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Compare and Contrast: Doug Wilson Vs David Poile

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Old
07-19-2012, 07:44 PM
  #1
WantonAbandon
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Compare and Contrast: Doug Wilson Vs David Poile

I think the collective wisdom on this Board probably is Poile is >>>>> than Wilson. However I thought of a different perspective...

Wilson has been able to convince his core to stay with the organization while signing reasonable contracts that fit his desired salary structure. Poile has failed to do this. If you look at all the players who have left the preds over the years and think about what team they could have been if they had kept all those players, you could argue that Poile failed miserably.

With this in mind is Poile really a better GM than Wilson?

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07-19-2012, 07:51 PM
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CommanderShepard15
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Wilson is better. he has the blockbuster instinct that many (save Holmgrem) lack. Name a GM that has gotten superstars for less (Thornton + Boyle) or more for bums (Toskala).

He also ensures that his RFA's are locked up and is a strong believer in cheap 2nd contracts.

Pollie is much better at drafting though, although that could be more scouts and less him.

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07-19-2012, 09:42 PM
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don't think you can say dw is better just because the owner situtations are totally different. sj owners tend to spend pretty well and give dw free reign. preds have a terrible ownership situation, are cheap, lose money, and polie has his hands completely tied. also nashville is one of the least desirable destinations in the league unless you are married to a country superstar. given all these constraints, it's amazing what polie has been able to achieve.

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07-19-2012, 09:43 PM
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Tough to say one is better than the other. Poile has done a fantastic job building a contending team based on Nashville's financial guidelines and not spending anywhere near the salary cap. With some luck, they could have taken the Western Conference last year. That was a good team!

DW is good at building and maintaining a competitive team year in and year out. Where he is shining over Poile right now is in getting his pending RFAs resigned before they can be poached. Poile got NOTHING for Suter and stands to only get low 1st round picks for Weber, one of the best D men in the game. If they lose Weber, they will be in rebuild mode on the ice and inthe stands in Nashville.

DW has never lost an RFA he really wanted to keep. He is proactive in getting guys signed AND getting them to take reasonable deals to make sure the team remains competitive. He;s really good at that.

They both have strenghs and weaknesses. Right now Poile's weaknesses are being highlighted, but he has done great job with what he has had to work with up until this offseason.

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07-19-2012, 09:51 PM
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WantonAbandon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
don't think you can say dw is better just because the owner situtations are totally different. sj owners tend to spend pretty well and give dw free reign. preds have a terrible ownership situation, are cheap, lose money, and polie has his hands completely tied. also nashville is one of the least desirable destinations in the league unless you are married to a country superstar. given all these constraints, it's amazing what polie has been able to achieve.
San Jose didn't always spend to the Cap. Wilson gradually got there. Poile would have too if he was able to keep both Suter and Weber and the value of the franchise would have appreciated. He tried to resign them. The difference is Wilson was able to convince his core to stay.

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07-19-2012, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
San Jose didn't always spend to the Cap. Wilson gradually got there. Poile would have too if he was able to keep both Suter and Weber and the value of the franchise would have appreciated. He tried to resign them. The difference is Wilson was able to convince his core to stay.
don't think it was all wilson that convinced them to stay (while polie didnt) and more that the bay area is a fantastic place to live (as witnessed by the housing prices) while nashville is uh not. fact is, i cannot think of a city less desirable to go to in the nhl for a hockey player than nashville (maybe columbus), and this shows in how quickly nash players (so many of them you start to lose track) try and get out.

