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Poile aims for abolition of arbitration

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Old
12-20-2004, 10:00 AM
  #26
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Link ???
It really was the Polin who made that decision.....which was extremely shortsighted on his part.....The contract made Stevens the highest paid D and in the top 5 (maybe top 3) overall....Polin wanted no part of that. The shortsighted part was, by the begining of the following season Hatcher was making more $ than Stevens.....the horse was already out of the barn....they should have seen that and just signed Stevens

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12-20-2004, 10:09 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Link ???

Feel free not to believe me, but I'd love to see a link saying that it was expressly Polie's decision. It was around the time of the infamous limo incident.

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12-20-2004, 10:16 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Marshall
Feel free not to believe me, but I'd love to see a link saying that it was expressly Polie's decision. It was around the time of the infamous limo incident.
I wasn't saying that it wasn't Pollin's decison, was just looking to see if anyone had a link,

Like I said before, I wasn't ripping Poile for any individual decisions that he made, but for his entire ody of work. The Caps had some very goos teams during the 1980's and early 90's and Poile could never make the move that got them over the hump.

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12-20-2004, 10:17 AM
  #29
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Found a mention of it in a Post article.

"But in July 1990, his relationship with the Capitals was severed. Stevens signed a free agent offer sheet with St. Louis and Abe Pollin, Washington's owner at the time, opted not to match it. The Capitals received five first-round draft picks as compensation -- defensemen Sergei Gonchar and Brendan Witt were the only impact players from the bunch -- and a year later Stevens was on the move again. An arbitrator ruled that the defenseman would go to New Jersey as compensation for the Blues signing the Devils' budding power forward, Brendan Shanahan, to a free agent contract."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

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12-20-2004, 10:18 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I wasn't saying that it wasn't Pollin's decison, was just looking to see if anyone had a link,
My fault, read it totaly wrong. Sorry for the 'tude, it's been a goofy day.

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12-20-2004, 10:33 AM
  #31
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As a Cap fan for over 17 years I actually miss the Poile years, atleast they made the playoffs every year. One thing he did though was always trade proven talent for picks which really got on my nerves. The Caps used to have some of the best defensive corps in the league(Stevens/Hatcher/Langway/Cote/Johanson/Iafrate/Gonchar). Our D has been in a shambles the last 2 years.

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12-20-2004, 02:48 PM
  #32
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David Poile did not draft Scott Stevens.

In June 1982 the prior GM drafted Stevens - it may have been the interim GM Roger Crozier but I am guessing on that one. Anyway, then in September 1982, Poile was hired as GM either right before or during training camp. Five days later he traded Green and Walter for Langway, Englbom, Jarvis and Laughlin.

I thought Poile was very good generally at the draft in his early years with the Caps and then again in 1993 (getting Witt and Allison), but was very poor through most of the 1990s until he was fired. Toward the end he had a string of first rounders who never panned out. I remember late in the 1990s ESPN stated during a telecast that the Caps were worst in first round drafting, with something like only 4 out of 15 first rounders having made it to the NHL.

I thought he was also very good in trading, particularly getting Larry Murphy and Dave Christian for very little, but once again his trading seemed to not be as good in the mid to later 1990s.

As far as letting Stevens go, I think Poile would have kept Stevens if money was not an issue, but due to Pollin's tight purse-strings Poile had to convince Pollin that it made financial sense, and I remember Poile later saying in print in an article done by Dave Fay of the Wash Times that if he had to do it all over again he would have kept Stevens but at the time he did not think that salaries would escalate so quickly and so much right after the Stevens deal with the Blues.

Speaking of Pollin and money, I remember the Post reporting that Pollin nixed a Poile deal that would have been Selanne for Allison, Cote and Baumgartner due to the amount of Selanne's salary.

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12-20-2004, 04:03 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty
Speaking of Pollin and money, I remember the Post reporting that Pollin nixed a Poile deal that would have been Selanne for Allison, Cote and Baumgartner due to the amount of Selanne's salary.
This is true.....but I am 95% sure that the names were Allison and either Witt/Gonchar

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12-20-2004, 06:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IafrateWasGod
As a Cap fan for over 17 years I actually miss the Poile years, atleast they made the playoffs every year. One thing he did though was always trade proven talent for picks which really got on my nerves. The Caps used to have some of the best defensive corps in the league(Stevens/Hatcher/Langway/Cote/Johanson/Iafrate/Gonchar). Our D has been in a shambles the last 2 years.
To be fair, the reason the Caps defense ended up in a shambles is becaue Poile traded away so many first and second rounders, while moving young for old, and big for small . . . he was directed to win now and win cheap. It didn't work and the current Caps are paying for it.

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12-20-2004, 06:57 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter
To be fair, the reason the Caps defense ended up in a shambles is becaue Poile traded away so many first and second rounders
I would disagree......can you list some of these trades where Poile traded "so many first and second rounders"

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12-20-2004, 07:11 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
#1. In a "free market" a player would be able to offer he services to another team.
There are hundreds, if not thousands of teams around the world any player is completely free to offer his services to.

The only thing he can't do is offer his services to another team in the NHL, because he has promised not to.

It's the rules of work. You agree to certain things when you work for a business. In some jobs you can't publicly offer a political opinion. In other jobs any invention you develop on your own time belongs to the company. In other jobs, you can't work for a competitor even after you're no longer employed by your old company.

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12-20-2004, 07:14 PM
  #37
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Taking a quick look at the Caps draft record Poile's downfall seems to be the first round.

