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HF Team Board Mock Draft - 11th Overall

View Poll Results: Who do you want the Capitals to select 11th overall at the draft?
Radek Faksa 43 57.33%
Olli Määttä 16 21.33%
Cody Ceci 8 10.67%
Sebastian Collberg 1 1.33%
Zemgus Girgensons 2 2.67%
Brendan Gaunce 2 2.67%
Hampus Lindholm 1 1.33%
Derrick Pouliot 2 2.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-25-2012, 01:50 PM
  #51
Cappy76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Semin happens to be a hot topic being discussed in multiple threads. What bothers you more, that Semin is being picked apart, or that I'm being brutally honest and not letting my "fandom" get in the way of honest analysis of the player?

We had a system where we played up tempo offense. It resulted in early round exits in the postseason.

This is where I don't get what some fans are seeing. Do you really think the system gave Ovechkin the fumbles? Do you think the system turned him into a player so predictable that the crappiest defenders in the NHL have a fairly easy time defending him? I'm fine with pointing the finger when it makes sense, but come on....

For what it's worth, I would much rather go back to something resembling the Red Wings system. Offense as needed with solid defensive capabilities. Sadly we don't have the personnel....thanks GMGM.
Neither bothers me I've been sitting on the couch for a few years now with my dad having the same conversations about Semin that are just coming up now. I like Semin and see what he can be in an offensive system I also see that he does play decently well defensively. The only problem I have with Semin per say is his Cap hit. If his Cap hit was more around the range of 4-5 I don't think people make nearly as big of a deal about his shortcomings. So his agent got the best deal for his client (blame that on GMGM).

As for Ovie....He got the fumbles when he was given less space by defenders thats the problem hes being forced to do more with less space. You can go back to his rookie season and see when D step up on him he became less sure with the puck on his stick. You put Ovie in a system that plays to his strengths and you don't see his weaknesses as much. Period. Im fine with your predictability comment but is it him as much as its the coaches not having anything resembling an offensive system? Is it him or the coaches now saying sit back and don't take many chances IE don't be as creative don't say well screw it im going in 1 on 3 and taking my chances. Thats why he was unpredictable early in his career because he was creative his creativity has been neutered. So yes a system can cripple your creativity and make you more predictable.

I'll leave that as it on this thread being that were getting way off topic here as far as the 11th pick. But would be more than happy to continue it elsewhere.

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Old
05-25-2012, 02:02 PM
  #52
CapitalsCupFantasy
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There's no "system" that gives Ovechkin that space back. Sorry, there's just not. Everyone loves to blame the coaches because it's a lot harder to look at the players you're rooting for and accepting that they've got some critical flaws. The NHL has adapted and Ovy hasn't. His creativity has in no way been neutered by any system. His ability to float unencumbered by defensive responsibilities has.

Trade both picks and get a 2C!

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05-25-2012, 02:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Then what's the point of paying Nicky and Ovi 20% of your cap space if you are gonna waste their prime on players who might be good players in a few years?

Its stupid. GMGM has to believe there is ready players available or he's gonna trade the picks.
You're right. The Caps should never draft another player until the organization wins a Cup with Ovechkin or dies trying.

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05-25-2012, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
There's no "system" that gives Ovechkin that space back. Sorry, there's just not. Everyone loves to blame the coaches because it's a lot harder to look at the players you're rooting for and accepting that they've got some critical flaws. The NHL has adapted and Ovy hasn't. His creativity has in no way been neutered by any system. His ability to float unencumbered by defensive responsibilities has.

Trade both picks and get a 2C!
Ovechkin is allowed to be more creative in a more offensive system more creativity equals him being more unpredictable and not worrying so much about being yelled at because he turned the puck over or it didn't work whatever he tried. Him being more unpredictable means D can't step up on him for fear of being burnt. So yes a system can give him space back.

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05-25-2012, 02:15 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy76 View Post
Ovechkin is allowed to be more creative in a more offensive system more creativity equals him being more unpredictable and not worrying so much about being yelled at because he turned the puck over or it didn't work whatever he tried. Him being more unpredictable means D can't step up on him for fear of being burnt. So yes a system can give him space back.
I think most would disagree. Ovechkin is getting collapsed on no matter what system is being played.

That's why I was hoping Kuz would come over and be his opposite wing, to remove some of that defensive pressure.

What does him being unpredictable have to do with turning over the puck? He can only be creative if he's a turnover machine who plays no D? If so, we're screwed.

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05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post

What does him being unpredictable have to do with turning over the puck? He can only be creative if he's a turnover machine who plays no D? If so, we're screwed.
Where did I say that?
What I said is in a more offensive system he worries less about possibly turning the puck over because he's trying to be more creative. Creativity means turnovers are going to happen your outside the norm there for **** happens. I never said he shouldn't be back playing D you were talking about him being pressured by D and that that was his problem I addressed that. He turns the puck over more and "fumbles" as you put it because he's being pressured more D is closing the gap quicker because he's not allowed to be more creative he's not given free reign in the offensive zone to work his magic.

In a different system he could come in and do more things offensively which would make him less predictable and in being less predictable D wouldn't be able to take the chance of stepping up on him and taking that time and space away from him. I don't understand what your not getting here. It's a pretty simple concept really.

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05-25-2012, 02:38 PM
  #57
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If you think the system doesn't allow him to be creative enough to avoid defenders or make playmaking moves in the offensive zone, you've got the wrong idea of what a "system" does. No matter the system, the NHL has learned how to nullify him to a large extent and he's got to be more creative and less predictable. Lack of creativity is not a system limitation, it's a mental limitation in his game. He's predictable.

Right back at you at the "simple concept".