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07-19-2012, 10:40 PM
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DW is like the Setoguchi of GMs

depending on the day, he can either be a franchise hero or do something so dumb you wonder if he's doing any thinking at all in that brain of his

also, you can't deny he's got some serious swag, and you just can't coach that... so when you have that in your franchise, you have to hold onto it, cherish it, nurture its free-spirited #YOLO tweeting ways and hope it results in a magical Stanley Cup run one of these years

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07-19-2012, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
don't think it was all wilson that convinced them to stay (while polie didnt) and more that the bay area is a fantastic place to live (as witnessed by the housing prices) while nashville is uh not. fact is, i cannot think of a city less desirable to go to in the nhl for a hockey player than nashville (maybe columbus), and this shows in how quickly nash players (so many of them you start to lose track) try and get out.
I don't know. Have you ever been to Nashville? It is a rocking town. But yeah a discusion could be had. Was Polie to blame why did he fail where Wilson succeeded.

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07-20-2012, 01:15 AM
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IMO, it seems there is a difference between Nashville and some franchises. I look at Nashville as akin to Buffalo. No player is bigger than the team. Players move on and the team keeps on truckin. It's a little bumpier. SJ and Boston are the opposite end of the scale. It is almost like JT and Chara are bigger than the team; they need THE star. Both ways can have success.

Evidence for the Nashville side is the way they have dealt with player foibles. Star-based teams are not quite so dramatic at least with STAR players.

As for Poile's performance, his record in earlier years must be tempered with the budget restrictions that he had for over a decade. Achieving success in that environment is harder and he did do it. His playoff track record is better than any other team that entered the league at the same time by a mile. He bounced back rapidly when Leipold pulled the plug on any excess budget when he sold the team. Poile has corrected drafting issues, becoming more adept at getting skill forwards which was a major hole in Music City's game. His dman drafting record is stellar, top of the league. His goalie development is bumpy but still above SJ's. DW is not even close on drafting/development.

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07-20-2012, 03:17 AM
  #10
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If you take away his blatant overpayment to role players, which probably comes from being in San Jose which isn't and never has been a hockey market for free agents, Doug Wilson is probably the best General Manager in the league. If he was GM of Montreal, or a very attractive team, he would easily be regarded as the best general manager in the league. Let's look at him getting star players...

Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, 1st Round Pick, 4th Round Pick, Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, 2nd Round Pick, Devin Setoguchi, 1st Round Pick, Charlie Coyle

Joe Thornton, Dan Boyle, Dany Heatley, Brent Burns

He has been able to get some really good players for spare parts, and mid-level talent.

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07-20-2012, 03:27 AM
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^agree

he just needs to hire an assistant that specializes in recognizing bottom-6 forwards and bottom-pair defensemen

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07-20-2012, 03:54 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks for Cup View Post
If you take away his blatant overpayment to role players, which probably comes from being in San Jose which isn't and never has been a hockey market for free agents, Doug Wilson is probably the best General Manager in the league. If he was GM of Montreal, or a very attractive team, he would easily be regarded as the best general manager in the league. Let's look at him getting star players...

Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, 1st Round Pick, 4th Round Pick, Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo, 2nd Round Pick, Devin Setoguchi, 1st Round Pick, Charlie Coyle

Joe Thornton, Dan Boyle, Dany Heatley, Brent Burns

He has been able to get some really good players for spare parts, and mid-level talent.
Lots of GMs get stars. Few win cups. The GM has to get enough parts right in making a winning team. Getting stars is part but not all of it. If I gave an award for signing stars, it goes to Holmgren hands down with Sather solidly in second place. If I gave an award for outstanding GM over time, it is Holland. The reality is that DW has some rather large holes in his game that haven't been filled. It doesn't make him awful, it justs stops him from filling the top spot.

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07-20-2012, 06:29 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endy View Post
don't think it was all wilson that convinced them to stay (while polie didnt) and more that the bay area is a fantastic place to live (as witnessed by the housing prices) while nashville is uh not. fact is, i cannot think of a city less desirable to go to in the nhl for a hockey player than nashville (maybe columbus), and this shows in how quickly nash players (so many of them you start to lose track) try and get out.
I live just outside of Nashville and it really is a great place to live and raise a family.
If I was making pro athlete money it would be a tough choice between Nashville and San Jose. I think the lack of a state income tax would probably sway me to Nashville.

