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Off-Season Discussion - Part IV (Cap Info in Post 1)

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05-24-2012, 09:29 PM
  #101
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
if things go poorly I expect him to take the honorable way out
He very may well.

I just think it's curious. We all talk about 'well, if the coach is replaced, then . . . ' or 'if Staal is moved, then . . .'. If aggressive stuff like that goes south, then Shero is on the hook. By the same token, I think he's on the hook if he's overly cautious and things don't pan out (and, heaven forbid, Staal then walks for nothing). In a way, I wonder if that might be the worst scenario for him.

Lest I forget, keep Staal (unless, for example, Jim Rutherford gives in when Shero wants Sutter, Faulk, and the 8th overall for Staal and Martin), Cooke and Martin for Malone, TK and Bennett for Stewart, then give me Kunitz-Sid-Stewart, Malone-Malkin-Neal, and Tangradi-Staal-Dupuis. As for the D, Orpik with Letang, Despres with Michalek. Move Nisky for a 2nd. Let Lovejoy walk. Sign a stop gap like Bryan Allen. Slot in Strait and Bortuzzo to compete with Engo for the #6. If Morrow kills it at camp, then you keep him up and move one of Strait or Bortuzzo for like a 4th.

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05-24-2012, 09:50 PM
  #102
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A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.

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05-24-2012, 09:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.
Cole, I actually agree, and that might be as risky for Shero as being aggressive. I mean, IF it doesn't work out, can't you see Burkle/Mario saying something along the lines of 'well, Ray, you run the team, you wanted to leave things as they were with the player mix and the coaches, treat this year as a mulligan for last year, and all we've got to show for it is another wasted year of Crosby and Malkin'. Can't see that ending well for Ray if he stands pat and it doesn't pan out. Come to think of it, I wonder if an aggressive approach might be less of a risk for Shero's job security.

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05-24-2012, 10:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.
This offseason has a different feel. I think we'll see an upgrade somewhere in the lineup.

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05-25-2012, 12:54 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.
I agree and disagree. I think there might be some big departures, but not very many additions. Essentially they could move three defenseman without needing to acquire another one. I also could see Jeffrey and Kennedy seeing the door. The only additions I see are third and/or 4th line players.

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05-25-2012, 02:20 AM
  #106
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with how awful the D was and how many great D prospects we have, Shero really has to move at lease one of the high priced guys.

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05-25-2012, 02:33 AM
  #107
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Yeah, I do think we will have a very active off-season. We have a logjam on D that needs sorted out. Crosby will be extended at some point and Staal will either get extended or traded.

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05-25-2012, 07:16 AM
  #108
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I think Shero will be agressive at the draft this year. 3 years of subpar playoffs will force him to change direction. I think we will start to build from within instead of going after high priced free agents. It's time to give our own homegrown prospects their long overdue NHL slots. Bring up Tangradi, Strait, Bortuzzo.

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05-25-2012, 08:23 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
This offseason has a different feel. I think we'll see an upgrade somewhere in the lineup.
This offseason has an uncertain feel, a lot like after the 2009-2010 season. Shero's response was to sign Martin and Michalek and to continue with the over the hill vets to fill things up front. Let's hope, no matter what he does, that he has a better plan this time.

BTW, I still say it's a very limited 'non-starter' list. Anything else will be on the table, including Staal. Doesn't mean that he'll move him, but I think, whether he can or cannot sign Staal and whether or not he moves Staal, he's going to see exactly what return value he can get for him.

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05-25-2012, 11:50 AM
  #110
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I don't think Harding is realistic, I think we can pretty much cross him off the list. He'll go to TB or Toronto where he can be assured 40+ starts. Same for Vokoun. He took a pay-cut to play in Washington, but he still expected to see the bulk of the playing time. He'll either go to a team where he can be the starter or he'll go back to Europe, at least I would if I were him.

Montoya, Ellis, Leighton, Mason, McElhinney, Danis, Auld, Conklin and Biron are the names we'll be targeting.

