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Sekera was the Sabres BEST defensemen

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Old
05-25-2012, 04:53 PM
  #76
thefifagod
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Sekera was the best at playing his role. When he had to step up and play the role that Myers and Ehrhoff were asked to play on a nightly basis, he was terrible.
Honest question: What do you consider Sekera's "role" to be? Everyone bashed on you in the Sekera thread you made so I don't feel the need to do it again but this just reeks of an agenda.


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05-25-2012, 05:06 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Sekera is about to turn 26, and hit his prime, and his locked up for 3 of those prime years at an absolute steal.
This is the part that really stands out to me. Sekera has been a real nice player for the Sabres for the past couple of years, but he is poised to get much better and we get to keep him for a very low cap hit. If Tyler Myers doesn't show a good improvement next year, paying $5.5m for him is going to hurt. Ehrhoff has probably hit his peak and needs to stay there. But Sekera, who is supposed to be behind those guys on the depth chart, has already surpassed them and is probably going to continue improving. This is a player to be really excited about as fans, and to hang on to as a team.

I don't understand all of the top 40 talk though. Are you guys being literal, like is there a list of the top 40 defensemen I can go look at somewhere? Or is this a figure of speech, like he's really good, therefor "top 40?"

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05-25-2012, 05:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
This is the part that really stands out to me. Sekera has been a real nice player for the Sabres for the past couple of years, but he is poised to get much better and we get to keep him for a very low cap hit. If Tyler Myers doesn't show a good improvement next year, paying $5.5m for him is going to hurt. Ehrhoff has probably hit his peak and needs to stay there. But Sekera, who is supposed to be behind those guys on the depth chart, has already surpassed them and is probably going to continue improving. This is a player to be really excited about as fans, and to hang on to as a team.

I don't understand all of the top 40 talk though. Are you guys being literal, like is there a list of the top 40 defensemen I can go look at somewhere? Or is this a figure of speech, like he's really good, therefor "top 40?"
He was top 40 in quality of competition. And among those 40, he was mid 20s in GF/GA differential.

That to me is a good barometer for top defensemen. play against the top lines and be successful at both ends.

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05-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I get the argument.

Myers and Ehrhoff SHOULD be better than Sekera.

This season they weren't. That's not a knock on Sekera, it's simply saying as good as Sekera is, the expectation is higher for Myers and Ehrhoff. And them not living up to expectations is one of the reasons we missed the playoffs.

Now, I'm not necessarily sure I agree with it (especially when you factor in injuries and role on the team), but it is a legitimate argument.
Bingo!

Also the most important stat if all stats....what is our win lose record with these guys in and out of the lineup?
Not to mention I dont care about Sekera I care about winning the cup.

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05-25-2012, 05:30 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
He was top 40 in quality of competition. And among those 40, he was mid 20s in GF/GA differential.

That to me is a good barometer for top defensemen. play against the top lines and be successful at both ends.
Cool beans he is a top defenceman....can we get Staal for him straight up?
Can we get Staal for Myers straight up?

Ahh screw it lets build our team around Sekera! You win Jame

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05-25-2012, 06:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Bingo!

Also the most important stat if all stats....what is our win lose record with these guys in and out of the lineup?
Not to mention I dont care about Sekera I care about winning the cup.
So, you surrender with this cop out?

You're missing the point. Jame formed the opinion that Sekera was the Sabres' best defenseman last season, and top 40 league-wide. If Myers improves and Ehrhoff plays better, isn't there a chance that Buffalo could have three top 40 defensemen?

You're argument is connecting unrelated facts- Sekera's great performance and the Sabres missing the playoffs. Try to logically link them. I can't . . .

If you're argument is that "Buffalo won't make the playoffs if Myers doesn't develop and Ehrhoff isn't great," I could get on board. But you're not, and that's baffling.

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05-25-2012, 06:57 PM
  #82
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Well done Jame. Sekera was a revelation this year taking his game to another level. His defensive game in particular has been fantastic. I'm not sure there is much more growth left for his game. Frankly there doesn't need to be. Some would argue his offense has some untapped potential left. I just don't see much more there but you never know. I'm content enjoying the player we currently have.

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05-25-2012, 06:57 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
So, you surrender with this cop out?

You're missing the point. Jame formed the opinion that Sekera was the Sabres' best defenseman last season, and top 40 league-wide. If Myers improves and Ehrhoff plays better, isn't there a chance that Buffalo could have three top 40 defensemen?

You're argument is connecting unrelated facts- Sekera's great performance and the Sabres missing the playoffs. Try to logically link them. I can't . . .

If you're argument is that "Buffalo won't make the playoffs if Myers doesn't develop and Ehrhoff isn't great," I could get on board. But you're not, and that's baffling.
Sure and Sekera could regress, myers could break his ankle, Miller could get a concussion. Last year is over. Next year only matters come april-june.

