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Toronto - Philadelphia

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Old
05-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
My favourite part of all this, the guy who is supposed to be the next great offensive powerfoward has only outscored Schenn's (offensive black hole) career high by 18 points
What I love about this thread, is Toronto fans putting down JVR yet, they all can't wait to trade for him.

Tell you what Toronto. You keep your Bottom pairing defenseman, and we will keep our struggling power forward.

Deal?

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05-25-2012, 01:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by jboknows View Post
In a radical change to the deal how about:

Philly - gives nothing
Toronto - gives nothing

Can everyone agree the value is there? Can this proposal stop being made as it turns into a ****-show every time.

The leafs should NOT be giving up on Schenn - yup not the best season last year, but if you look at the whole team, it really wasn't a good year for most people (save for Kessel, Grabovski, Lupul and Gardiner).

There was a new coach brought in for a reason. A coach that plays defensive, hard-hitting, cycle-the-puck hockey. The kind of hockey that both Komisarek and Schenn should be great in.

Unless Schenn proves to me that he will not be a dominate player under this new system, I wouldn't trade him. That is not to say that I don't think his value is on par or close with JVR... I think a deal around the two of them is sound in principal... but I unlike a majority of leafs fans think he still is going to be a great defenseman in this league


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Nobody will agree to this...torontos nothing should be at least worth a second

Hockey is like investing... you don't sell low unless you're pretty damn sure your investment is going to **** the bed. Schenn is 22 yo... and everyone knows that Dmen and Goalies take more time to develop than forwards. Give the kid some time to catch his stride.

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Old
05-25-2012, 01:46 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What I love about this thread, is Toronto fans putting down JVR yet, they all can't wait to trade for him.

Tell you what Toronto. You keep your Bottom pairing defenseman, and we will keep our struggling power forward.

Deal?
What thread are you reading?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
It's kind of confusing...either way if Philly wants Schenn...they can get him but we want no part of JvR.

We have enough overpaid 40 point guys...in Lombardi, Connolly, Armstrong etc that are done next year..we don't want to start another collection.

JvR is a decent player but Holmgren made a BIG mistake by giving 4.25Mx6 because of one playoff series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBLEAF View Post
JVR is vastly overrated on these boards want to part of him or his injury problems i T.O
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
not nearly as much as JVR's has. ...he barely puts up more points than Schenn, and has Brett Lindros written all over him.
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
do not want JVR... guy is massivly overrated
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
There's this stigma that JVR is worth so much because he was selected 2nd overall. His career high is 40 points. That's it.

No, Schenn isn't worth JVR and a first for him, but Schenn is definitely equal value as JVR is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
My favourite part of all this, the guy who is supposed to be the next great offensive powerfoward has only outscored Schenn's (offensive black hole) career high by 18 points

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Old
05-25-2012, 02:11 PM
  #79
Badger Mayhew
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Would rather keep Schenn. I like how he's suddenly a "bottom-pairing defenseman" when he dominated all season long in 2010-2011. He's 22 years old and had one off year. He'll bounce back.

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Old
05-25-2012, 02:41 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What I love about this thread, is Toronto fans putting down JVR yet, they all can't wait to trade for him.

Tell you what Toronto. You keep your Bottom pairing defenseman, and we will keep our struggling power forward.

Deal?
Why is JVR allowed to be a struggling power forward but Schenn is a bottom pairing defensemen?

Keep your 2nd overall headcase we'll keep our struggling shutdown D-man.

Deal?

See it's not too nice when I say it either. ):

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05-25-2012, 03:09 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Why is JVR allowed to be a struggling power forward but Schenn is a bottom pairing defensemen?

Keep your 2nd overall headcase we'll keep our struggling shutdown D-man.

Deal?

See it's not too nice when I say it either. ):
He's a head case now?

Are we simply allowed to make things up?

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05-25-2012, 03:49 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 View Post
I didn't realize so many sensible people would comment so early. Sorry and no I'm a flyers fan. I think a straight up proposal would be fair, though it probably wouldn't work. Burke wanted JVR, Read, and a first for Schenn earlier this year. So I think it is necessary to overpay to some extent. Though, as previously stated his injuries are a turnoff.
Burke can "want" that all he wants but he won't even get Matt Read straigjt up for Schenn.

