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Off-Season Discussion - Part IV (Cap Info in Post 1)

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Old
05-23-2012, 03:30 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I know defense is our biggest need but it's more system than players. So if I could have one player it would be Parise. He is a game changer & a unreal competitor. I think he will stay in NJ though.
Parise is a poor mans Crosby.

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05-23-2012, 03:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Given the uncertainty of the next CBA, I would caution against spending up to the $70M cap. I'm sure Shero feels the sane way too.
Well, that's a chicken and egg thing. I don't think any GM will spend up to 70M this summer necessarily; they won't do that until the CBA is done. But meantime they could still get within a couple million and probably feel pretty good about it. Worse comes to worst and you keep the big signing and cut loose a couple guys that are easily replaced (relatively speaking) like Kennedy and Niskanen (3.5M right there), replacing them with rookie contracts (maybe 1.6M). If things got really egregiously bad, you trade Michalek or Orpik (if he's not improved health-wise) and start developing Morrow / Despres / whoever is next in line among our D prospects.

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05-23-2012, 03:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
Parise is a poor mans Crosby.
or a rich man's Staal.

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05-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #54
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Parise is neither a poor man's Crosby nor a rich man's Staal. He's a rich man's Parise. One of a kind.

The guy isn't comparable to either one individually. A better way to say it is that he has a lot of Crosby's offensive skill and instinct, matched with some of Staal's defensive skills and instincts. Consequently he's every bit as valuable to whichever team he plays on as either one of the other guys. Actually more valuable than Staal (at least for now - unless and until Staal busts out offensively and starts potting 40G seasons).

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05-23-2012, 04:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Parise is neither a poor man's Crosby nor a rich man's Staal. He's a rich man's Parise. One of a kind.

The guy isn't comparable to either one individually. A better way to say it is that he has a lot of Crosby's offensive skill and instinct, matched with some of Staal's defensive skills and instincts. Consequently he's every bit as valuable to whichever team he plays on as either one of the other guys. Actually more valuable than Staal (at least for now - unless and until Staal busts out offensively and starts potting 40G seasons).
fair enough, but he should never be referred to as a poor man's anything. There is not a winger in the world I'd rather have on this team.

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05-23-2012, 04:18 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fair enough, but he should never be referred to as a poor man's anything. There is not a winger in the world I'd rather have on this team.
I agree with you Qumosabe.

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05-23-2012, 04:23 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fair enough, but he should never be referred to as a poor man's anything. There is not a winger in the world I'd rather have on this team.
I'd take Corey Perry as my ideal winger for this team. Superior goal scorer, RHS, netfront guy on the PP, big body that can create his own space and offense.

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05-23-2012, 04:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'd take Corey Perry as my ideal winger for this team. Superior goal scorer, RHS, netfront guy on the PP, big body that can create his own space and offense.
Perry is one of the few I could understand an argument for. I still take Parise.

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05-23-2012, 04:26 PM
  #59
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News Flash......bleep bleep blah bleep....This just in, having a deep team wins championships, not having 6 superstars. Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Boston all won largely because of their 3rd lines and total team depth. Now back to your regular scheduled dreaming......bleep bleep blah bleep

Froods, no ****! I was just saying one need is more needed than the other.

Signing another winger doesn't address the need at hand because, most scenarios I'm seeing is loading the team up with our rookies on defense while adding another top end forward.

Depth wins championships, and running with 1/3 of your defense with rookies is not gearing up for a potential run right now. That's a 2 to 3 year window realistically. The Pens need to readjust back to a more balanced defensive unit and rookies are not gonna take us to the promise land anytime soon. They need the right vets, rookies, regulars mix.

It comes down to tuning the defense by one player.

Orpik, Letang
Niskanen, Michalek
*Bigger Vet*, Despres
Engelland/Strait, ect...

The Pens are too heavy on the D-side of things and I can see 2/3 D-man prospects gone to move up in the draft.

I see the team signing a larger vet who can be a physical presence on the back end.

