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NHLer having troubles against Swedish teams?

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Old
12-19-2004, 04:29 PM
  #1
Madevilz
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NHLer having troubles against Swedish teams?

World Stars lost 2 or their last three against Swedish teams.
Is this saying something?
NHLers not as good as we think?

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Old
12-19-2004, 04:38 PM
  #2
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madevilz
World Stars lost 2 or their last three against Swedish teams.
Is this saying something?
NHLers not as good as we think?
It could mean so many things. I'd like to see the games. Some possible explanations, in no particular order:

1-Just an anomaly
2-Especially hot or poor goaltending (or both)
3-Those games meant nothing
4-Schedule for the world stars has been especially grueling
5-Team game is underrated and more important than all-star lineup

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Old
12-19-2004, 06:24 PM
  #3
wassup77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
It could mean so many things. I'd like to see the games. Some possible explanations, in no particular order:

1-Just an anomaly
2-Especially hot or poor goaltending (or both)
3-Those games meant nothing
4-Schedule for the world stars has been especially grueling
5-Team game is underrated and more important than all-star lineup
You forgot that NHLers are not used to big ice.

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Old
12-19-2004, 06:33 PM
  #4
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And maybe too much drinking and partying the night before every game

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Old
12-19-2004, 06:37 PM
  #5
s7ark
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my theory is that with no red line the swedish torpedo system is too much for a bunch of players used to trapping. On paper at least it seems like a very effective way to beat a trap.

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12-19-2004, 09:25 PM
  #6
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It's just a totally different style of game over there, and most of these players on the World Stars really haven't been active lately and they're still getting their legs back.

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Old
12-19-2004, 09:32 PM
  #7
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It has to be taken into consideration that there is a lot of NHLers playing for Sweden's teams while our team isn't a true 'All-Star' team but mostly a bunch of friends put together. Tie Domi is on the team, dear God!

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Old
12-19-2004, 09:37 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
my theory is that with no red line the swedish torpedo system is too much for a bunch of players used to trapping. On paper at least it seems like a very effective way to beat a trap.
Detroit Attempted to try a modified version of the Trap due to the way teams played them in the play-offs. They worked all pre-season to come up with something but were unable to effectively work a Torpede-scheme into the NHL due to the red line and the size of the ice.

So the NHL recognizes its effectiveness, but i wonder if as you said, the NHLers are actually aware of just how effective it can be. The trap allowed bad teams to be effective and shut down skilled teams, im sure some think the system is unbeatable.

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Old
12-19-2004, 09:49 PM
  #9
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The world allstars don't care.

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Old
12-19-2004, 09:50 PM
  #10
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i watched one of the games against sweden and the match was a joke. the swedish elite league players were not as skilled but definitely more motivated to impress their NHL counterparts. also, the last swedish team featured a top line of NHLers (Morrison, Knuble, Huselius) that outplayed everyone else. in contrast, almost every player on the world stars team was floating aorund the ice (especially Mats Sundin) with the exception of Domi, Lapperriere, and Liles. Thank goodness my ten bucks is going to charity thus making my contribution worthwhile to some extent. i am an idiot thinking this primus world tour would have been somewhat entertaining.

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Old
12-19-2004, 09:59 PM
  #11
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The schedule is pretty tough, and scenic at the same time. They are jetting into different countries every day. I'm sure that the players aren't giving it their full effort either, while some of these Euro teams might be.

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Old
12-19-2004, 10:18 PM
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Don't forget they have also played 8 games in 11 days, even though some guys have been in and out of the line-up depending on which country they play in. It might be starting to wear down on Brodeur and Hasek mentally and physically for sure. Who knows how much training each player did before this "road trip", maybe this is their "training camp" also. Plus like someone already said, most of the NHL guys aren't used to playing on the big ice.


Last edited by SkoulasOut4theSummer: 12-19-2004 at 10:23 PM.
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Old
12-20-2004, 06:15 AM
  #13
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I attented the World Star's game in Bern and it was clear that it was just an exhibition, the final scores don't have any meaning.

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Old
12-20-2004, 06:34 AM
  #14
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The "torpedo" system was used by one team only - Djurgårdens IF, seasons 99-00 and 00-01. It has not been used since because it was not effective at all when teams learned to defend against it.

No, the explaination is that while the World Stars have been sitting on their butts for half a season, the Swedish teams are in the middle of their season with a full tuned team game and sufficient offensive qualities to beat an unmotivated, untrained NHL all star team.

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Old
12-20-2004, 06:42 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evasuk21
Don't forget they have also played 8 games in 11 days, even though some guys have been in and out of the line-up depending on which country they play in. It might be starting to wear down on Brodeur and Hasek mentally and physically for sure. Who knows how much training each player did before this "road trip", maybe this is their "training camp" also. Plus like someone already said, most of the NHL guys aren't used to playing on the big ice.

Yeah that + they are all having constantly hangovers from the night before the games.