Since we're in need of a starting goalie in Wilkes-Barre it's possible that we sign two of those names. Say Montoya to back-up Fleury and then McElhinney to backstop the baby Pens.
I don't mind any of those for back up except for Conk or Mason. I don't want ether of those. I love Conklin while he was here, that streak he put on when Fleury was down was fantastic and memorable. But his tank is pretty empty. And I have never been high on Mason, I've seen way to many beach ball games from him, I'd prefer Johnson back over him.

Off that list I'd prefer Montoya, Leighton, or Ellis. I've seen all three take heat and be able to handle it at least in enough of a form for a capable backup.

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05-25-2012, 12:16 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Fictionzero View Post
...
Off that list I'd prefer Montoya, Leighton, or Ellis. I've seen all three take heat and be able to handle it at least in enough of a form for a capable backup.
off that list I'd prefer Leighton if we are sure his back is ok.

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05-25-2012, 12:28 PM
  #112
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off that list I'd prefer Leighton if we are sure his back is ok.
Leighton should be one of the last possible goalies we should be looking at if we want to improve our G core.

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05-25-2012, 01:12 PM
  #113
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curious as to why you say that Shrimper?

He has proven himself to some degree in the post season.
His stats in the AHL the last couple of season are pretty decent, my reservation on him would be health.

Montoya has some potential, honestly I can't quite make my mind up on him as there have been some times where I wonder how tough he is mentally as 1 goal could lead to a bunch more coming at times. He's on a bad team, putting up a sub .90 save %, Nabby put up a .914 on the same team.

Leighton I think is mentally tough. He put up a .918 save % when the flyers went to the cup in the playoffs. Not meteoric but certainly not horrible. My concern is the following year in the playoffs he wasn't very good, I believe that was injury (back) related and that if those issues have resolved themselves he might be a capable backup. Since he has a long playoff run in his resume he could be plugged in for a playoff start if we absolutely had to.

Montoya who knows what we'd get. Maybe great, maybe not.

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05-25-2012, 01:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.
Before I would've said you're full of ****... but now, because you are a global moderator... I take pretty much everything you say at face value. Congrats, dude!

As for Shero, I'll be shocked if he doesn't move at least one F and one D to shake things up, although I won't be shocked if there are no big names coming back, just more "pretty decent" players that are bigger / stronger than whoever we trade away and not unskilled.

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05-25-2012, 01:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
He very may well.

I just think it's curious. We all talk about 'well, if the coach is replaced, then . . . ' or 'if Staal is moved, then . . .'. If aggressive stuff like that goes south, then Shero is on the hook. By the same token, I think he's on the hook if he's overly cautious and things don't pan out (and, heaven forbid, Staal then walks for nothing). In a way, I wonder if that might be the worst scenario for him.

Lest I forget, keep Staal (unless, for example, Jim Rutherford gives in when Shero wants Sutter, Faulk, and the 8th overall for Staal and Martin), Cooke and Martin for Malone, TK and Bennett for Stewart, then give me Kunitz-Sid-Stewart, Malone-Malkin-Neal, and Tangradi-Staal-Dupuis. As for the D, Orpik with Letang, Despres with Michalek. Move Nisky for a 2nd. Let Lovejoy walk. Sign a stop gap like Bryan Allen. Slot in Strait and Bortuzzo to compete with Engo for the #6. If Morrow kills it at camp, then you keep him up and move one of Strait or Bortuzzo for like a 4th.
I would never trade Bennett for Stewart ever. Martin could get him in return quite easily.

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05-25-2012, 02:14 PM
  #116
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I would never trade Bennett for Stewart ever. Martin could get him in return quite easily.
I'll have a double of whatever you're drinking, please . . .

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05-25-2012, 02:39 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
A lot of people are going to be very mad when we don't make big moves and go with what we got come start of the season. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but I definitely think that's the route Shero will go.

I agree and disagree.

If everyone would look at the UFA's/RFA's the next 2/3 seasons and "get" that players like Kunitz, Orpik, Cooke, Dupuis, Kennedy, and others won't be resigned after their current deals.