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Old
05-25-2012, 03:53 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Burke can "want" that all he wants but he won't even get Matt Read straigjt up for Schenn.
I'm a Flyers fan. Because I'm stuck outside D.C., I can't personally offer to drive Matt Read to Philadelphia International, but I'd quite gladly chip in the cab fair to make that happen.

You're either massively overrating Matt Read or underrating Schenn.

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05-25-2012, 07:32 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
My favourite part of all this, the guy who is supposed to be the next great offensive powerfoward has only outscored Schenn's (offensive black hole) career high by 18 points
JVR - 3 seasons: 196 GP- 47-52-99
- Playoffs: 39 GP: 11-4-15

Luke Schenn - 4 seasons: 310GP - 14-61-75

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Old
05-25-2012, 09:37 PM
  #85
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just curious ...would philly trade jvr for sekera..they seem to be looking for a top pairing dman ?

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05-25-2012, 10:39 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
just curious ...would philly trade jvr for sekera..they seem to be looking for a top pairing dman ?
All due respect, what does Sekera have to do with #1 defenseman? He doesn't even play on the PP.

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05-25-2012, 11:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
All due respect, what does Sekera have to do with #1 defenseman? He doesn't even play on the PP.
he is a top pairing dman ...and he can play the powerplay.

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05-25-2012, 11:26 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
he is a top pairing dman ...and he can play the powerplay.
But on a team with a mediocre PP, he doesn't.

Sorry, he's a good player, but I just don't see him as the kind of D-man the Flyers really need. Whether or not he's worth JvR at his current value is another discussion, of course. But I'd rather try to package JvR with something to get a true #1 type or just hang on to him.

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Old
05-26-2012, 12:35 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
He's a head case now?

Are we simply allowed to make things up?
Are you happy spending a 2nd overall on him? I'd want more value out of my 2nd overall instead of injury injury injury injury giant contract injury. I mean he has been the worst 2nd overall pick in recent memory. He's a headcase because he's so much trobule to deal with. Then again I'm a Leaf fan that doesn't want JVR. I don't think he'll pan out to be much more then a 2nd line winger netting 40-50 point seasons. That's not worth Schenn, especially when the Leafs rely on Schenn and he contributes so much when he has a good season which he did have back in 10-11. No reason to give up on Schenn after a bad season and an offseason where he gained 10-15lbs. and trade him for a guy who would slot in our 2nd line and could very easily be dropped to the 3rd line when he isn't spending his time being injured. Yes JVR had a good playoff run, but it's such a small sample size. If Toronto wanted that they would have just grabbed Bergenheim and save a Mill or two.

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05-26-2012, 01:49 AM
  #90
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I wouldn't mind having JVR in our top 6, I like his size, obviously if we acquired him I would want him to become a more physical force and be nastier then he is. But personally for me I do not like the idea of a straight up player for player swap Schenn for JVR. I would want JVR + something for Schenn.

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Old
05-26-2012, 08:15 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Are you happy spending a 2nd overall on him? I'd want more value out of my 2nd overall instead of injury injury injury injury giant contract injury. I mean he has been the worst 2nd overall pick in recent memory. He's a headcase because he's so much trobule to deal with. Then again I'm a Leaf fan that doesn't want JVR. I don't think he'll pan out to be much more then a 2nd line winger netting 40-50 point seasons. That's not worth Schenn, especially when the Leafs rely on Schenn and he contributes so much when he has a good season which he did have back in 10-11. No reason to give up on Schenn after a bad season and an offseason where he gained 10-15lbs. and trade him for a guy who would slot in our 2nd line and could very easily be dropped to the 3rd line when he isn't spending his time being injured. Yes JVR had a good playoff run, but it's such a small sample size. If Toronto wanted that they would have just grabbed Bergenheim and save a Mill or two.
If you re-did the 2007 draft, knowing what the Flyers know now, they take McDonough--but aside frmo him, Alzner, Couture, and a few other decent players, that first round isn't exactly a list of proven stars . Heck, compared to the two players that followed JVR (Turris, Hickey), the pick doesn't look so bad.

