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05-26-2012, 06:06 PM
  #151
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if i knew how to insert a link i would, but eric stephens had a blog today in the OCR, that say's ducks are still confident he will sign with them....all along the way giving them the impression that he wants to play for the ducks (to marchant and niedermayer)...of course this all could be posturing from the ducks but i dont think so

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05-26-2012, 06:20 PM
  #152
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Regarding the possibility of tampering: perhaps, if it turns out that Schultz was encouraged by Gardiner to sign with Toronto, Anaheim could try to make a case that Gardiner was acting on behalf of the team. Would tampering charges stand up if it could be shown that Burke asked or encouraged Gardiner to get to Schultz?

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05-26-2012, 06:29 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by lindgren View Post
Regarding the possibility of tampering: perhaps, if it turns out that Schultz was encouraged by Gardiner to sign with Toronto, Anaheim could try to make a case that Gardiner was acting on behalf of the team. Would tampering charges stand up if it could be shown that Burke asked or encouraged Gardiner to get to Schultz?
Yes, but it would be very hard to prove Burke asked Gardiner to recruit Schultz.

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05-26-2012, 06:43 PM
  #154
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One wonders what Ron Wilson knows and is up to these days.......

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05-26-2012, 07:05 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
One wonders what Ron Wilson knows and is up to these days.......
Wow didn't realize the Ducks can use him as a witness against the Leafs.... Let's just hope there is no tampering and Schultz says something soon.

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05-26-2012, 07:19 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by furball411 View Post
Wow didn't realize the Ducks can use him as a witness against the Leafs.... Let's just hope there is no tampering and Schultz says something soon.
I hope there is and he still signs with us. Double win.

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05-26-2012, 07:48 PM
  #157
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I hope there is and he still signs with us. Double win.
Haha the Maple Leafs would deserve that... Sometimes their fans just sicken me

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05-26-2012, 07:59 PM
  #158
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Anaheim could have an interesting d core if he sticks with the Ducks. Fowler, vatanen, Schultz... Makes me think Vis will be moved at the deadline if Anaheim isn't projected to make the playoffs.

But since Vatanen is probably another year away... The ducks could have a very offensively minded blue line next season. If Lydman is back... And healthy... Could be a very solid d corps.


If Schultz does sign though... I think Anaheim might trade one of Beauch, Lydman or Vis... Beauch would probably get the biggest return.

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05-26-2012, 08:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by ChairmanCat View Post
Anaheim could have an interesting d core if he sticks with the Ducks. Fowler, vatanen, Schultz... Makes me think Vis will be moved at the deadline if Anaheim isn't projected to make the playoffs.

But since Vatanen is probably another year away... The ducks could have a very offensively minded blue line next season. If Lydman is back... And healthy... Could be a very solid d corps.


If Schultz does sign though... I think Anaheim might trade one of Beauch, Lydman or Vis... Beauch would probably get the biggest return.
Beauch is also the least likely to be moved. He just took a discount to stay here, and it included an L-NTC. It's not like he's a locker room problem like Carter and Richards were in Philly.

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05-26-2012, 08:24 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by furball411 View Post
Haha the Maple Leafs would deserve that... Sometimes their fans just sicken me
That board has been dreaming of stealing Anaheim's talent all season. Getzlaf, Ryan, Perry, Fowler, DSP, Selanne, and now Schultz.

Those fans never seem to be operating in reality.

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05-26-2012, 09:57 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by RomanianLeafs View Post
well we did steal u 2 talents already in lupul and gardiner, so what`s wrong in stealing schultz too and getzlaf next summer? so remember this before u trash our fanbase for never operating in reality bla bla...as for this situation, i really don`t think it`s toronto, Burke and your GM are good friends, doing something like this would mean the end of any future trade between our clubs...
Yeah Lupul and Gardiner. Easily comparable to Getlzaf, Ryan, Perry, and Selanne. I guess talent is a pretty broad term.

Good luck replicating the 07 Ducks team though.

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05-26-2012, 10:16 PM
  #162
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To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.

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05-26-2012, 10:27 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.
Good post. It doesn't seem to me like there'd be that much incentive to tamper with Schultz, especially for Toronto - Schultz knows they've previously attempted to acquire him in the Beauchemin deal and because ELC deals are capped, he pretty much knows exactly what type of offer is coming as soon as they're allowed to make one. There's really no need for anyone in the organization to contact him.

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05-26-2012, 10:35 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.
Agree 100 percent with what you just said... Now I'm watching "Catch Me if You Can" to put myself in a good mood.