Maybe you should enlighten us all with all of these "things" you keep vaguely referring to that he COULD do more offensively to nullify a league-wide defensive bubble that's been erected when he steps on the ice?

To me, if I read between the lines, you're suggesting Ovechkin should have less defensive responsibilities so he's "not worrying so much about being yelled". QFT


Do me a favor, respond in the roster building thread so we can continue there.

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05-25-2012, 03:08 PM
  #58
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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So I take it Ovechkin is available in the draft or something?

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05-25-2012, 03:10 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
So I take it Ovechkin is available in the draft or something?
Ovechkin lite but he'll probably go 1 or 2

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05-26-2012, 07:27 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Yeah. At 205 lbs.
He was 5'11', 189 lbs back in 2009.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect....htm?dpid=5367

According to NHL site Dumba already is a little taller, but slightly lighter (6'0'', 183).
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect...Rank&year=2012

And at the time 2009 draft was held Johansson's age was like 18 years and 8 months. Dumba won't be 18 until July 25. He's almost one year younger than Johansson was in 2009.


Last edited by romao: 05-26-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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Old
05-26-2012, 02:23 PM
  #61
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The same idiots who questioned RNH,s size last year are probably the same ones questioning Dumba and his size thisyear

Watching games is to much to ask on here though obviously

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05-26-2012, 02:46 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
The same idiots who questioned RNH,s size last year are probably the same ones questioning Dumba and his size thisyear

Watching games is to much to ask on here though obviously
I am not and have not questioned either players size but I do think there is a difference between questioning the size of a guy with 1st over all skill who plays a very skill based game and questioning whether a guy who plays more of a banging game game at the junior level with less than ideal size is going to be able to be as successful playing that style against bigger stronger players at the NHL level.

The size questions concerning these two players are not the same IMO...

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05-26-2012, 02:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by NeilYoung View Post
The same idiots who questioned RNH,s size last year are probably the same ones questioning Dumba and his size thisyear

Watching games is to much to ask on here though obviously
Missed the part where RNH was touted to be a big hitter and physical player at the next level.

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05-26-2012, 04:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Missed the part where RNH was touted to be a big hitter and physical player at the next level.
Yeah? And he will be it's pretty obvious he,s stupidly strong on his skates like TJ Oshie. Even if he's not as physical at the next level I haveno idea why that matters. He's a great skater moves the puck efficiently and can carry the puck whenever he wants to. Also played a shutdown role when asked down the stretch easily.

But yeah he's definitely only about physical play

Also his Crosby esqe drive to always improve and his leadership skills. The only player right now from the draft That'll be better than Dumba is Yakupov

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05-26-2012, 04:24 PM
  #65
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Yeah? And he will be it's pretty obvious he,s stupidly strong on his skates like TJ Oshie. Even if he's not as physical at the next level I haveno idea why that matters. He's a great skater moves the puck efficiently and can carry the puck whenever he wants to. Also played a shutdown role when asked down the stretch easily.

But yeah he's definitely only about physical play

Also his Crosby esqe drive to always improve and his leadership skills. The only player right now from the draft That'll be better than Dumba is Yakupov
Galenchyuk and Grigorenko had circumstances that prevented them from possibly showing they were better than Yakupov.

Grigorenko has probably had Mono for months making his numbers pretty spectacular.

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05-26-2012, 04:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Galenchyuk and Grigorenko had circumstances that prevented them from possibly showing they were better than Yakupov.
I'll give you Galchenyuk but Grigorenko? Hell no wouldn't touch at all.

I'm confident Grigs is going to take a long hard fall on draft day

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05-26-2012, 04:32 PM
  #67
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I'll give you Galchenyuk but Grigorenko? Hell no wouldn't touch at all.

I'm confident Grigs is going to take a long hard fall on draft day
Then I want him... Badly.

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05-26-2012, 04:38 PM
  #68
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Then I want him... Badly.
Yeah I'm sure you probably wanted esposito in 07 as well

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05-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #69
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Pretty sure any player who blows out his knees has their chance of busting go up astronomically especially if they weren't good to begin with.

I'm sure he wanted Couturier in '11 as well.

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05-26-2012, 04:49 PM
  #70
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If Grigorenko falls to the Caps at 11 and they pass I likely won't be pleased unless some other highly touted guy falls also and they take him instead like Fowler/Gormley in '10.

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05-26-2012, 05:06 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Pretty sure any player who blows out his knees has their chance of busting go up astronomically especially if they weren't good to begin with.

I'm sure he wanted Couturier in '11 as well.
A couturier Grigs comparison is laughable as well. Grigorenko doesn't have one skill as solid as couturier

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05-26-2012, 05:14 PM
  #72
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If they passed on Grigorenko, I could care less.

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05-26-2012, 05:54 PM
  #73
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Grigorenko doesn't have one skill as solid as couturier
Disagree. It's not the pure skill that's the issue with Grigorenko it's his drive and consistency. When he's on his offensive awareness, backhand passing and PP productivity is every bit as good and then some. He's not close to as complete even when he's on but that's another matter.

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05-26-2012, 06:43 PM
  #74
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I really hate the size argument used against players headed for the draft. Just because they're 160 lbs doesn't mean they won't get bigger or that they're not strong. And even if they aren't strong, they're kids for Christ's sake! Only 17 or 18 years old. They won't even be playing in the NHL for two or so years, if they're lucky. They will get bigger and stronger. It shouldn't be an issue in my mind...

For the record, I would take Grigorenko at 11. Without question. But I don't think he will fall anyways

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05-26-2012, 07:14 PM
  #75
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A couturier Grigs comparison is laughable as well. Grigorenko doesn't have one skill as solid as couturier
Yeah that's what everyone was saying about Couturier last year as well. Doesn't compete/doesn't take the game seriously/stay away.

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