From 1983 to 1991 Kevin Hatcher was the only first round pick of note. Poile then have very good first rounds in 1992 & 93 - Gonchar, Witt, and Allison

Then from 1994 to 1996 was a complete disaster. Poile had 6 first round picks

Nolan Baumgartner - 48 NHL games
Alexander Kharlamov - 0 NHL games
Brad Church - 2 NHL games
Miika Elomo - 2 NHL games
Alex Volchkov - 3 NHL games
Jaroslav Svejkovsky - 113 NHL games


Last edited by John Flyers Fan: 12-20-2004 at 08:01 PM.
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12-20-2004, 07:15 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
There are hundreds, if not thousands of teams around the world any player is completely free to offer his services to.

The only thing he can't do is offer his services to another team in the NHL, because he has promised not to.
Yes, and that makes the NHL not a true "free market" system.

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12-20-2004, 07:57 PM
  #39
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12-20-2004, 08:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Yes, and that makes the NHL not a true "free market" system.
Of course it is. The player was free to choose whether to work for that company or not.

By your definition, there's not a single "free market" job in the world, because they *all* have restrictions and rules you must follow once you start working for the company.

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12-20-2004, 08:41 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
By your definition, there's not a single "free market" job in the world, because they *all* have restrictions and rules you must follow once you start working for the company.
Not true. In most industries you aren't "drafted" and don't have your rights held by one company for the next 13 years.

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12-20-2004, 09:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Not true. In most industries you aren't "drafted" and don't have your rights held by one company for the next 13 years.
Didn't the players have to "opt in" to be drafted? By opting in, they knew the rules and decided they were okay with them. If they were not okay with them, they could always choose to do something different...

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12-21-2004, 12:58 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
Didn't the players have to "opt in" to be drafted? By opting in, they knew the rules and decided they were okay with them. If they were not okay with them, they could always choose to do something different...
If you don't opt in, you can be a UFA and sign with any team, but that team can still hold your rights up to the UFA age, regardless of being draft. Basically, you choose one company that can determine your future for the next 10-12 years (there's also Group V UFA, under the league average and 10+ years with team).

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12-21-2004, 01:00 AM
  #44
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It seems to me that a lot of players would choose not to opt in...and wait and sign with the team of their choice for the money of their choice. If you're good enough, it seems like you know you'll get signed.

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12-21-2004, 01:13 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
...but I agree with most that Poile is one of the more underrated GMs in the league.
Some of you might not remember, but when he took over as GM of the Caps, they were the worst team in NHL history. But David Poile, on less than a shoe string budget, always iced tough hard-hitting teams and had a knack for getting good solid players who played the game with exceptional heart. What he could have accomplished had he an owner who cared one whitt about the franchise could have been incredible. Abe Polin never let him even make a trade at the deadline, not once. Polin cast Scott Stevens aside because he wanted a million a year for three years ("just because other owners are stupid with their money, doesn't mean I have to be.")The tragedy of Poile's career is that the Caps of the mid 80's, arguably the best defensive team in history, with Rod Langway, Scott Stevens, Larry Murphy, Kevin Hatcher and Al Iafrate, didn't get to play the Greatest offensive team, Gretzky's Oilers, for the Cup. The Caps were the only team that routinely (albeit 3 times a year) shut the mighty Oilers down. Sigh. Sometimes sports is a cruel concatenation of events that could have been...If the NHL wants it's fans back, and wants to bring back the hockey that we all fell in love with, they could do no better than making David Poile commish.
-HckyFght!

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12-21-2004, 08:48 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HckyFght
Abe Polin never let him even make a trade at the deadline, not once.

-HckyFght!
That isnt really true.....off the top of my head players they traded for at or near the deadline

Ciccarelli
Rouse
Johansson
Liut
Juneau
Reekie
Oates
Tocchet
Ranford

But without question Polin was aware of the money he spent....and many decisions were based off of that

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12-21-2004, 11:01 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Marshall
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12-21-2004, 11:52 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
That isnt really true.....off the top of my head players they traded for at or near the deadline

Ciccarelli
Rouse
Johansson
Liut
Juneau
Reekie
Oates
Tocchet
Ranford

But without question Polin was aware of the money he spent....and many decisions were based off of that
If memory serves, the late 90's deal for Ranford, Toccchet and Oates was the first and only deadline deal in the Poile era. Oates missed the first game, we lost, missed the playoffs and Poile was fired. He was shocked and was reported to have said, "I have Capitals tatooed on my ass!" But admittedly, I Rumplestiltskin on this topic. There some early and mid season swaps, like Hatcher for Tinordi, but not at the deadline in preperation for a playoff run.
Pray that your team never is owned by a basketball man...oh, that's right, the league is run by a basketball man!
-HckyFght!

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12-21-2004, 11:55 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HckyFght
If memory serves, the late 90's deal for Ranford, Toccchet and Oates was the first and only deadline deal in the Poile era. Oates missed the first game, we lost, missed the playoffs and Poile was fired. He was shocked and was reported to have said, "I have Capitals tatooed on my ass!" But admittedly, I Rumplestiltskin on this topic. There some early and mid season swaps, like Hatcher for Tinordi, but not at the deadline in preperation for a playoff run.
Pray that your team never is owned by a basketball man...oh, that's right, the league is run by a basketball man!
-HckyFght!
The Dino/Rouse for Gartner/Murphy trade was a deadline deal for sure
Liut was at most a couple days before the deadline
Juneau for Iafrate was also a dealine deal for sure

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