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Eklund: flames rumors- iggy trade,Laich(E3), jokinen

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Old
05-29-2012, 12:07 AM
  #51
Volica
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
We finish 13th in the west at best without Kipper. Many posters on this site vastly overrate the return we could get on Iginla and Bouwmeester in particular. If you think Iginla is not a defensive liability you don't know anything about hockey or have some severe homer glasses. His coach certainly thought he was.
I think most people value JBo perfectly. Jerome isn't a top end defensive player, but he is NOT a defensive liability. A defensive liability is Kovalchuk a la Thrasher days... when he's taking 2 minute skates between the blue lines while his team's trying to get the puck out their own end.

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05-29-2012, 12:10 AM
  #52
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
I think most people value JBo perfectly. Jerome isn't a top end defensive player, but he is NOT a defensive liability. A defensive liability is Kovalchuk a la Thrasher days... when he's taking 2 minute skates between the blue lines while his team's trying to get the puck out their own end.
That defines Iginla perfectly. He never gets the puck out when it comes up his wing, rarely backchecks and frequently flies the zone early. He's been called out on the 1st and 3rd points by Sutter multiple times. He used to be average defensively, now he's brutal.

When I see people making proposals of Bouwmeester for Stastny and Bouwmeester for a 1st and good prospect they certainly don't value him perfectly. It's universal outside of Calgary that you couldn't trade him for anything of significant value unless it's an overpaid guy like Lecavalier.

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05-29-2012, 12:21 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
We finish 13th in the west at best without Kipper. Many posters on this site vastly overrate the return we could get on Iginla and Bouwmeester in particular. If you think Iginla is not a defensive liability you don't know anything about hockey or have some severe homer glasses. His coach certainly thought he was.
Yes his coach must have thought he was a liability thats why he gave him the most forward minutes to him. He is not an elite shutdown player but he is also not a liability he is average at defense and one of the better shot blockers on the team. I don't know where you get your information about Sutter's opinion but biased on the fact that in other threads you have said that Wideman is as good as Jbo and that at most we can get a late first and a decent prospect for Iginla leads me to believe that you have anti homer glasses and choose to hate everything that we have.

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05-29-2012, 12:39 AM
  #54
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yes his coach must have thought he was a liability thats why he gave him the most forward minutes to him. He is not an elite shutdown player but he is also not a liability he is average at defense and one of the better shot blockers on the team. I don't know where you get your information about Sutter's opinion but biased on the fact that in other threads you have said that Wideman is as good as Jbo and that at most we can get a late first and a decent prospect for Iginla leads me to believe that you have anti homer glasses and choose to hate everything that we have.
I never said that. Iginla got his minutes because he's the best scorer we have. He didn't get the defensive zone starts. Those went to Glencross, Jokinen, Moss, Backlund, Stempniak and Jones. With the exception of Glencross and Moss none of the others are exceptional defensive players. Brent also avoided heads up 1st line match ups while other coaches sought them out.

I never said the bolded. I said mid 1st and good prospect. Look at what we got for Regehr and Phaneuf. When you send out a big ticket player you don't get as much back. We'd be getting a 1st, good prospect and 7 million dollar player(s) back. You could likely guarantee a signed Semin for that 7 million or have a shot at Suter or Parise. Basically the team dealing for Iginla is giving up 7 million in ufa's, the 1st and a good prospect. Would you trade Baertschi, our 1st and Semin for Iginla? Probably not right? You're asking another team to give up more than that. Not likely at all.

EDIT: Remember the original Jokinen trade? We lost Cammaleri, Lombardi and Gormley on that one. Would you make that move again? I get that Jokinen is no Iginla, but we didn't give up a prospect in that deal. Just a pick and the cap space that took Cammaleri to MTL.

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05-29-2012, 12:50 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I never said that. Iginla got his minutes because he's the best scorer we have. He didn't get the defensive zone starts. Those went to Glencross, Jokinen, Moss, Backlund, Stempniak and Jones. With the exception of Glencross and Moss none of the others are exceptional defensive players. Brent also avoided heads up 1st line match ups while other coaches sought them out.

I never said the bolded. I said mid 1st and good prospect. Look at what we got for Regehr and Phaneuf. When you send out a big ticket player you don't get as much back. We'd be getting a 1st, good prospect and 7 million dollar player(s) back. You could likely guarantee a signed Semin for that 7 million or have a shot at Suter or Parise. Basically the team dealing for Iginla is giving up 7 million in ufa's, the 1st and a good prospect. Would you trade Baertschi, our 1st and Semin for Iginla? Probably not right? You're asking another team to give up more than that. Not likely at all.
He started less than half of his starts in the offensive zone and Glencross started a higher percentage of his starts in the offensive zone than Iginla.
Glencross Off% start 49.9
Iginla Off% start 49.7
Again where is your information coming from its like you make it up.

Iginla was the 4th highest Corsi Rel QoC on the team meaning he averaged better than most averaged out against there opponents. That doesn't sound like a liability to me but I guess if Iginla isn't the best he must be the worst.

Iginla had the 4th highest QoC meaning he played against the other teams higher +- players which usually (not always of course) are the better all around players.

Boston fans have already said they would give a 1st + Caron + Krejci for Iginla that is much better than the "most we could expect" mid first and good prospect.

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Old
05-29-2012, 01:46 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
Johansson just finished his rookie season, he has not established anything. He is essentially a prospect.

Green with his injuries and $5 million qualifying offer could easily be seen as a cap dump. Lupul was seen as a cap dump after a 25 goal season and again after some injury problems
Johansson actually just finished up his sophmore season, as he played 69 games in 10-11".

Nonetheless we obviously have different views on these certain players, which is fine.

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