This season will probably be regarded as the final push to win it all with this group of players with so many prospects and such ready. You look at everyone who's up should tell you if Staal feels he wants to stay there's plenty of room for them to keep'em. Get rid of the aging vets and replace them with younger cheaper talent as the vets move on. It's a huge chore to figure that out, but that's a bit to think about each season for the next three.

It just has to be done.

2014/15 season

Neal, Crosby, Malkin
__?__, Staal, Bennett?
^>Tangradi, Jeffrey, Kuehnhackl?
__?__, Vitale, __?__
__?__

Despres, Letang
Bortuzzo, Michalek
Strait, Morrow
Harrington

Things could look a lot different with changes being made each season, but they very well could keep Staal easily. It really only comes down to Staal's preference/choice. After these up and coming seasons, there has to be a major player turnover just looking at the UFA's/RFA's the next few seasons.

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05-25-2012, 03:40 PM
  #118
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I agree and disagree.

If everyone would look at the UFA's/RFA's the next 2/3 seasons and "get" that players like Kunitz, Orpik, Cooke, Dupuis, Kennedy, and others won't be resigned after their current deals.

This season will probably be regarded as the final push to win it all with this group of players with so many prospects and such ready. You look at everyone who's up should tell you if Staal feels he wants to stay there's plenty of room for them to keep'em. Get rid of the aging vets and replace them with younger cheaper talent as the vets move on. It's a huge chore to figure that out, but that's a bit to think about each season for the next three.

It just has to be done.

2014/15 season

Neal, Crosby, Malkin
__?__, Staal, Bennett?
^>Tangradi, Jeffrey, Kuehnhackl?
__?__, Vitale, __?__
__?__

Despres, Letang
Bortuzzo, Michalek
Strait, Morrow
Harrington

Things could look a lot different with changes being made each season, but they very well could keep Staal easily. It really only comes down to Staal's preference/choice. After these up and coming seasons, there has to be a major player turnover just looking at the UFA's/RFA's the next few seasons.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's see how Morrow, Kuhn, & Bennett handle the pro game next year before we start penciling guys in.

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05-25-2012, 03:43 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's see how Morrow, Kuhn, & Bennett handle the pro game next year before we start penciling guys in.
That's why there's a ? next to them and I forgot the D-mans ?, sorry.

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05-25-2012, 04:32 PM
  #120
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Pencil Morrow in. I heart him!

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05-27-2012, 09:41 AM
  #121
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I do think there is a reason Parise has not signed yet. Something is up there.
Lamoriello is (notoriously) known for not doing re-signing during the offseason.

Not saying he isn't leaving.

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05-27-2012, 10:27 AM
  #122
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Pencil Morrow in. I heart him!
Nothing is guaranteed but what I saw of him last fall was pretty impressive and it seems he's done well on the development front this year both in terms of physical strength and game performance. I don't see any reason why this fall he won't be bigger, faster, better, more confident than he was last fall. I think he's got a legitimate shot (with a monster camp and 8 game stint) of making the team.

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05-27-2012, 10:29 AM
  #123
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Lamoriello is (notoriously) known for not doing re-signing during the offseason.

Not saying he isn't leaving.
Did you mean notorious for not re-signing players during the season (as opposed to off-season, which is his only choice for Parise at this point considering he's on a 1 year deal)?

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05-27-2012, 10:37 AM
  #124
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Lamoriello is (notoriously) known for not doing re-signing during the offseason.

Not saying he isn't leaving.
That is really dumb. Darcy Reiger does the same thing and ends up paying much more or even losing guys. Bad way to do business. Especially with your star player and captain.

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05-27-2012, 10:41 AM
  #125
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Nothing is guaranteed but what I saw of him last fall was pretty impressive and it seems he's done well on the development front this year both in terms of physical strength and game performance. I don't see any reason why this fall he won't be bigger, faster, better, more confident than he was last fall. I think he's got a legitimate shot (with a monster camp and 8 game stint) of making the team.
I was answering a post saying that you shouldn't pencil him in for 14-15 season. I am not saying pencil him in for this upcoming season, but I am saying there is a greater chance of him making it out of camp this season than him not still not being ready that far away. To me, he is can't miss at this point.

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