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05-25-2012, 07:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Go ahead and rank these 6 defensemen based on their total performance this past season... if you come out with a ranking that doesn't have Sekera as #1, then you're doing it wrong.

EVEN STRENGTH

Quality of Competition
1. Regehr +0.065
2. Sekera +0.038
3. Weber +0.002
4. Ehrhoff -0.004
5. Myers -0.013
6. Leopold -0.023

Goals Against per 60 on ice
1. Myers 1.97
2. Regehr 2.01
3. Sekera 2.19
4. Leopold 2.40
5. Ehrhoff 2.70
6. Weber 2.81

What did we learn?
- Regehr and Sekera faced toughest competition and both performed very well in that role defensively
- Weber needs to be protected from tougher competition
- Myers was able to dominate defensively against weaker competition
- Leopold and Ehrhoff are not very good defensively, are given freedom to take more chances

Quality of Teammate
1. Ehrhoff +0.081
2. Weber +0.053
3. Regehr -0.008
4. Myers -0.013
5. Sekera -0.053
6. Leopold -0.056

Goals for per 60 on ice
1. Ehrhoff 2.85
2. Leopold 2.62
3. Sekera 2.51
4. Myers 2.47
5. Regehr 1.50
6. Weber 1.37

What did we learn?
- Ehrhoff gets a lot of ice with the scoring forwards
- Sekera does not get such ice time, and yet still produces offensively at a similar rate to Myers and Leopold
- Regehr and Weber are terrible offensively.

+/- On ice per 60
1. Myers +0.51
2. Sekera +0.32
3. Leopold +0.22
4. Ehrhoff +0.15
5. Regehr -0.52
6. Weber -1.44

What did we learn?
- Myers is #1, but has weaker competition and better linemates
- Sekera is #2, while having stronger competition and weaker linemates
- Leopold and Ehrhoff overcome their weaknesses defensively, with their strengths offensively. The need to continue to avoid strong matchups
- Weber is bad
- Regehr's play is acceptable, even though the end result is a negative. We know he faces the best competition and has no abilities outside his own zone.

+/- Off ice per 60
1. Sekera -0.03
2. Leopold -0.02
3. Myers +0.03
4. Weber +0.28
5. Ehrhoff +0.35
6. Regehr +0.40

Corsi ON ice (difference in SAF v SAA)
1. Sekera +1.93
2. Ehrhoff +0.86
3. Leopold -3.71
4. Weber -4.10
5. Myers -7.17
6. Regehr -10.88

Corsi OFF ice
1. Sekera -5.35
2. Ehrhoff -3.02
3. Weber -1.02
4. Leopold -0.63
5. Myers -0.03
6. Regehr +3.03

What did we learn?
- Even though Sekera faces some of the top matchups, he still has the best differential between his On ice/Off ice numbers. The Sabres are at their absolute best when Sekera is on the ice....Why? Because he keeps the opponent out of our zone, and we possess the puck MORE when he is on the ice then any other defensemen. We limit shot attempts the most when he is on the ice. We create the most shot attemtps for ourselves when he is on the ice. And he does all of that with some of the weaker linemates on the team...

the last time I checked, you can't get scored on when you have the puck (all due respect to Mike Ryan and Geoff Sanderson)

Off Zone Starts
1. Ehrhoff
2. Leopold
3. Myers
4. Sekera
5. Weber
6. Regehr

Off Zone Finish
1. Sekera
2. Ehrhoff
3. Leopold
4. Myers
5. Regehr
6. Weber

Sekera doesn't get the benefit of top offensive zone starts, yet finishes there the most... one of the most important stats you don't notice IMO

interesting stats:
1. Sekera, while being a distant 4th in pts per 60... he does happen to be 2nd in secondary assists per 60... anyone want to venture a guess why?
2. Only defensemen with more penalties drawn, then penalties taken

POWER PLAY

Goals For per 60 of PP
1. Ehrhoff 7.23
2. Sekera 5.93
3. Myers 5.50
4. Leopold 4.52

Shots For per 60 of PP
1. Ehrhoff 49.0
2. Sekera 45.4
3. Leopold 44.4
4. Myers 39.4

Shots Blocked by opponent per 60 ON
1. Sekera 17.8
2. Leopold 26.0
3. Ehrhoff 26.3
4. Myers 28.9

SHORT HANDED

Shots Against per 60 Short
1. Sekera
2. Ehrhoff
3. Regehr
4. Leopold
5. Weber
6. Myers

Shots Blocked per 60 Short
1. Regehr 26.5
2. Sekera 25.4
3. Myers 22.9
4. Leopold 21.9
5. Weber 20.6
6. Ehrhoff 16.7

Goals Against per 60 Short
1. Ehrhoff 4.17
2. Weber 4.26
3. Myers 6.55
4. Leopold 7.40
5. Sekera 7.56
6. Regehr 8.73

--------------------------

My overall ranking of these 6 defensemen based on the entirety of their performance taken into account with their role is as follows.


