HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Sekera was the Sabres BEST defensemen

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-25-2012, 10:36 AM
  #51
truthbluth
Registered User
 
truthbluth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Ok, so what you are saying is if you had a choice to start a team and you can pick one of Sekera, Ehrhoff or Myers you would pick Sekera. Sounds logical to me, continue.

Also it is a bad arguement to say that we didnt make the playoffs because our other defencemen preformed so poorly it allowed Sekera to be called the best of the bunch.

Hey if you are happy with this all the more power to you. I care about wins, loses and playoffs and as Sekera with the best "stats" on the team we didnt make it. PERIOD
Sorry, but it was obvious to anyone watching without preconceived notions that on MOST nights, Sekera was the best Sabres defenseman. I would never argue with anyone who says that Sekera plays an absolute stinker every once in a while. That's totally true. But (this is just from watching the games, not statistical analysis), Sekera is better at the following things than any other Sabre:
  1. Patiently clearing the puck
  2. Avoiding forecheckers
  3. Sticking to his guy without the puck
Those three things are obvious when you watch the games. Erhoff is about 50% on clearing the puck. Myers frequently loses his guy. Also, they both cough up the puck way too much in their own zone. Sekera does a pretty good job of not doing that (on most nights). I understand the hesitation about Sekera because he's not really physical, doesn't possess a great shot, and while a very good skater, isn't Brian Campbell. But he plays a very sound game fundamentally, and isn't a liability in any facet of his game.

This isn't a case where the stats are better than his actual play, but rather, this is a case where the stats prove how effective a simple, heady game can be. He's not a franchise defenseman, which is I think what you are getting at, but Jame's point is that he's very very good at what he does.

There is literally no logical argument that you can make that Sekera's play prevented the Sabres from making the playoffs. If your point is that Myers and Erhoff need to play better for the Sabres to make the playoffs, that makes sense, but I would argue that they don't need to outperform Sekera to be better. Myers should be able to (based on sheer physical ability), but if he were just to raise his game to the level of Sekera, that would probably be enough to significantly improve the Sabres record.

truthbluth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 11:14 AM
  #52
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 37,092
vCash: 500
I get the argument.

Myers and Ehrhoff SHOULD be better than Sekera.

This season they weren't. That's not a knock on Sekera, it's simply saying as good as Sekera is, the expectation is higher for Myers and Ehrhoff. And them not living up to expectations is one of the reasons we missed the playoffs.

Now, I'm not necessarily sure I agree with it (especially when you factor in injuries and role on the team), but it is a legitimate argument.

New Sabres Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 11:41 AM
  #53
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 8,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
You are still comparing Sekera to Sabres. His overall numbers LEAGUE WIDE were TOP 40. That has no relation to how other Sabre defensemen played. That's based on what Sekera did, not what others didn't do.
That's the point I was trying to stress as well. It isn't as if Sekera's numbers were poor and the best only on his team. They were very, very good numbers when compared to others around the league. That's a success.

This influx of jump-to-conclusion, I'm-right-you're-wrong posters lately is annoying.

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 11:57 AM
  #54
Duddy
Everyday is
 
Duddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,340
vCash: 500
we'd have a pretty deep blue line if Rej were our 40th best Dman last season.

Duddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:01 PM
  #55
drinking bleach irl
p trendy tbh
 
drinking bleach irl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 10,194
vCash: 300
Psh, I liked Sekera before he was cool.

And argued he was a top-2 Dman before it was accurate.


drinking bleach irl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:24 PM
  #56
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Ok, so what you are saying is if you had a choice to start a team and you can pick one of Sekera, Ehrhoff or Myers you would pick Sekera. Sounds logical to me, continue.

Also it is a bad arguement to say that we didnt make the playoffs because our other defencemen preformed so poorly it allowed Sekera to be called the best of the bunch.

Hey if you are happy with this all the more power to you. I care about wins, loses and playoffs and as Sekera with the best "stats" on the team we didnt make it. PERIOD



Sekera isn't being called the best, because the others performed poorly. He's the being called the best because he performed the best... and it was comparable to the best AROUND THE LEAGUE

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #57
Dubi Doo
Registered User
 
Dubi Doo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,158
vCash: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post


Sekera isn't being called the best, because the others performed poorly. He's the being called the best because he performed the best... and it was comparable to the best AROUND THE LEAGUE
Yea...reading this thread is annoying. Sekera had a great season regardless how the other sabres performed. People are just finding reasons to argue, and making lame reasons to slight him.

