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Mckeen's First Round Mock Draft on Rotoworld

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Old
05-26-2012, 09:16 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Ludvig Bystrom
I would fear drafting anybody named Ludvig because it would remind me to much of


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Old
05-26-2012, 09:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Thankfully, none of the aforementioned will factor into the selection at all. The draft is Stu MacGregor's decision, and he is very diplomatic with the opinions of all his scouts in coming to a consensus. We have learned this from the Oil Change episodes. We saw Stu have the final say in Tambo trying to move up and whether potential packages were worth the risk (these packages were only picks though). Stu and his staff have the only say that matters. That said, Stu is a big fan of Murray, but he and his staff have a job to do and that is to find the best player available. Everything to this point suggests that is Yakupov. The only thing that could change that would be a horrible interview and/or a ridiculously poor showing at the combine that might make you question his drive/work ethic. Every report to this point suggests he is the hardest worker off the ice on his junior team.

This mock draft was likely jotted on a McDonald's napkin as a time killer. The guy just has the benefit of having a means of getting it out there. Doesn't mean its remotely credible.
To be clear, I am not agreeing with the mock draft logic, and furthermore that mock draft did absolutely nothing for me.

And I also said that, in essence, certain stars had to be aligned for that scenario to play out.

But that being said, although I can say I'm almost 100% sure that the Oilers will take Yakupov, there is still a lingering feeling inside me that Oilers management, particularly Lowe, might interfere this time with the Oilers scouts. Here's a possible if unlikely scenario that could happen.

When Oil Change was made, the Oilers had nothing to build on. Oilers management knew they had to start somewhere, anywhere, so they let their scouts do their jobs. Jump two seasons later, and the team now has a solid nucleus at forward to work with for a long time. Adding Yakupov would make them even better long-term.

However, this is still a team that needs defense BADLY. I do not care about injuries: they are not a good collection of defenders. In the system lies many projects, such as Marincin and Klefbom. Unlike on offense, they do not have that surefire prospect/young defender in their system.

That is why I'm suggesting that it would not be impossible for Murray to go to Edmonton with the first pick. While I do not project Murray to be a No. 1 guy, I do think that he can probably step up next season right away and be a solid contributor. Perhaps Oilers management are thinking that too.

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05-26-2012, 10:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Endersoldier View Post
To be clear, I am not agreeing with the mock draft logic, and furthermore that mock draft did absolutely nothing for me.

And I also said that, in essence, certain stars had to be aligned for that scenario to play out.

But that being said, although I can say I'm almost 100% sure that the Oilers will take Yakupov, there is still a lingering feeling inside me that Oilers management, particularly Lowe, might interfere this time with the Oilers scouts. Here's a possible if unlikely scenario that could happen.

When Oil Change was made, the Oilers had nothing to build on. Oilers management knew they had to start somewhere, anywhere, so they let their scouts do their jobs. Jump two seasons later, and the team now has a solid nucleus at forward to work with for a long time. Adding Yakupov would make them even better long-term.

However, this is still a team that needs defense BADLY. I do not care about injuries: they are not a good collection of defenders. In the system lies many projects, such as Marincin and Klefbom. Unlike on offense, they do not have that surefire prospect/young defender in their system.

That is why I'm suggesting that it would not be impossible for Murray to go to Edmonton with the first pick. While I do not project Murray to be a No. 1 guy, I do think that he can probably step up next season right away and be a solid contributor. Perhaps Oilers management are thinking that too.
Again, there is always a chance anything can happen, but we both seem to agree Yakupov is almost certainly the guy. However, I have a problem with the bolded statements.....

1) Management didn't "let their scouts do their job," they let the scouts do what scouts do - identify talent and decide who has the best long-term potential. I'm not sure what would change this time around. Stu gets the consensus and takes it to Tambo. If that ends up being Murray, we must simply trust the scouts have identified something the average hockey fan simply does not see. It will have nothing to do with Lowe.

2) Yes we need D, and yes Murray could play as early next year. But as far as next year, is Murray honestly better than options on the free agent market (say a Denis Wideman)? No. Long-term he could be a top pair guy, but not next year, and that's when we need the impact if we were foolish enough to draft based on need.

3) I think Klefbom is as surefire a top 4 defender as we could hope for. He's one more year away from making the team and likely 3 from an impact, but I don't think thats far off what you'd get from Murray.