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Old
12-20-2004, 10:55 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
Thank goodness my ten bucks is going to charity thus making my contribution worthwhile to some extent. i am an idiot thinking this primus world tour would have been somewhat entertaining.

Ummmm, IMG and the players have never actually said how much of your $10 is going to charity. My guess is maybe a buck or two at the most, the rest of your dollars is going to pay for the tour itself.........

And don't fret the idiot thing........the sun rises tomorrow.....never will you be fooled into thinking NHLers actually care about the on-ice product they represent when not playing for their million dollar contracts.

It's almost embarassing for them putting on a half-assed show for the charities that they are raising the money for. Sad. Truly sad.

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Old
12-20-2004, 01:14 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddarn
The "torpedo" system was used by one team only - Djurgårdens IF, seasons 99-00 and 00-01. It has not been used since because it was not effective at all when teams learned to defend against it.
Please, can someone who knows, tell me what is exacty torpedo system? I know it was allready posted somewhere but I forgot.
And what is good and bad about it?

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:01 PM
  #18
Riddarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORRUS
Please, can someone who knows, tell me what is exacty torpedo system? I know it was allready posted somewhere but I forgot.
And what is good and bad about it?
Basicly it used the removed center line as an opportunity to stretch the ice by high forchecking, and then they used the extra surface to play a puck possession game similar to the old russian style. I've always thought that it looked very old fashioned and the short period of success it had was more because of the fact that Djurgården had a very good team at the time and the fact that the SEL was so defensive at that point that forchecking with two forwards was almost unheard of. It was not very revolutionary, the name "torpedo" was probably more a marketing ploy than anything else.

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:02 PM
  #19
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORRUS
Please, can someone who knows, tell me what is exacty torpedo system? I know it was allready posted somewhere but I forgot.
And what is good and bad about it?
The search function (or google) is your friend.

It is basically a rather agressive system of four attacking players and one "true" defenseman.

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:11 PM
  #20
Riddarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The search function (or google) is your friend.

It is basically a rather agressive system of four attacking players and one "true" defenseman.
Yeah but most SEL team already played with one defensive defender and one offensive defender, they still do. Under the "torpedo" the Center and the Offensive Defender became "half backs". Sure, in some formations both of the "half backs" used to be centers but they still lined up as a normal team before faceoffs and stuff like that.

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:12 PM
  #21
Rand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
It could mean so many things. I'd like to see the games. Some possible explanations, in no particular order:

1-Just an anomaly
2-Especially hot or poor goaltending (or both)
3-Those games meant nothing
4-Schedule for the world stars has been especially grueling
5-Team game is underrated and more important than all-star lineup
I haven't seen any of the games but my best guesses....
1. The schedule is incredibly harsh, these guys must be absolutely exhausted by now.
2. Meaningless games, the World Stars team is playing for little more reason then to stay in shape. It seems quite plausible their hardly overly concerned about being at their best.

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:28 PM
  #22
An Ape called Yoko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddarn
The "torpedo" system was used by one team only - Djurgårdens IF, seasons 99-00 and 00-01. It has not been used since because it was not effective at all when teams learned to defend against it.

No, the explaination is that while the World Stars have been sitting on their butts for half a season, the Swedish teams are in the middle of their season with a full tuned team game and sufficient offensive qualities to beat an unmotivated, untrained NHL all star team.
Agreed. Although the swedish teams have all lacked some very good players whom either have been playing with the national team or been, recovering from injury to be back when SEL starts again or gotten permission to go home to their familys(Chara, Souray).

But its a disappointment to those who went to see the games that the NHL:ers werent playing their heart out at all. It looked like they were trying for a while against Färjestad, but then the swedes stepped on the pedal and 6-1 could have been a lot more if Hasek hadn´t done some nice saves.

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Old
12-20-2004, 02:57 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The search function (or google) is your friend.

It is basically a rather agressive system of four attacking players and one "true" defenseman.
OK, I assume it is possible only on European big ice surface when attacking team has more space? That means that NA players are not familiar with that style of play (it would be very difficult for NA forwards on small ice surface against strong defence).
My question is: wouldn't it be productive for fast european teams (for example Russians) on international level against Canadians and Americans? Let say that europeans practice torpedo style before an international tournament and keep it as an option. For example during the semifinal game in Salt lake city. After 3 periods USA was up 3-0. Russians responded with 2 goals. Wouldn't that be the right moment? First, you have big ice and extremely skilled Russian forwards and second, you have American defence that never played that way. Americans are confused, little bit of momentum for Russians and the game could have easily ended the other way around. What do you think? Is it possible for European team to surprise NA teams that way?

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Old
12-20-2004, 03:23 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky99
The world allstars don't care.
Yeah, great argument. They go oversea and they don't care about the game.

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Old
12-20-2004, 05:10 PM
  #25
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An interesting note:

None of the games in Sweden were sold out, the NHL-players don´t care and most of the fans don´t care about these so called all-star games. Even the swedish players were holding back, except for Andreas Pihl that is.

It can be fun to watch on TV but I personally would never pay to watch these type of games live.

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