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Off-Season Discussion - Part IV (Cap Info in Post 1)

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Old
06-10-2012, 12:23 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I still am trying to figure out why Crosby chose $300,000 more, if the story is true. If he is going to give the Pens a break, why would the notoriously superstitious Crosby give them a $5 million per break but not go the extra $300,000 to get the figure to match his number?
It's not a set amount that Crosby chose 9 mil......it's pretty much just speculation that it's going to be in that neighbourhood. Could easily be 10 mil or 8.7 again or who knows. No one will really have in depth details til it happens in early July.

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06-10-2012, 12:26 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
The thing with Suter and Parise for me is that, yes, they would both be pretty decent upgrades over Staal, but in giving them the money they are looking at...you're really putting a lot your eggs in only a couple baskets. Say Staal signs for 5.5, and Parise or Suter sign at 6.5. I'd question if Staal and that extra million is more beneficial to the team as whole. I obviously don't know the answer, but it is something worth considering.
It's a game of duo's. We have Malkin-Neal, now we need a Crosby-______. The third guys are just your best plug in guys, in this case, Kunitz and Dupuis fill those roles well.

Depends if Staal and his goals of becoming a relied upon player for offense comes true. You can want that role...heck I want that role!...but it doesn't mean it pans out. If we resign Staal, especially at a high cap hit like $5.5-6.5 then we need the Staal thats gonna step up. With that, he needs to be willing to accept a wing position because...on the Penguins...he's a 3C. Painful truth. Best part of him accepting something like that is if Crosby or Malkin ever go down, you have your awesome 2C waiting.

If he's not willing to accept the wing role...then you have to look elsewhere and get the wing that Crosby deserves. Parise is gonna hit the market...not to often someone like him does (especially someone well suited to play with Crosby), same as Staal. You have to make a run at him. You can't afford to lose Staal and not replace him with someone significant. Something like Sutter + 8th ain't gonna cut it. You need something more if we are going to continue to contend through Crosby and Malkin's prime.

Crosby-Parise
Malkin-Neal

The cap is going up, if we trade Martin and Staal, don't resign Sullivan and Asham...we have a good chunk of change to take a run at Parise or Suter or some other depth guys. We haven't done jack snot since 09...Shero needs to get aggressive.

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06-10-2012, 01:05 PM
  #928
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Any chunk of change would be used by Ray Shero to sign Jordan Staal first then after that is accomplished look elsewhere for other additions.

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06-10-2012, 01:30 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
It's a game of duo's. We have Malkin-Neal, now we need a Crosby-______. The third guys are just your best plug in guys, in this case, Kunitz and Dupuis fill those roles well.

Depends if Staal and his goals of becoming a relied upon player for offense comes true. You can want that role...heck I want that role!...but it doesn't mean it pans out. If we resign Staal, especially at a high cap hit like $5.5-6.5 then we need the Staal thats gonna step up. With that, he needs to be willing to accept a wing position because...on the Penguins...he's a 3C. Painful truth. Best part of him accepting something like that is if Crosby or Malkin ever go down, you have your awesome 2C waiting.

If he's not willing to accept the wing role...then you have to look elsewhere and get the wing that Crosby deserves. Parise is gonna hit the market...not to often someone like him does (especially someone well suited to play with Crosby), same as Staal. You have to make a run at him. You can't afford to lose Staal and not replace him with someone significant. Something like Sutter + 8th ain't gonna cut it. You need something more if we are going to continue to contend through Crosby and Malkin's prime.

Crosby-Parise
Malkin-Neal

The cap is going up, if we trade Martin and Staal, don't resign Sullivan and Asham...we have a good chunk of change to take a run at Parise or Suter or some other depth guys. We haven't done jack snot since 09...Shero needs to get aggressive.
I would argue that Jordan Staal at 5.5 (which is what I think the max would be that he re-signs here for), and then having a million+ to throw around elsewhere in the lineup is a smarter decision. I wouldn't turn down Parise, but I'm just saying.