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05-26-2012, 10:41 PM
  #79
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Lowe has said 3 things that I believe will mean we are taking Yakupov.
1. They are not trading the pick unless massive over-payment is offered by another team.
2. The scouts have been asked to pick someone who they believe will be the best in the long term.
3. With the #1 pick, you do not draft for need.

I admit that it's easier for me to picture Murray in an Oilers jersey than it is for Yakupov. I want him, but not willing to take him over Yakupov at #1 nor am I willing to trade down to #2.

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05-26-2012, 10:47 PM
  #80
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You could trade Hall for #2+Rick Nash and take Murray.

Eberle RNH Yakupov
Nash Gagner Hemsky
Omark Horcoff Paajarvi
Jones Belanger Eager

Murray Whitney
Schultz Smid
Petry Peckham

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05-26-2012, 11:02 PM
  #81
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^ 2nd and Nash for Hall seems unfair to the CBJ.... I'd take it and run but Edmonton would kill Oilers management if Hall was traded. I will politely decline.

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05-27-2012, 12:05 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Again, there is always a chance anything can happen, but we both seem to agree Yakupov is almost certainly the guy. However, I have a problem with the bolded statements.....

1) Management didn't "let their scouts do their job," they let the scouts do what scouts do - identify talent and decide who has the best long-term potential. I'm not sure what would change this time around. Stu gets the consensus and takes it to Tambo. If that ends up being Murray, we must simply trust the scouts have identified something the average hockey fan simply does not see. It will have nothing to do with Lowe.

2) Yes we need D, and yes Murray could play as early next year. But as far as next year, is Murray honestly better than options on the free agent market (say a Denis Wideman)? No. Long-term he could be a top pair guy, but not next year, and that's when we need the impact if we were foolish enough to draft based on need.

3) I think Klefbom is as surefire a top 4 defender as we could hope for. He's one more year away from making the team and likely 3 from an impact, but I don't think thats far off what you'd get from Murray.
I like a good civilized back and forth match. Much like you, the bolded is stuff I would like to contend.

1) On the first note, you actually repeated what I said. They let the scouts their job, i.e. what scouts are supposed to do. Did you think I meant it in a "scouts did the GM's job?" way? Pardon if that's where the confusion lay.

2) You obviously have more trust in the organization, and by extension Kevin Lowe, than I do. I suppose this is something we'll simply have to "disagree" on, although I will note that I do not necessarily think that he will butt in. I'm just suggesting there's a chance he might. Do I trust that he will not meddle? Definitely more yes than no in this case, but I'll leave that little 5% out there for speculation.

3) More of a side note, but I'm a Habs fan second, Boston fan third, Hockey fan first. I get to see quite a bit of Wideman. He would definitely outscore Murray, but I'd put my life on Murray being quite a bit better defensively than Wideman right now. Wideman is anywhere from bad to downright awful defensively. Most Boston fans would concur.

4) I won't disagree with your argument on top-end potential. I think they are rather similar in this regard, and long term I think they would be pretty equal. I do disagree on NHL readiness. I think Murray is a guy who could step right in next year and be solid defensively, while Klefbom needs more than another year before he makes it to the NHL, let alone a top-4 role. My personal opinion: Murray is a surefire NHLer, while Klefbom is more a project, although their upsides are rather similar.

In the end, though, perhaps most of these points are meaningless. My argument is based mostly on number two. It does not matter what I think of Klefbom or Murray as players, or Wideman for that matter. Heck, I am putting on my money on Yakupov being taken by the Oilers. The original intention of the argument was to state a possibility where the Oilers may go in that direction and why they might go there. Nothing is impossible.

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05-27-2012, 12:10 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Endersoldier View Post
2) You obviously have more trust in the organization, and by extension Kevin Lowe, than I do. I suppose this is something we'll simply have to "disagree" on, although I will note that I do not necessarily think that he will butt in. I'm just suggesting there's a chance he might. Do I trust that he will not meddle? Definitely more yes than no in this case, but I'll leave that little 5% out there for speculation.
I highly doubt he would meddle, as it's not his department, but if he were to, he seems to like Yakupov as much as anyone.