Dubi Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:38 PM
  #58
stokes84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Sekera was the best at playing his role. When he had to step up and play the role that Myers and Ehrhoff were asked to play on a nightly basis, he was terrible.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:47 PM
  #59
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,258
vCash: 500
His development into a shutdown defenseman partially allowed Myers to break out of his slump by playing (and dominating) against weaker competition for the first time in his career.

Sidebar: Jame, I don't get your infatuation with Sekera/Myers. It's never been a particularly great pairing, not this season, not last. Both guys are at their best aggressively challenging puck carriers in transition, lugging the mail up ice and pinching down low, and unless they go into camp with the explicit intention of learning how to trade off with each other, they don't compliment each other well. I'd rather turn Leopold into a similarly paid/skilled defensive defenseman (or Tobias Enstrom) and roll:

X-Myers
Sulzer-Hoff
Regehr-Sekera

With the Myers and Sekera pairings trading shutdown assignments depending on the matchup. The 2009 Pens had a bunch of success with a similar allotment of TOI (featuring Ehrhoff as Letang, Myers as Gonchar and Regehr/Sekera as Gill/Scuderi).

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:48 PM
  #60
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Sekera was the best at playing his role. When he had to step up and play the role that Myers and Ehrhoff were asked to play on a nightly basis, he was terrible.
You are clueless about the roles these defensemen played this past season.

It's annoying that you are too stubborn to learn

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:51 PM
  #61
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Sekera was the best at playing his role. When he had to step up and play the role that Myers and Ehrhoff were asked to play on a nightly basis, he was terrible.
No, he was bad when he was asked to consciously create offense in addition to the shutdown minutes he was playing. It had nothing to do with TOI.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #62
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
His development into a shutdown defenseman partially allowed Myers to break out of his slump by playing (and dominating) against weaker competition for the first time in his career.
\

completely agree. Myers turnaround in the 2nd half is thanks to Sekeras assumption and success with the shutdown role.

Quote:
Sidebar: Jame, I don't get your infatuation with Sekera/Myers. It's never been a particularly great pairing, not this season, not last. Both guys are at their best aggressively challenging puck carriers in transition, lugging the mail up ice and pinching down low, and unless they go into camp with the explicit intention of learning how to trade off with each other, they don't compliment each other well. I'd rather turn Leopold into a similarly paid/skilled defensive defenseman (or Tobias Enstrom) and roll:
I think this pairing had quite a bit of success in 2nd half 2010-2011

Quote:
X-Myers
Sulzer-Hoff
Regehr-Sekera

With the Myers and Sekera pairings trading shutdown assignments depending on the matchup. The 2009 Pens had a bunch of success with a similar allotment of TOI (featuring Ehrhoff as Letang, Myers as Gonchar and Regehr/Sekera as Gill/Scuderi).
That's certainly an option.

I like the idea of a mobile, all situations, win with feet and poise, 1st pairing

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:55 PM
  #63
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
No, he was bad when he was asked to consciously create offense in addition to the shutdown minutes he was playing. It had nothing to do with TOI.
I don't even think he was bad at that... I think he made 2 gaffes on the PP... and one toronto ES play that stands out... and someone associated those 3 plays with minutes to come up with a lazy opinion.

The facts don't lie. Sekera was awesome... and he was incredibily underrated in his offensive ability... primarily because he is the best puck possession defensemen on the team, and the offense flows through him as possession transitions up ice... it just doesnt lead to a lot of points because his ozone playmaking is not a strong suit of his game... (while his D and N zone abilities still lead to quite a bit of offensive production, as demonstrated by his HIGHER GF per 60 Mins ES.... higher then Myers)

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:57 PM
  #64
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,042
vCash: 500
Got to keep him under 22 minutes though...

thefifagod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:58 PM
  #65
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,258
vCash: 500
I remember that pairing being good but not great down the stretch in 2011 ("safe" is the best word I can think of), but I also recall being way higher on both guys when each was allowed to do his own thing (Myers with Butler before Chris fell off in the playoffs and Sekera with a bunch of different partners). If those two can find chemistry though, great. They certainly have the potential to be solid partners, it's just a question of the coaching staff making it explicitly clear how they want the pairing to operate and when to activate or support the other guy.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 12:59 PM
  #66
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
more fun....