I think Staal will sign for 5, and Parise will sign at 7, which is sizable. Of course that's just speculation, but the savings between the two would encompass Geno's raise, and a good chunk of Letang's, if not damn near all of it.

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06-10-2012, 01:33 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
The cap is going up, if we trade Martin and Staal, don't resign Sullivan and Asham...we have a good chunk of change to take a run at Parise or Suter or some other depth guys. We haven't done jack snot since 09...Shero needs to get aggressive.
Trading Martin alone would give us $13 million (if the reported 70.3 million cap is true, which certainly could change). That alone is enough to sign Parise, a top 4 replacement for Martin and a bottom 6 forward, along with our RFA's.

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06-10-2012, 02:59 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
Trading Martin alone would give us $13 million (if the reported 70.3 million cap is true, which certainly could change). That alone is enough to sign Parise, a top 4 replacement for Martin and a bottom 6 forward, along with our RFA's.
Why do people keep assuming that if the cap indeed does go up to $70 million that Parise's estimated signing amount would remain the same? If it does go up to that amount, expect the amount to sign Parise would go up similarly. If it was $7 million expect money similar to Crosby's $8.7 million. Unless he wants to sign for less. But there will be teams out there giving him more money with many with more cap space.

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Old
06-10-2012, 03:17 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I would argue that Jordan Staal at 5.5 (which is what I think the max would be that he re-signs here for), and then having a million+ to throw around elsewhere in the lineup is a smarter decision. I wouldn't turn down Parise, but I'm just saying.

I think Staal will sign for 5, and Parise will sign at 7, which is sizable. Of course that's just speculation, but the savings between the two would encompass Geno's raise, and a good chunk of Letang's, if not damn near all of it.
I am on the fence about it. Let's for sake of conversation say we have two options: Staal + 1 depth player or Parise and no Staal.

It would depend greatly on how Staal performs. Parise has an excellent track record and would be a great match for Crosby. I think it would be safe to say that Parise with Crosby would put up points than Staal no matter where he was in the lineup. So I give Parise the points there.

But if Crosby or Malkin go down...Parise can't slide into center like Staal would be able to. So there I give Staal the points.

Parise is a heck of a pk'er but then again so is Staal so they are evenly matched there.

I guess it comes down to if the extra depth player we were able to pick up closes the gap and helps us. Is the sum of him and Staal better than Parise? Is Staal willing to play wing if he wants the bigger role? Do we run the 3C model still?

Lots of questions to be answered.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.850m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.250m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) / Brian Strait ($0.750m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,231,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,068,333

Signing Parise for a 5-6 yr $6.5mil per deal and dumping Martin would still give us $3mil in cap space.

Next year we give Staal a raise to $6mil. We do not resign TK, Adams, or Cooke. Replace them with Tangradi, Bennett, Jeffery, and sign some other depth guys who will be avaiable. Hopefully by the time the next year roles around, Tangradi can replace Kunitz.

I'm not too worried about defense as Morrow, Despres, Harrington are coming up...

Parise-Crosby remain a fixture. Stick Dupuis on there.
Malkin-Neal remain a fixture. Stick Tangradi on there.
Staal could be slotted in with either if Jeffery or a signing are able to secure the 3C job.

A realistic lineup could look like:

Parise-Crosby-Bennett
Staal-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Jeffery-Dupuis
Wing-Vitale-Wing

Letang-Despres
Morrow-Michalek
Niskanen-Harrington

Even if the cap goes down a little...we still have room to fit Parise in whether or not we keep Staal.

EDIT: Something I didn't address is Letang. We release Orpik and use his salary for Letang. Puts him in the $6mil range.

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Old
06-10-2012, 03:24 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I am on the fence about it. Let's for sake of conversation say we have two options: Staal + 1 depth player or Parise and no Staal.

It would depend greatly on how Staal performs. Parise has an excellent track record and would be a great match for Crosby. I think it would be safe to say that Parise with Crosby would put up points than Staal no matter where he was in the lineup. So I give Parise the points there.

But if Crosby or Malkin go down...Parise can't slide into center like Staal would be able to. So there I give Staal the points.