If JVR puts up 50 points a year as a second-line winger, he's absolutely worth Schenn. I'm one of the (relatively) few Flyers fans would would take Schenn + 2012 2nd for JVR and part ways--I think he's got more offensive upside than he's shown, and at worst provides a physical presence that the current defensive corps sometimes lacks.

I also think JVR could easily still top 60 points a year. He was on that pace THIS YEAR before he was sidelined by injuries. MaxPac had a similar line of development before breaking out this year. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to project--if he can stay healthy--that JVR can match that 30-30-60 production.

But we're coming back to the same old cyclical argument--the TML fans that want JVR want JVR + for Schenn. Ditto the Flyers fans that want Schenn +.


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Old
05-26-2012, 08:26 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
I wouldn't mind having JVR in our top 6, I like his size, obviously if we acquired him I would want him to become a more physical force and be nastier then he is. But personally for me I do not like the idea of a straight up player for player swap Schenn for JVR. I would want JVR + something for Schenn.
then you wouldn't get JVR. If a team is trading for JVR, they are doing so believing he will be the top line player he is expected to be. And thus, Philly will get good value for him IF they decide to trade him. Philly's needs are not for a #3-4 D-man like Schenn. Having Kimmo, Coburn, Grossman and Mez, they need a #1 and thus pushing everyone down a notch and replacing(if possible) Prongers spot.

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05-26-2012, 09:24 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
If you re-did the 2007 draft, knowing what the Flyers know now, they take McDonough--but aside frmo him, Alzner, Couture, and a few other decent players, that first round isn't exactly a list of proven stars . Heck, compared to the two players that followed JVR (Turris, Hickey), the pick doesn't look so bad.

If JVR puts up 50 points a year as a second-line winger, he's absolutely worth Schenn. I'm one of the (relatively) few Flyers fans would would take Schenn + 2012 2nd for JVR and part ways--I think he's got more offensive upside than he's shown, and at worst provides a physical presence that the current defensive corps sometimes lacks.

I also think JVR could easily still top 60 points a year. He was on that pace THIS YEAR before he was sidelined by injuries. MaxPac had a similar line of development before breaking out this year. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to project--if he can stay healthy--that JVR can match that 30-30-60 production.

But we're coming back to the same old cyclical argument--the TML fans that want JVR want JVR + for Schenn. Ditto the Flyers fans that want Schenn +.

As i've been quoted as saying before, IMO, the struggling 21 year old power forward with upside holds slightly more value than the struggling 22 year old shutdown D-man with upside. I'd be willing to add a 3rd or maybe a 2nd to Schenn.

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05-26-2012, 09:36 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
Are you happy spending a 2nd overall on him? I'd want more value out of my 2nd overall instead of injury injury injury injury giant contract injury. I mean he has been the worst 2nd overall pick in recent memory. He's a headcase because he's so much trobule to deal with. Then again I'm a Leaf fan that doesn't want JVR. I don't think he'll pan out to be much more then a 2nd line winger netting 40-50 point seasons. That's not worth Schenn, especially when the Leafs rely on Schenn and he contributes so much when he has a good season which he did have back in 10-11. No reason to give up on Schenn after a bad season and an offseason where he gained 10-15lbs. and trade him for a guy who would slot in our 2nd line and could very easily be dropped to the 3rd line when he isn't spending his time being injured. Yes JVR had a good playoff run, but it's such a small sample size. If Toronto wanted that they would have just grabbed Bergenheim and save a Mill or two.
What are you talking about?

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05-26-2012, 09:39 AM
  #95
Jack de la Hoya
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What are you talking about?
He's making it up, I assume. He quoted my post, where I suggested he was making it up, and he responded by repeating the same claim. A one-way ticket to the "ignore user" list.

I don't remember anyone ever questioning JVR's work ethic or commitment. His consistency? Sure. But I don't think that rises to the level of "head case."

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