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05-27-2012, 12:16 AM
  #84
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Andrei Vasilevski to Hawks

I would be happy ,, The rest of the Hawks fanbase would not

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05-27-2012, 12:17 AM
  #85
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I highly doubt he would meddle, as it's not his department, but if he were to, he seems to like Yakupov as much as anyone.
I could've worded it a bit better there, but all I can stay is read the end of my post. I'm trying to provide an instance where it could translate into Murray going to the Oilers at no. 1, and if it were to happen, I think Lowe would have a hand in it. Not saying he will. I highly doubt he will. But I do think there is the slightest of chances, nothing more.

Going back to the actual topic at hand, I have feeling that Maatta will go higher than listed here, although his position is not actually out to lunch compared to other mocks. I think it will be hard to ignore his playoff performance, and I myself do not find him to be that far off from Murray at first glance. I think he goes ahead of some of those forwards listed above him.


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05-27-2012, 12:36 AM
  #86
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I'd be pretty shocked if we went into the draft with the top pick and didn't leave with the best player, unless we got a massive return.

We have seen it 2 years in a row, yet somehow people's memories are pretty selective. Anyways, the Oilers will never draft for need at #1, and they will take the best player on their list.

2 years ago we had plenty of wingers in Eberle, Paajarvi, and Hemsky, so everyone said we'd take our #1 centre, but we passed on Seguin for Hall.

Last year everyone said since Hall was picked we had too many forwards and we would just take Larsson 1st because we need dmen desperately, but we took the best player and ended up with our 1C.

I'll be very upset if we don't leave the draft with Yakupov or big overpayment. Since I don't think teams will pay the asking price, I'll guess we will take Nail and then sit back and do nothing for 3 hours.

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05-27-2012, 12:41 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Endersoldier View Post
I could've worded it a bit better there, but all I can stay is read the end of my post. I'm trying to provide an instance where it could translate into Murray going to the Oilers at no. 1, and if it were to happen, I think Lowe would have a hand in it. Not saying he will. I highly doubt he will. But I do think there is the slightest of chances, nothing more.
I guess anything's possible, but I'm saying if Lowe does get his way, it seems to many that he likes Yakupov more than Murray anyway.

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05-27-2012, 12:57 AM
  #88
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I guess anything's possible, but I'm saying if Lowe does get his way, it seems to many that he likes Yakupov more than Murray anyway.
Fair enough.

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05-27-2012, 03:44 AM
  #89
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I skipped to Philly's pick and I can tell you that they will not be drafting a forward in the first and are not looking to add grit, but skill on the back end. Most likely a scoring defense man. So this mock draft sucks. As far as the Russian going at #3...well that's laughable. The only way I can see Edmonton not snagging him up is if they trade down.

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05-27-2012, 10:17 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I'd be pretty shocked if we went into the draft with the top pick and didn't leave with the best player, unless we got a massive return.

We have seen it 2 years in a row, yet somehow people's memories are pretty selective. Anyways, the Oilers will never draft for need at #1, and they will take the best player on their list.

2 years ago we had plenty of wingers in Eberle, Paajarvi, and Hemsky, so everyone said we'd take our #1 centre, but we passed on Seguin for Hall.

Last year everyone said since Hall was picked we had too many forwards and we would just take Larsson 1st because we need dmen desperately, but we took the best player and ended up with our 1C.

I'll be very upset if we don't leave the draft with Yakupov or big overpayment. Since I don't think teams will pay the asking price, I'll guess we will take Nail and then sit back and do nothing for 3 hours.
I doubt that teams would ask your asking price since the gap between a guy like Nail and Murray isn't very large at all.


Passed on Seguin for Hall? There was no clear #1 guy in that year and Hall has developed quite nicely.

I think Edmonton fans need to realize that it doesn't matter how many top end potential forwards you have teams need to have strong defenses and puck movers on the back end, something Edmonton really lacks.

If they end up taking Murray and signing a defensive free agent the team will be on it's way, if they take Nail they will be okay too but still need to fill the hole and desperate need on the back end.

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05-27-2012, 10:19 AM
  #91
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Murray, Yakupov, Lindholm, Samuelsson...I don't even know where to start.

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05-27-2012, 10:23 AM
  #92
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Im would not be shocked if EDM went Murray...
No one should be.

I'm not saying this to get Yak, as Cbus might grab him, but if they take Murray it's not a real surprise to me.