Parise is a heck of a pk'er but then again so is Staal so they are evenly matched there.

I guess it comes down to if the extra depth player we were able to pick up closes the gap and helps us. Is the sum of him and Staal better than Parise? Is Staal willing to play wing if he wants the bigger role? Do we run the 3C model still?

Lots of questions to be answered.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($6.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.850m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.675m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.250m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) / Brian Strait ($0.750m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,231,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,068,333

Signing Parise for a 5-6 yr $6.5mil per deal and dumping Martin would still give us $3mil in cap space.

Next year we give Staal a raise to $6mil. We do not resign TK, Adams, or Cooke. Replace them with Tangradi, Bennett, Jeffery, and sign some other depth guys who will be avaiable. Hopefully by the time the next year roles around, Tangradi can replace Kunitz.

I'm not too worried about defense as Morrow, Despres, Harrington are coming up...

Parise-Crosby remain a fixture. Stick Dupuis on there.
Malkin-Neal remain a fixture. Stick Tangradi on there.
Staal could be slotted in with either if Jeffery or a signing are able to secure the 3C job.

A realistic lineup could look like:

Parise-Crosby-Bennett
Staal-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Jeffery-Dupuis
Wing-Vitale-Wing

Letang-Despres
Morrow-Michalek
Niskanen-Harrington

Even if the cap goes down a little...we still have room to fit Parise in whether or not we keep Staal.

EDIT: Something I didn't address is Letang. We release Orpik and use his salary for Letang. Puts him in the $6mil range.
And your breakdown shows another problem I have also. That blueline you got there is very green, and I don't think Shero would ever go for it. You're sacrificing defense for offense, and it should be the other way around with how this team just played in the playoffs.

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Old
06-10-2012, 04:03 PM
  #934
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Parise for 6.5? The guy is gonna want to get paid & there are plenty of teams willing to do it.

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06-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Parise for 6.5? The guy is gonna want to get paid & there are plenty of teams willing to do it.
So give him a Hossa contract. He'll get paid and still have a great cap hit.

He and Suter will both end up in Detroit, though. Bank on it. They have 18 guys on their roster right now, then have roughly 26 million dollars to play with. Even if they give both of those guys 8 million, which they won't, they'd still have 10 million to sign a few guys.

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06-10-2012, 05:04 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I hate that argument .
I do too that's why I quickly rephrased / requested verification if that was true or just BS / typical HFB speculation. Only if he was a true BFF would it matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Kunitz, morrow, bennett, and a 1st for marian hossa
I should infract you for this. I would trade Kunitz and a 1st for him (this year, not in a strong draft year) and that's it. The guy only has a few years left before he starts slowing down and he's already injury prone. Adding great prospects (especially Morrow) into that mix is nuts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Parise for 6.5? The guy is gonna want to get paid & there are plenty of teams willing to do it.
Yah that is nuts. He's making $7.5-$8M IMO.

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06-10-2012, 05:10 PM
  #937
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How many years away are bennett and morrow?

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06-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  #938
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Bennett probably has a shot to get a few games in year after next, make the team in camp the following (3). IMO Morrow has a shot of racking up a few games as an injury replacement this upcoming season and making it full time the following (.5 - 1). Truthfully if Bylsma had any cahones, he could probably make the team this year along with Despres. Start developing those two the way Philly has taken a chance on Couturier and Schenn.

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06-10-2012, 05:17 PM
  #939
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I think with Bennett it all depends what he does in the AHL in the first 25-30 games. If he starts out really hot, which I don't expect, he could certainly be called up half way through the season to gauge where he is.

I have the opinion that Morrow has as good a shot of making this roster as any of our other defensemen, especially considering that he brings the PP dimension and no one else does.

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06-10-2012, 05:20 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Bennett probably has a shot to get a few games in year after next, make the team in camp the following (3). IMO Morrow has a shot of racking up a few games as an injury replacement this upcoming season and making it full time the following (.5 - 1). Truthfully if Bylsma had any cahones, he could probably make the team this year along with Despres. Start developing those two the way Philly has taken a chance on Couturier and Schenn.
IMO, i think bennett is 1 year away. I heard he gained serious weight since being drafted and is up to 212. He's got some good size and i can only see him in the ahl for one year with his size now and the skill set he has. Great 1 on 1 player.