1. Sekera (By a mile)

2-5 the other others

6. Weber (the way lindy uses his pairs, there is no where to hide him)
Where are the point stats in this entirety? If you put Sulzer in there it makes Sekera look bad. Plus when I look up stats Jame is bragging about and compare them to other NHL players we get Boychuk, Steve Matador, Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo, Alec Martinez, Adrian Aucoin, Nick Leddy, Andrew Ference ect. ect. ect... according to Jame stats these are the new leaders of the NHL
Not to mention you also left off about 10 other stats that I am sure Sekera did poorly in. Hey Steve Matador made it on the top 20!!!!!!

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...42+43+44+45+46


Last edited by heartsabres*: 05-25-2012 at 07:37 PM.
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05-25-2012, 07:34 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Where are the point stats in this entirety? If you put Sulzer in there it makes Sekera look bad. Plus when I look up stats Jame is bragging about and compare them to other NHL players we get Boychuk, Steve Matador, Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo, Alec Martinez ect. ect. ect... according to Jame stats these are the new leaders of the NHL
Not to mention you also left off about 10 other stats that I am sure Sekera did poorly in. Hey Steve Matador made it on the top 20!!!!!!

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...42+43+44+45+46
Well he did just play at a PPG in the worlds


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05-25-2012, 07:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Where are the point stats in this entirety? If you put Sulzer in there it makes Sekera look bad. Plus when I look up stats Jame is bragging about and compare them to other NHL players we get Boychuk, Steve Matador, Ian White, Carlo Colaiacovo, Alec Martinez, Adrian Aucoin, Nick Leddy, Andrew Ference ect. ect. ect... according to Jame stats these are the new leaders of the NHL
Not to mention you also left off about 10 other stats that I am sure Sekera did poorly in. Hey Steve Matador made it on the top 20!!!!!!

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...42+43+44+45+46
You're doing it wrong...

QOC
Steve Montador 178th
Alec Martinez 179th
Adrian Aucoin 136th

starting to get it yet?

You see... you look at QoC first, to determine ROLE. To understand who is really seeing the tough ice time, the hard matchups.

THEN

Among THOSE players... those top 40, or top 60... you look at THEIR GF/GA differential... relative to each other, as this group is a group that ALL face the top competion, top lines, top matchups.

the guys above...their GF/GA has no value outside the context of QoC

atleast you made some sense... with guys like Ian White, who played almost the entire year alongside Lidstrom, Boychuk next to Chara (i consider boychuk a top 40 defensemen regardless), Colaicovo next to Petriangelo. These guys you mentioned all spent the year on their teams respective TOP PAIR.

nice try though.. i know its a difficult concept when it invalidates everything you thought you knew


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05-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Sure and Sekera could regress, myers could break his ankle, Miller could get a concussion. Last year is over. Next year only matters come april-june.
Diversion is an argumentative fallacy.

Jame backed an opinion with some pretty convincing facts.

Awaiting your facts . . .

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05-26-2012, 12:25 AM
  #88
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Sekera was very consistent last season, I don't recall him struggling at all on a regular basis. A forgettable shift here and there but he really stayed focused this season.

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05-26-2012, 01:24 AM
  #89
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Well done Jame. Sekera was a revelation this year taking his game to another level. His defensive game in particular has been fantastic. I'm not sure there is much more growth left for his game. Frankly there doesn't need to be. Some would argue his offense has some untapped potential left. I just don't see much more there but you never know. I'm content enjoying the player we currently have.
Agreed, if Rej didn't get any better I'd still love the player he is. While I don't know if he necessarily has more offensive potential, I think he can definitely put up more points if he gets more PP time or plays with a partner that isn't Regehr so he doesn't get pinned in his own zone as much. But if he plays as good defensively as he did this year, I don't care if he doesn't put up more points, his ability to perform at a top level against top competition is plenty good enough.

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05-26-2012, 02:12 AM
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Awesome post Jame! Wish I could convince some of the idiots I work with to come on here and read your post!

And I still believe he has offensive potential left untapped. I am never able to get that stretch from 2 years ago where he had 2 points in 5 straight games. He was dominant and was a machine offensively. I have on idea who he was playing with or what kind of players he was being matched up against, and it was also directly after a suspension if I remember correctly, but he should score 2 points a game for an entire season!