This whole "w3 r goin 2 drft yaks den sing Schultz... we b best.." Is most Oilers fans dream that they like to project to reality.

Either way, draft Gally, or Murray is fine by me.

Also, I believe the Oilers should draft Yak and deal Hall.

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05-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You could trade Hall for #2+Rick Nash and take Murray.

Eberle RNH Yakupov
Nash Gagner Hemsky
Omark Horcoff Paajarvi
Jones Belanger Eager

Murray Whitney
Schultz Smid
Petry Peckham
Are you awake yet?

I love Hall as a player but there is no way you get Nash and a 2nd, you only get one.

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05-27-2012, 10:37 AM
  #94
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Not sure if serious.... Yakupov is as consensus as it gets, i haven't seen him ranked below 1 anywhere. RNH was the consensus #1 last year and Yakupov is even more consensus this season. Do YOU know the meaning of the word?
I won't disagree that Nail is the consensus #1 but it's not a Lemieux-Muller gap.

It's very likely that 5 of the top 10 guys can be stars much like the 09 and 11 draft.

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05-27-2012, 10:40 AM
  #95
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I doubt that teams would ask your asking price since the gap between a guy like Nail and Murray isn't very large at all.
That's your opinion, but is there any reason we'd listen to you over the professionals that say the gap is quite large?

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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I think Edmonton fans need to realize that it doesn't matter how many top end potential forwards you have teams need to have strong defenses and puck movers on the back end, something Edmonton really lacks.

If they end up taking Murray and signing a defensive free agent the team will be on it's way, if they take Nail they will be okay too but still need to fill the hole and desperate need on the back end.
There are much better ways to find decent d-men without giving up the 1st overall pick. People seem to think that's what they need to give up to get a decent d-man.

A lot of excellent defensemen have been traded in the last ten years. As far as I know, the 1st overall pick hasn't been involved in any of them.

Taking anyone other than the consensus number one pick doesn't make any sense for the franchise.

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05-27-2012, 10:48 AM
  #96
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Wow that was awful, just awful.

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05-27-2012, 11:00 AM
  #97
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Scrolled down, saw #1, scrolled a bit more and saw #2 and closed it instantly. ****ing awful.

Got the Stars' pick right, at least.
How would you know that if you "closed it instantly" after viewing the second overall pick?

I agree that Girgensons is the right guy for the Stars... but don't forget that the Stars were built by the guy who is in charge of St. Louis now, and Girgensons would be a great fit in St. Louis, too. I would not discount the possibility of Doug Armstrong trading up to be able to pick a guy like Girgensons.

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05-27-2012, 11:05 AM
  #98
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If the Canes get the 2nd best player in the draft all the way down at #8, drinks are on me.

Of course, Montreal's buying the next round if the best player falls to them at #3.

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05-27-2012, 11:13 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
That's your opinion, but is there any reason we'd listen to you over the professionals that say the gap is quite large?



There are much better ways to find decent d-men without giving up the 1st overall pick. People seem to think that's what they need to give up to get a decent d-man.

A lot of excellent defensemen have been traded in the last ten years. As far as I know, the 1st overall pick hasn't been involved in any of them.

Taking anyone other than the consensus number one pick doesn't make any sense for the franchise.
Grigorenko wouldn't be a bad pick for Edmonton either but some people are making it out to be Nail then a large gap before everyone else and in my viewing that hasn't been the case.

Ironically picking 1st might not be as desirable as it seems for Edmonton fans.

Also good luck on the free agent front we all know how that has worked out in the past.

If Edmonton feels Nail is the clear #1 they should take him, if they think that Grigor or Murray are in the mix they should consider their team makeup, both now and going forward as well.

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05-27-2012, 11:40 AM
  #100
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I doubt that teams would ask your asking price since the gap between a guy like Nail and Murray isn't very large at all.
I think from everything I read it is quite large. I from what I have seen even larger.

Most scouts are now projecting Murray to be a number 2/3 D man, not even a teams franchise d man. That makes it a huge drop from a franchise winger to a non franchise D. If this was the difference between a Hall and Sequin I would say choose Murray in an instance, but its just not that close. I think Button has Murray as something like the 6th best D man in this draft, and while I do not always agree with Button, I think it goes to show at the very least that Murray has done nothing to separate himself from the pack.

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