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06-10-2012, 05:30 PM
  #941
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Andrei Kostitsyn isn't coming back to to Nashville..

Thoughts?

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06-10-2012, 05:33 PM
  #942
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Andrei Kostitsyn isn't coming back to to Nashville..

Thoughts?
No thanks.

Would have been a decent rental at the deadline last year, no interest in him during free agency, IMO.

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06-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And your breakdown shows another problem I have also. That blueline you got there is very green, and I don't think Shero would ever go for it. You're sacrificing defense for offense, and it should be the other way around with how this team just played in the playoffs.
Those 7 D-men won us 2 more playoff games this year than with Martin in the lineup.

Despres may not be on the opening roster, but I won't shed a tear if martin isn't and Niskanen replaces him.

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06-10-2012, 05:50 PM
  #944
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Jordan staal+ tk to wild for devin setoguchi, coyle, 7th overall.
Paul martin for a 2nd round pick to whomever
Sign parise for 6.5-7 million
sign allan
sign damien brunner
Penguins lineup:
parise-crosby-setoguchi
neal-malkin-kunitz
coyle-jeffrey-brunner
cooke-vitale-sill

Letang-michalek
orpik-Allan
despres-niskanen

Note:with the seventh overall pick we take morgan rielly. That means we have despres, morrow, letang, harrington, and rielly in the future on the back end.

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Old
06-10-2012, 06:06 PM
  #945
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Yohe just tweeted that Asham really wants to come back to Pittsburgh. I say you do it. You really want those kind of guys.

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06-10-2012, 06:16 PM
  #946
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Yohe just tweeted that Asham really wants to come back to Pittsburgh. I say you do it. You really want those kind of guys.
I really hope they re-sign him.

Quote:
Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib
Just spoke with impending free agent Arron Asham. He really wants to stay in Pittsburgh. More to come shortly.
Quote:
Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib
Asham: "I definitely want to stay here. I want to win a Stanley Cup and I think we've got the horses to do it here."

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06-10-2012, 06:29 PM
  #947
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I'd be okay with Asham coming back assuming it was the same or lower price than before. The only problem I see with him coming back...is that it keeps guys like Jeffery and Tangradi in the minors for another year (for the most part).

He didn't have that great of a season either...love his grit and his fighting though...

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06-10-2012, 06:33 PM
  #948
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Kunitz Malkin Neal
UFA/Sullivan Crosby Dupuis
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Jeffrey Vitale Adams
Tangradi

Not sure where Asham fits. He fills a need as a tough guy but is also getting older, battling more injuries/concussions and is naturally declining a bit with age. I really think we need to get younger and go with guys like Jeffrey Vitale Tangradi. I wouldn't even mind Adams being gone. Bring in a tough guy on the cheap (maybe even a two-way deal) for the rivalry games.

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06-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  #949
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Its hard to tell how close they are without seeing them play at the pro level. The first couple of months into the AHL season will give us a real good look into how long before we can start penciling them in.

As for Asham I don't want him back. He doesn't have enough speed, his conditioning is bad, & we can do better on the 4th line. He wasn't the same player this year as he was in years past. I think he is starting to slow already.

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06-10-2012, 06:40 PM
  #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Kunitz Malkin Neal
UFA/Sullivan Crosby Dupuis
Cooke Staal Kennedy
Jeffrey Vitale Adams
Tangradi

Not sure where Asham fits. He fills a need as a tough guy but is also getting older, battling more injuries/concussions and is naturally declining a bit with age. I really think we need to get younger and go with guys like Jeffrey Vitale Tangradi. I wouldn't even mind Adams being gone. Bring in a tough guy on the cheap (maybe even a two-way deal) for the rivalry games.
....and when things get ugly?? Dustin Jeffrey is the answer

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