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Off-Season Discussion - Part IV (Cap Info in Post 1)

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Old
05-24-2012, 11:56 AM
  #76
froods
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I do think there is a reason Parise has not signed yet. Something is up there.

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05-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by vikingGoalie View Post
I wonder if Pittsburgh is still the favorable landing spot that it has been in the past. Sure we have the greatest 2 players, and Blysma is a players coach.

But we have had 3 consecutive early exits from the playoffs. Parise is Captain of a team that looks like it's going to the SCF unless he just hates it there I can't see him leaving, if he did leave I'd hope Pittsburgh is on his short list

Before people would come here for less money because they thought they could win a cup here. That premise hasn't held up to well over the last 3 years, so not sure if we can get the Yinzer discount anymore from free agents.
Well, you have a point, but you have to consider why we lost the past 3 playoff series.

In 2010, the Pens were coming off of back to back SCF appearances, that and the team lost a good shutdown D pair in Gill-Scuderi. We signed Jay McKee and IMO he was great, but Shero brought in Leopold at the TD and he was on the 3rd D pair with Gogo and we benched McKee. When McKee played in the playoffs after Sutton knocked out Leopold, we won games, when Leopold came back, we lost games. I'm not saying it was Leopold's fault, but we should have kept a true shutdown D in there instead of a 3rd D pair of PMD's. That, and the team just looked lost, Fedotenko wasn't playing like he could, Ponikarovsky didn't play great as a Penguin, guys like Guerin and Gonchar looked tired. I think Geno was on a slump, team just didn't look like they wanted it.

In 2011, it's obvious. No Crosby or Malkin for offensive firepower, our 1st line was Neal-Letestu-Kovalev, Neal wasn't scoring, Kovalev was done, Letestu is a bottom 6 center. We also didn't have Matt Cooke, a good defensive forward and one of our best PKers. I give the Pens credit for going to Game 7 with that lineup, even though they were up 3-1, Roloson was great that series.

In 2012, nothing really needs to be said, we lost, we had our full lineup and the whole team (with the exception of a few players) just flopped, didn't play playoff hockey, didn't even play the hockey they played earlier in the season when they went on those long winning streaks.

I do think players want to come here for a chance at the Cup, and let's face it, last offseason the Penguins were the favorite. I think the Penguins are fully capable of winning the Stanley Cup with their current lineup, they just have to play like it.

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05-24-2012, 12:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Well, you have a point, but you have to consider why we lost the past 3 playoff series.

In 2010, the Pens were coming off of back to back SCF appearances, that and the team lost a good shutdown D pair in Gill-Scuderi. We signed Jay McKee and IMO he was great, but Shero brought in Leopold at the TD and he was on the 3rd D pair with Gogo and we benched McKee. When McKee played in the playoffs after Sutton knocked out Leopold, we won games, when Leopold came back, we lost games. I'm not saying it was Leopold's fault, but we should have kept a true shutdown D in there instead of a 3rd D pair of PMD's. That, and the team just looked lost, Fedotenko wasn't playing like he could, Ponikarovsky didn't play great as a Penguin, guys like Guerin and Gonchar looked tired. I think Geno was on a slump, team just didn't look like they wanted it.

In 2011, it's obvious. No Crosby or Malkin for offensive firepower, our 1st line was Neal-Letestu-Kovalev, Neal wasn't scoring, Kovalev was done, Letestu is a bottom 6 center. We also didn't have Matt Cooke, a good defensive forward and one of our best PKers. I give the Pens credit for going to Game 7 with that lineup, even though they were up 3-1, Roloson was great that series.

In 2012, nothing really needs to be said, we lost, we had our full lineup and the whole team (with the exception of a few players) just flopped, didn't play playoff hockey, didn't even play the hockey they played earlier in the season when they went on those long winning streaks.

I do think players want to come here for a chance at the Cup, and let's face it, last offseason the Penguins were the favorite. I think the Penguins are fully capable of winning the Stanley Cup with their current lineup, they just have to play like it.
I agree. I hope that after the dust settles and management has time to assess the team, all the talk of overhauling will come to an end. I do believe some changes will be made, but giving away talent isn't going to improve our changes any.

The real question to me is, why didn't they play the way they are capable? There did seem to be some of the urgency, and team toughness missing, and since we are not privy to the locker room and team dynamics, we'll probably never know.

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05-24-2012, 01:13 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
I do think there is a reason Parise has not signed yet. Something is up there.
Aren't the Devils having financial issues? I seem to recall reading something about the NHL advancing them their profit sharing to meet payroll at one point. The last I heard, the team had lined up some sort of fix, I think a new investor, I'm not sure, though. So, maybe that's why there haven't been any talks ... the team needs to know what's going on with their monies first. Haven't really seen much about it the last couple of months, and you'd have to think going to the ECF has been a boost for them financially.