Martin will be a part of a hockey trade if they are to move him at all.

They have so many assets that they're sure to be losing some for nothing. It's sure as **** a cluster ****.

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05-23-2012, 04:32 PM
  #60
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martin gone
nisky walks

Who i would like more, Staal or Parise is very tough. Both play very complete games.

As much as I loveJ Staal, and believe we go a glimpse of the beast he will become this year and in the playoffs.....I just don't believe the 3 center mode will work as well as stronger top lines, younger bottom 6 with more defined rolls of 3rd line shutdown, 4th line dump and bang.

If Shero is a genious he will land both and potentially trade another forward.

Parise Crosby Kunitz
Staal Malkin Neal

He will also dump Martin and use despres and morrow on the back end.

I have said before and again. We need the best use of every cap dollar. Having Martin Z and Brooks prevents that. We went best available and drafted tons of D. They need to play, and money needs to be spent where we didn't draft. Drafting D and signing D is essentially eliminating the usefulness of the draft and ELCs.

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05-23-2012, 10:25 PM
  #61
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Man, this is going to be one long off-season

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05-23-2012, 11:46 PM
  #62
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If I'm NJ I'm throwing every penny I got at him. You can't replace a player like him.

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05-24-2012, 12:27 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
I seriously doubt we get parise considering how deep new Jersey went this year. Who knows maybe if brodeur retires or moves to another team then he comes here.
Oh, I don't think we have a realistic shot at Parisé, he is just the one player I would want above anyone else. I think he could be Hossa x2 for us. Remember how good Sid was with Hossa? I think he'd be way better with Parisé.

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05-24-2012, 01:30 AM
  #64
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Capgeek says McNeill's contract has a cap hit of 558,333. First two years 560k, third year 555k.
Many thanks. Had completely forgotten to check up on that.

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05-24-2012, 06:56 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Oh, I don't think we have a realistic shot at Parisé, he is just the one player I would want above anyone else. I think he could be Hossa x2 for us. Remember how good Sid was with Hossa? I think he'd be way better with Parisé.
They would be money infront and behind the net. I could see Sid putting up 140+ and parise 95+

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05-24-2012, 07:40 AM
  #66
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So we're not going to be able to keep Staal but will be able to pay for Parise? How does that work?

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05-24-2012, 07:55 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
So we're not going to be able to keep Staal but will be able to pay for Parise? How does that work?
Because not keeping Staal might not be a pure money issue; at least not in the "being able to afford him" sense. I haven't heard many people say we can't afford to keep Staal. I assume all of this is based on him leaving because he wants a bigger role or us trading him because he wants more than he's worth to us. I'm basing anything about him leaving on one of those two scenarios

1. He wants to be a top 2 center so he wants to leave. In this case we are trading him because he wants to go somewhere else.

2. He is willing to stay as either a top 6 wing or 3rd line C but wants 6+ mil. We could afford to give it to him, but there are better options for top 6 wing or 3C than paying Staal 6 million. I would rather pay Parise 7+ mil than Staal 6 mil as a top 6 wing, and I would rather not pay 6+ million for a 3C. Basically, I think he is worth more money as a 1C or 2C than he is as a wing or 3C. This is still doable because I don't think he'd be a bad signing at 6.25mil or so. If we can't get a damn good return for him, I think he still gets re-signed in this scenario.

It is certainly a possibility that he stays for a reasonable price. Aside from an overpayment in a trade or Parise signing with us, this is what I want to happen. But in that scenario there is no discussion to be had and this is an internet message board.

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05-24-2012, 07:57 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
So we're not going to be able to keep Staal but will be able to pay for Parise? How does that work?
The question hasn't been whether we could sign Staal, but whether Staal will sign here.

I'd take Parise over Staal. No knock on Staal. I love Staal. I'd still take Parise over Staal.