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05-26-2012, 02:47 AM
  #91
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Awesome post Jame! Wish I could convince some of the idiots I work with to come on here and read your post!

And I still believe he has offensive potential left untapped. I am never able to get that stretch from 2 years ago where he had 2 points in 5 straight games. He was dominant and was a machine offensively. I have on idea who he was playing with or what kind of players he was being matched up against, and it was also directly after a suspension if I remember correctly, but he should score 2 points a game for an entire season!
There's more than tangible offensive potential untapped. He has progressively shown more and more how valuable to the breakout and the transition game when he's at his best. It reminds me of - yep - Brian Campbell. Crisp first-pass is the primary option, but if it's not there, take it yourself with a head of steam, clear the red and dump, and if the spot is right, forecheck after it for one push. Or clear the blue and set up in the offensive zone.

The more confidence he exhibits with the puck on his stick, the more dominant of a force and the greater of an asset he is. Fun to watch.

Love, too, that he turns in a year like this after getting his payday. Too often, we see that work the other way #drewwstaphyrd joking :mandate:

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05-26-2012, 02:50 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SirRocko View Post
Awesome post Jame! Wish I could convince some of the idiots I work with to come on here and read your post!

And I still believe he has offensive potential left untapped. I am never able to get that stretch from 2 years ago where he had 2 points in 5 straight games. He was dominant and was a machine offensively. I have on idea who he was playing with or what kind of players he was being matched up against, and it was also directly after a suspension if I remember correctly, but he should score 2 points a game for an entire season!
I remember the Red Wings game during that stretch where he was flat out dominant.

When Sekera is confident, there is really no limit to what he can do. He's had a fantastic season, a fantastic WC...as long as he comes into Training Camp with that mindset he's gonna do great.

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05-26-2012, 05:35 AM
  #93
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Ehrhoff was the best defenceman.

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05-26-2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
There's more than tangible offensive potential untapped. He has progressively shown more and more how valuable to the breakout and the transition game when he's at his best. It reminds me of - yep - Brian Campbell. Crisp first-pass is the primary option, but if it's not there, take it yourself with a head of steam, clear the red and dump, and if the spot is right, forecheck after it for one push. Or clear the blue and set up in the offensive zone.

The more confidence he exhibits with the puck on his stick, the more dominant of a force and the greater of an asset he is. Fun to watch.

Love, too, that he turns in a year like this after getting his payday. Too often, we see that work the other way #drewwstaphyrd joking :mandate:
My favorite part of Sekera's offensive game is his knack for shielding off defenders when he's carrying the puck in the offensive zone. It's so smooth. He's not a particularly big player but he's hard to knock off the puck.


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Ehrhoff was the best defenceman.
Ehrhoff was good. He wasn't better than Sekera.

It's telling that that is what your argument has turned into.

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05-26-2012, 09:29 AM
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My favorite part of Sekera's offensive game is his knack for shielding off defenders when he's carrying the puck in the offensive zone. It's so smooth. He's not a particularly big player but he's hard to knock off the puck.
Exactly. Well put. His skating ability is really pretty awesome, and while he's not physical physical, he knows how to use his body to protect and stay on the puck.

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05-26-2012, 09:48 AM
  #96
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Ehrhoff was the best defenceman.



Getting popcorn and waiting for the show to begin

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05-26-2012, 09:56 AM
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Getting popcorn and waiting for the show to begin
because he was :
4th in QoC
5th in GA per 60 (only Weber was worse)

but there is no doubt that he was our best defensemen offensively. but even with all that offense, he was still 4th in +/- On ice.

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05-26-2012, 10:17 AM
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If there's one area of Sekera's game he can improve on, it's his shot. Sekera isn't that good at getting his shots through from the point. And it shows in his goal totals. I think for the most part he makes smart plays, but if he can work on getting his shot going, he can be more productive offensively (not just from a goals standpoint, but also from the chances you get on tips/rebounds/etc.).

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05-26-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Honest question: What do you consider Sekera's "role" to be? Everyone bashed on you in the Sekera thread you made so I don't feel the need to do it again but this just reeks of an agenda.
I'll tell you what he's not: a minute eating top pairing defenseman.

The best defensemen are the ones who play the most. They play the most because they are better than the guys who play less. This is common sense.

I know another way you can tell who the best defensemen are: if they are out ofthe line up the team is much worse. When Ehrhoff and Myers are out, this is a bad team. When Sekera is out, they carry on like normal. Pretty telling.

Sekera is a good mid-pair defenseman that can play against other team top players. Who's really the one with the agenda, the guy who is trying to put him on a pedastle as our best defenseman, or me for saying he's a solid mid-pair guy, nothing more or less?

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05-26-2012, 12:32 PM
  #100
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This just in: Jordan Leopold is better than Andrej Sekera.

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