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05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
I do think there is a reason Parise has not signed yet. Something is up there.
Devils are bankrupt due to having to pay banks back for loans to build 'The Rock".

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05-24-2012, 01:26 PM
  #81
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Devils are bankrupt due to having to pay banks back for loans to build 'The Rock".



???

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05-24-2012, 01:48 PM
  #82
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CBJ's Alexandre Giroux signed a 2 year KHL ...

Man, I'm resisting the urge to start a 'Giroux Signs 2-Year Deal With KHL' thread on the main boards ... Just imagine the meltdown Trolololololololol

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05-24-2012, 01:54 PM
  #83
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I loved Jay McKee. I think he was constantly playing through injuries which effected his play. He was looking pretty slow towards the end.

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05-24-2012, 03:43 PM
  #84
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I don't expect any major changes, but we can't afford to be pissing away prime years of Sid and Geno.

A shakeup of the locker room would do wonders IMO. It's not all on DB, Martin and Fleury. We didn't execute and were without desperation aside from a game 4 blowout and Fleury standing on his head in game 5.

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05-24-2012, 04:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I don't expect any major changes, but we can't afford to be pissing away prime years of Sid and Geno.

A shakeup of the locker room would do wonders IMO. It's not all on DB, Martin and Fleury. We didn't execute and were without desperation aside from a game 4 blowout and Fleury standing on his head in game 5.
To be fair, technically those two have yet to hit their prime.

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05-24-2012, 04:50 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
To be fair, technically those two have yet to hit their prime.
is there a official age for players to hit their prime? Don't superstar type guys tend to peak earlier than most players?

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05-24-2012, 05:00 PM
  #87
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I should rephrase, pissing away Sid/Geno's mid twenties is foolish. They could very well be the best in the league ten years from now, but I'd rather not bet on it.

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05-24-2012, 06:05 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
is there a official age for players to hit their prime? Don't superstar type guys tend to peak earlier than most players?
That really is an interesting question. IMO it doesn't have as much to do with whether or not a player is a "superstar." To me, it has more do with a player's body type, (at what age they "fill out") and/or the player's work ethic.

When Geno came into the league, he was 20 years old, but still had the body of a teenager. I think he weighed somewhere around 185 pounds, which for a 6'3 frame, is a bit slight. He's put on about 20-25 pounds since then, so he's still growing into his body. He's still getting stronger, and this past year, you could really start to see that. Combine that factor with his newfound work-ethic during the off-season, and I really think this upcoming season we'll begin to see him in his prime.

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05-24-2012, 06:26 PM
  #89
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I would say that superstar players just have more prime years than others either because their bodies developed earlier or because they just have enough skill to overcome their lack of body maturation. They'll stay in their primes at least as long as the average hockey player, barring injury of course.

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05-24-2012, 06:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Solushun View Post
A list of UFA goalies in the off season:

Ellis, Turco, Leggio, MacIntyre, Peters, Emery, Huet, Desjardins, Dekanich, McElhinney, Raycroft, Conklin, Danis, Clemmensen, Plante, Zatkoff, Harding, Lawson, Brodeur, Hedberg, Grahame, Montoya, Johnson, Auld, McKenna, Backlund, Leighton, Pogge, Niitymaki, Caron, Gustavsson, Climie, Sabourin, Mannino, and Mason.

I would be interested in Niitymaki, Montoya, or possibly Huet as backups to Fleury. Johnson is my choice to get signed for WBS since currently the only goalie would be Killeen.
From that list, I can see Harding being the best bet if he get's to test the free agency market. I just don't want to see Johnson again.

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05-24-2012, 06:33 PM
  #91
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From that list, I can see Harding being the best bet if he get's to test the free agency market. I just don't want to see Johnson again.
He might be looking for a #1 gig though and may be too expensive for us.

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05-24-2012, 06:39 PM
  #92
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He might be looking for a #1 gig though and may be too expensive for us.
True. Is there any truth that we're after that Finnish, Vehanen guy? Would be good relief for Fleury I think.

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05-24-2012, 06:48 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by canadianguy77 View Post
That really is an interesting question. IMO it doesn't have as much to do with whether or not a player is a "superstar." To me, it has more do with a player's body type, (at what age they "fill out") and/or the player's work ethic.