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05-24-2012, 07:59 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Because not keeping Staal might not be a pure money issue; at least not in the "being able to afford him" sense. I haven't heard many people say we can't afford to keep Staal. I assume all of this is based on him leaving because he wants a bigger role or us trading him because he wants more than he's worth to us. I'm basing anything about him leaving on one of those two scenarios

1. He wants to be a top 2 center so he wants to leave. In this case we are trading him because he wants to go somewhere else.

2. He is willing to stay as either a top 6 wing or 3rd line C but wants 6+ mil. We could afford to give it to him, but there are better options for top 6 wing or 3C than paying Staal 6 million. I would rather pay Parise 7+ mil than Staal 6 mil as a top 6 wing, and I would rather not pay 6+ million for a 3C. This is still doable because I don't think he'd be a bad signing at 6.25mil or so. If we can't get a damn good return for him, I think he still gets re-signed in this scenario.

It is certainly a possibility that he stays for a reasonable price. Aside from an overpayment in a trade or Parise signing with us, this is what I want to happen. But in that scenario there is no discussion to be had and this is an internet message board.
"IF" he wants to stay, he'll take less. "IF" he does't want to stay, he needs to be moved sat.

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05-24-2012, 08:27 AM
  #70
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Are we a team that can afford a 70 milion $ payroll ?

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05-24-2012, 09:02 AM
  #71
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"IF" he wants to stay, he'll take less. "IF" he does't want to stay, he needs to be moved sat.
but how much is less for him? I could see less than his FA value still putting him above 6 mil. There's a point where you are asking a guy to take too much less and he might have to leave even IF he wants to stay. That lower 6 mil mark is the highest I'd want to pay him. And that wouldn't be my first choice.

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Are we a team that can afford a 70 milion $ payroll ?
that is a good question.

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05-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #72
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So we're not going to be able to keep Staal but will be able to pay for Parise? How does that work?
It's not an affordability question but a question of whether Staal will be happy to continue on as a 3rd line C here (even part time), knowing that he could be a 1st line C on some teams and 2nd line on virtually all teams other than ours, Boston's and LA's. He might prefer to take the same or even slightly less money to play somewhere else if he can be a Top 2 guy 100% of the time. Also by cutting Martin loose (which I don't think is a given but is probable) we free up another $5M in addition to whatever room the new Cap gives us. So money-wise we can keep Staal.


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Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
Are we a team that can afford a 70 milion $ payroll ?
It's a valid question (how much we can spend before we're over-spending) that I've not seen a clear answer to. Obviously the team is a profitable one now but I'm not sure where the line in the sand is. At some point we would need a self-imposed cap, unlike the Rangers et al. Although if it's over $60M it might not matter for the next few years. You should be able to spend $60M+ and remain a top team in this league, even if someone else spent $70M. Hockey isn't baseball or basketball. You can't buy championships as easily.

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05-24-2012, 09:54 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by gopens66 View Post
The question hasn't been whether we could sign Staal, but whether Staal will sign here.

I'd take Parise over Staal. No knock on Staal. I love Staal. I'd still take Parise over Staal.
Especially if the difference in salary is only around $1M (~$6M for Staal, and ~$7M for Parise).

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05-24-2012, 10:00 AM
  #74
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Especially if the difference in salary is only around $1M (~$6M for Staal, and ~$7M for Parise).
the problem with that is that we would probably want to trade Staal before we had the chance to sign Parise. Like I've said, It's not the most likely scenario certainly, but its my favorite. But if we are getting Parise as a FA, that would change the kind of return we would look for pretty drastically.

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05-24-2012, 10:49 AM
  #75
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I wonder if Pittsburgh is still the favorable landing spot that it has been in the past. Sure we have the greatest 2 players, and Blysma is a players coach.

But we have had 3 consecutive early exits from the playoffs. Parise is Captain of a team that looks like it's going to the SCF unless he just hates it there I can't see him leaving, if he did leave I'd hope Pittsburgh is on his short list

Before people would come here for less money because they thought they could win a cup here. That premise hasn't held up to well over the last 3 years, so not sure if we can get the Yinzer discount anymore from free agents.

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