Sekera's GF per 60 ES On ice... was better then Myers LAST year too
Sekera was 2nd in QoC... LAST YEAR too (Myers was #1... as opposed to being #5 this year)
Sekera was #1 in GF/GA per 60 ES on ice .... LAST YEAR
Sekera's Pts per 60 was better then Myers.... LAST YEAR

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 01:35 PM
  #67
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 500
These are all objective statistics so I will go against my personal opinion that Ehrhoff was the better defenseman and concur that apparently Sekera was our most effective d-man. That being said, can we account for the drop off in play that I feel he experienced during the stretch run? He had 1 point in March and was a -4 in April. He also seemed prone to turnovers on the PP during that period. I have always been a big Reggie fan and Jame's post only further solidifies that but he definitely has some mental lapses.

buffalowing88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 01:44 PM
  #68
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
These are all objective statistics so I will go against my personal opinion that Ehrhoff was the better defenseman and concur that apparently Sekera was our most effective d-man. That being said, can we account for the drop off in play that I feel he experienced during the stretch run? He had 1 point in March and was a -4 in April. He also seemed prone to turnovers on the PP during that period. I have always been a big Reggie fan and Jame's post only further solidifies that but he definitely has some mental lapses.
he sure does... as do most defensemen not named lidstrom.

sometimes the few boneheaded plays stick out, while calm, cool, and collected, shut down shift after shift, goes largely unnoticed. as is proven by the mistake many make in not recognizing Sekera's growth into a true shut down defensemen.

Going into next season Sekera IS our best all around defensemen, and I want Myers paired with our best all around defensemen.

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 01:51 PM
  #69
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

sometimes the few boneheaded plays stick out, while calm, cool, and collected, shut down shift after shift, goes largely unnoticed. as is proven by the mistake many make in not recognizing Sekera's growth into a true shut down defensemen.
.
That's a good point. That's why I miss Tallinder to this day.

buffalowing88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 02:00 PM
  #70
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
That's a good point. That's why I miss Tallinder to this day.
i got lambasted back in the day for saying that letting Tallinder go was the worst decision the franchise had made since the co caps debacle (specifically related to how good he allowed Myers to be,and how important he was to the development of a then 19 yr old).

I said Myers would regress because of it.

Myers needs to be paired with someone who can play his style defensively (mobility, positioning, etc), but he has to be capable of shutdown abilities himself (Tallinder.... Sekera)

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 02:27 PM
  #71
revengeiseek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i got lambasted back in the day for saying that letting Tallinder go was the worst decision the franchise had made since the co caps debacle (specifically related to how good he allowed Myers to be,and how important he was to the development of a then 19 yr old).

I said Myers would regress because of it.

Myers needs to be paired with someone who can play his style defensively (mobility, positioning, etc), but he has to be capable of shutdown abilities himself (Tallinder.... Sekera)
I agree 100%. Sekera is very similar to Tallinder when he was paired with Myers his rookie year. I also agree that Sekera was far and away our best and most consistent D-man last year just from watching every game before you did that massive amount of home work..(Great 1st post btw.)

So why would people not want Myers paired with our best 2-way Dman..

revengeiseek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 02:27 PM
  #72
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
You are clueless about the roles these defensemen played this past season.

It's annoying that you are too stubborn to learn
This would have been a great discussion without calling people 'clueless', 'annoying', and 'stubborn'.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 02:40 PM
  #73
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
This would have been a great discussion without calling people 'clueless', 'annoying', and 'stubborn'.
Clueless : totally uninformed about what is going on; not having even a clue from which to infer what is occurring

example :
Quote:
Sekera was the best at playing his role. When he had to step up and play the role that Myers and Ehrhoff were asked to play on a nightly basis, he was terrible.

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 03:32 PM
  #74
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 4,918
vCash: 500
Whatever.

I love the work you put together here, but the constant, repeated insults of anyone who forms different opinions than you (even if those opinions don't make sense) is tiring.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #75
Jame
Dream '16
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,362
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Whatever.

I love the work you put together here, but the constant, repeated insults of anyone who forms different opinions than you (even if those opinions don't make sense) is tiring.
right... i should've just used an emoticon...

here instead of saying "clueless", i'll just do this...

Jame is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.