When Geno came into the league, he was 20 years old, but still had the body of a teenager. I think he weighed somewhere around 185 pounds, which for a 6'3 frame, is a bit slight. He's put on about 20-25 pounds since then, so he's still growing into his body. He's still getting stronger, and this past year, you could really start to see that. Combine that factor with his newfound work-ethic during the off-season, and I really think this upcoming season we'll begin to see him in his prime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
I would say that superstar players just have more prime years than others either because their bodies developed earlier or because they just have enough skill to overcome their lack of body maturation. They'll stay in their primes at least as long as the average hockey player, barring injury of course.
ya I was just sort of laughing at his use of the word technically in his post. its not really a technical thing

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05-24-2012, 07:31 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
is there a official age for players to hit their prime? Don't superstar type guys tend to peak earlier than most players?
I believe scoring peaks in the NHL tend to be 24-26.

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05-24-2012, 08:17 PM
  #95
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I believe scoring peaks in the NHL tend to be 24-26.
For the average player, but elite players prime years can stretch up too, and into their early 30's. Say 6 to 8 years.

Crosby and Malkin have been doing what they've been doing since day one pretty much. Prime years usually see a peek of offensive output, but injuries have chewed into their production so there's no way to tell if the have even hit their peeks yet. Sid was on a tear when he got his concussion. Would have really liked to see what would have transpired from that season.

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05-24-2012, 08:32 PM
  #96
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I would like Josh Harding, if nobody offers him to be a starter, maybe we can offer him to be a back up that plays more than a back up usually does, give Fleury some rest.

If we don't get Harding, Montoya is a pretty good back up.

And I don't think Brent Johnson's being brought back, after the way he played during the season, and the way Fleury played in the playoffs, Shero won't re-sign Johnson, he will look for a veteran back up who can take some of the work load off of Fleury.

I figured that from the beginning of the off season, then yesterday or today, I read on TIOPS (yeah...I know) that one of the team's top priorities this off season will be to sign a veteran back up for Fleury.

It can be Harding, Montoya, that Finnish goalie you guys are talking about, I don't know about the guys that are in or close to their mid 30's, like Vokoun, Ellis, etc.

I'd rather go younger.

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05-24-2012, 09:20 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I would like Josh Harding, if nobody offers him to be a starter, maybe we can offer him to be a back up that plays more than a back up usually does, give Fleury some rest.

If we don't get Harding, Montoya is a pretty good back up.

And I don't think Brent Johnson's being brought back, after the way he played during the season, and the way Fleury played in the playoffs, Shero won't re-sign Johnson, he will look for a veteran back up who can take some of the work load off of Fleury.

I figured that from the beginning of the off season, then yesterday or today, I read on TIOPS (yeah...I know) that one of the team's top priorities this off season will be to sign a veteran back up for Fleury.

It can be Harding, Montoya, that Finnish goalie you guys are talking about, I don't know about the guys that are in or close to their mid 30's, like Vokoun, Ellis, etc.

I'd rather go younger.
Most won't agree. But I wouldn't mind bringing in a younger backup with starting potential. I just don't trust Fleury in the postseason anymore. Need someone who can give us some insurance. At the very least, get us through a series while Fleury rebounds.

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05-24-2012, 10:15 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I don't expect any major changes, but we can't afford to be pissing away prime years of Sid and Geno.

A shakeup of the locker room would do wonders IMO. It's not all on DB, Martin and Fleury. We didn't execute and were without desperation aside from a game 4 blowout and Fleury standing on his head in game 5.
Whether or not it would be a case of 'pissing away prime years', it strikes me as quite legitimate, when people talk about next to no changes in the roster and no changes in the coaching staff, if that wouldn't be precisely what it is if next season ends like the previous three.

Much as we talk about the coaching staff being under the microscope, I'd like to think that management also is under the microscope. Whether he makes moves or stands pat, Shero should have to live with the consequences of his decision.

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05-24-2012, 10:19 PM
  #99
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Whether or not it would be a case of 'pissing away prime years', it strikes me as quite legitimate, when people talk about next to no changes in the roster and no changes in the coaching staff, if that wouldn't be precisely what it is if next season ends like the previous three.

Much as we talk about the coaching staff being under the microscope, I'd like to think that management also is under the microscope. Whether he makes moves or stands pat, Shero should have to live with the consequences of his decision.
if things go poorly I expect him to take the honorable way out

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05-24-2012, 10:27 PM
  #100
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I don't think Harding is realistic, I think we can pretty much cross him off the list. He'll go to TB or Toronto where he can be assured 40+ starts. Same for Vokoun. He took a pay-cut to play in Washington, but he still expected to see the bulk of the playing time. He'll either go to a team where he can be the starter or he'll go back to Europe, at least I would if I were him.

Montoya, Ellis, Leighton, Mason, McElhinney, Danis, Auld, Conklin and Biron are the names we'll be targeting.

Since we're in need of a starting goalie in Wilkes-Barre it's possible that we sign two of those names. Say Montoya to back-up Fleury and then McElhinney to backstop the baby Pens.


Last edited by Jacob: 05-24-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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