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05-26-2012, 10:35 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.
The rights to speak to Hartnell and Timonen were dealt earlier for some scrub, with the agreement that if they signed, Nashville would get their first back, nothing wrong there. Most of those early bird signings also usually come with permission, like when we signed Oates. Tampering happens, but not on this level.

Also, your theory of them using it as a smoke screen and trying to save their ***** has a flaw, they're trying to keep the case secret, as they should. They're telling the media that they're confident, and allegedly building this case behind the scenes. Hardly something done by a GM trying to save his ass.

It also seems very likely Schultz outright lied. They expected him in the lineup right away, you don't do that even with somone who is non committal. Even if he didn't lie, knowing you won't stay and avoiding them isn't much better. Considering he actually dis-enrolled earlier in the week, it seems very likely that he's just trying to avoid everything(Wheeler and Gregoire both announced it, not sure about Kessel).

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05-26-2012, 10:38 PM
  #166
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The whole tampering thing sounds ridiculous. Burke would never tamper especially with his friend Murray. Anyway, I was thinking the Leafs could send the conditional pick in the Beauchemin trade back to Anaheim in exchange for the rights to Justin Schultz. Maybe send another pick back if he signs.

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05-26-2012, 10:51 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.
Since June '08 the Ducks have traded with (all trades NHL, AHL, picks)

Minnesota 6/08
La 6/08, 9/08
Phoenix 6/08, 9/08, 3/10
Philly 6/08
Columbus 9/08, 6/09, 1/11
Atlanta 9/08, 2/09, 9/09, 3/10
Winnipeg (different management) 2/12
Dallas 12/08
Toronto 1/09, 8/09, 1/10, 3/10, 6/10, 2/11, 2/11, 6/11, 6/11, 1/12, 2/12
NJ 2/09, 12/11
Vancouver 2/09, 2/11, 2/12
Pittsburgh 2/09, 5/10
San Jose 3/09
Chicago 3/09, 3/10
Boston 3/09, 3/10, 2/11
Philly 6/09, 11/10
Tampa Bay 8/09, 2/11
Ottawa 9/09, 2/11
Montreal 12/09, 12/10, 2/11
Edmonton 3/10, 7/11, 7/11, 2/12
Carolina 3/10, 11/10
Calgary 3/10, 6/10
NYR 7/10, 7/10, 11/10
NYI 7/10
St Louis 2/11
Colorado 10/11

25 teams. 13 teams 2+ times. And then there's Toronto

I think there's a difference between UFA tampering and poaching a prospect tampering. IF there's a big money team that essentially stole a blue chip prospect I think there are quite a few GM's in the league that would be thrilled to see them get hung out to dry.


Last edited by Ducks DVM: 05-26-2012 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Counted Atlanta/Winnipeg as 2 teams
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Old
05-26-2012, 11:37 PM
  #168
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I think people are grasping at straws with this tampering issue. Let's look at the facts:

1. Schultz could have signed with ANA (which would have been the most lucrative option before the season ended) or pass on signing for more money and gone UFA a couple of months later when he could speak to all teams openly.

2. No team can effectively offer him any more than the Ducks can. So it isn't as if they need to get the word to him that they will double any offer the Ducks make...they can't.

So, what possible incentive is there to tamper with him when you can't offer him a better deal? It makes no sense. If the so called tampering caused him to not sign with ANA then what is he getting that ANA couldn't provide? If we're talking about a so called better playing opportunity that's a pretty weak argument for tampering. Schultz has an advisor/agent who is one of the best in the business. You don't think he looks at those options when considering whether to sign or go UFA? No team has to tamper just to say "Hey, kid, we could really use you here. You'll get a lot of ice time."

This does sound more like a Bob Murray CYA strike than anything else.

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05-26-2012, 11:45 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Gutchecktime View Post
Wilson made a comment on the radio - something like "If we signed the Sedins" - not sure that how that makes Burke the type to tamper really.
It was Wilson indeed, but it is Toronto as an organization who was fined for it, and with Burke still being the boss I am pretty certain he would be dealt with as a repeat offender, and the tamering rumors from when he left Anaheim might not do him any favors either. Like it or not, but this is the 3rd time in less than four years his name has been connected with tampering.
If this would turn out to be true, it would be incredibly stupid for him to risk it though, and if Russo says they have been building the case for months and already has some evidence this could get big. Lamoriello build his case for Stevens on nothing more than a gut feeling and got a first rounder and a swap that in the end resulted in Parise. If Toronto should be busted again just three years after being let go with a fine and a warning, the punishment could be massive. But to be fair, we don't know what team is being targeted here, Toronto is nothing more than an educated guess.

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05-27-2012, 01:05 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
To me, this tampering thing is just Anaheim management throwing up a smoke screen to save their jobs.

I'm sure tampering happens all the time. How else would trades like Hartnell happen? Or all the UFAs signing within minutes. You know there was discussion before hand to get the groundwork started.

But there's never charges because a) normally they don't care and b) it's probably near-impossible to prove.

I find it unlikely Schultz lied. He probably was non-committal or just didn't say anything when Murray didn't ask. Most likely it's Murray's fault in not properly assessing the chances Schultz could bolt. And this tampering is just to deflect blame.


If Murray actually does bring forth a tampering claim, and he actually pursues it. Well that's just making enemies around the league. He has few enough trade partners as is. Right now they always trade with the same 3-4 teams.
i take it you didnt see Schultz public comments where he said he wanted to play here?

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05-27-2012, 02:11 AM
  #171
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It was Wilson indeed, but it is Toronto as an organization who was fined for it, and with Burke still being the boss I am pretty certain he would be dealt with as a repeat offender, and the tamering rumors from when he left Anaheim might not do him any favors either. Like it or not, but this is the 3rd time in less than four years his name has been connected with tampering.
If this would turn out to be true, it would be incredibly stupid for him to risk it though, and if Russo says they have been building the case for months and already has some evidence this could get big. Lamoriello build his case for Stevens on nothing more than a gut feeling and got a first rounder and a swap that in the end resulted in Parise. If Toronto should be busted again just three years after being let go with a fine and a warning, the punishment could be massive. But to be fair, we don't know what team is being targeted here, Toronto is nothing more than an educated guess.
I actually don't remember Toronto being fined for the Sedins mishap. I know they were fined a 4th round pick for some obscure technicality when signing Jonas Frogren, but I'm not sure if the league ever took official action after the Sedins comment.

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05-27-2012, 02:12 AM
  #172
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Toronto fans need to go back to their cave and stop trying to always vulture on our players...focus on your team...

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05-27-2012, 02:24 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by RomanianLeafs View Post
well we did steal u 2 talents already in lupul and gardiner, so what`s wrong in stealing schultz too and getzlaf next summer? so remember this before u trash our fanbase for never operating in reality bla bla...as for this situation, i really don`t think it`s toronto, Burke and your GM are good friends, doing something like this would mean the end of any future trade between our clubs...
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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05-27-2012, 03:17 AM
  #174
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I actually don't remember Toronto being fined for the Sedins mishap. I know they were fined a 4th round pick for some obscure technicality when signing Jonas Frogren, but I'm not sure if the league ever took official action after the Sedins comment.
They were fined some money, no picks. It was just an off the cuff comment by a coach, so its not like Burke is famous for it. Burke tried to nab KLowe for tampering too when he made a similar comment about Perry, but it didn't pan out.

Also, remember, Toronto is just Russo's personal guess. If tampering isn't involved, IMO it isn't Burke, for obvious reasons. My best guess would be Lowe/Tambellini or Gillis, the latter being a former agent and someone likely to point out this loophole to someone like Schultz and his camp.

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05-27-2012, 03:21 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I think people are grasping at straws with this tampering issue. Let's look at the facts:

1. Schultz could have signed with ANA (which would have been the most lucrative option before the season ended) or pass on signing for more money and gone UFA a couple of months later when he could speak to all teams openly.

2. No team can effectively offer him any more than the Ducks can. So it isn't as if they need to get the word to him that they will double any offer the Ducks make...they can't.

So, what possible incentive is there to tamper with him when you can't offer him a better deal? It makes no sense. If the so called tampering caused him to not sign with ANA then what is he getting that ANA couldn't provide? If we're talking about a so called better playing opportunity that's a pretty weak argument for tampering. Schultz has an advisor/agent who is one of the best in the business. You don't think he looks at those options when considering whether to sign or go UFA? No team has to tamper just to say "Hey, kid, we could really use you here. You'll get a lot of ice time."

This does sound more like a Bob Murray CYA strike than anything else.
Don't kid yourself, there's a huge advantage to tampering, as it likely involved pointing out this loophole and convincing Schultz and his camp to use it. A potential guilty culprit would likely be a team where he might rather play than Anaheim, like Edmonton or Vancouver. Convince him that he'll get the same money and play in a more disirable location, not bad.

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