As for the Predators ownership, it is much better. They are spending a lot more and the new ownership group has been very good at marketing and getting people to see what hockey is all about. I have heard members from the ownership group on the radio expressing their willingness to spend to the cap to win a cup and keep the core together.

Doug Wilson has to be considered the better over all GM in comparison to Poile right now. Doug is keeping his core and has convinced players that San Jose is a great place to play if you want to win. Poile is great at drafting and specifically drafting defense but I cant think of a time where he kept a great player on that team heading to free agency or a time where he made a highly favorable trade.

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07-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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Poile's failures here are his inability to even get serious with his RFA's, which may go back to that "no-star" discussion earlier. Anyone else remember that they went into arbitration with Weber last year with their offer being $4.8 million?

I think half the reason Weber signed an offer sheet was because Nashville was still lowballing him by *millions* per season. Maybe Brent Burns money over a longer term.

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07-20-2012, 08:00 AM
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I think the fact that San Jose have been relevant as a top team for so long is in large part down to Doug Wilson.

Love him or loathe him, that's a good accomplishment that he deserves a significant amount of the credit for.

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07-20-2012, 09:05 AM
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DW!

Poile was great at staying consistent with a low payroll but to me the only reason it seems close is barry trotz. That guy is amazing. Shea Weber doesn't hurt (sure we would have liked to have drafted him above carle, bernier or even michalek), but look at what is happening now. Poile can't retain his players.

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07-20-2012, 09:37 AM
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Blades of Glory
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Wilson takes a remarkable amount of completely undeserved criticism (and a fair amount of deserved criticism). Detroit and San Jose have been the two best organizations in hockey since the lockout. They have contended for the Stanley Cup every single year, and they have done it without the benefit of high draft picks that come as a quick-fix reward to teams that suck. Since the lockout, Ken Holland and Doug Wilson have been the two best GM's in hockey. Look at the roster turnover on the Sharks since the 2005-06 season; the amount of talent that Wilson has brought in dwarfs what he has given up. In terms of career accomplishments, you have to put Lou Lamoriello up there at the top with Holland, but beyond those two, Wilson is very much in the conversation as one of the best GM's in hockey. What the Sharks have done since 2004 is really quite incredible. It won't be fully appreciated until they win a Stanley Cup, but it still should be recognized by our own fans. Wilson has made his fair share of mistakes, but those pale in comparison to his strong moves. Starting with the acquisition of Joe Thornton, he has cultivated a culture in San Jose based around winning and the top-flight talent that would have laughed the Sharks off 10 years ago now wants to play here.

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07-20-2012, 10:24 AM
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DW has a much better tan

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Old
07-20-2012, 10:57 AM
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I really don't' think you can compair them as they have different ownersip groups, fan/income base and different budgets. The latter would effect how you approach and build a team, etc.

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07-20-2012, 11:07 AM
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DW is awesome. He has made this a profitable business in which that allows us to spend close to the cap each year, when in real terms, we shouldn't. Even though we haven't won a cup, if we didn't make the finals so many years in a row (And rebuilt like some people keep saying) our ownership group may put on an internal cap.

We don't have the big market budgets, yet due to smart management, we've been able to spend up to the cap.

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07-20-2012, 11:23 AM
  #21
VP and GM
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Dw has a knack of pulling big deals out of his hat. He's not so good at smaller deals, i really don't think he spends allot of time on them, until recently that is. I am still shocked at what little we got for Ehrhoff.

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07-22-2012, 02:20 AM
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Two different situations.

One is great at developing talent in-house that can fit perfectly in its meat-and-potatoes system. They never sacrifice the system depth because they know they have a very low chance of retaining high demand players. Nashville is great at drafting, developing, and coaching. It has probably the best GM/Coach partnership in the league.

On the other hand, Wilson has helped develop an organization that Star players want to come to (maybe not via FA, but definitely via trade... Boyle & Heater waived NTC's to come here). And more importantly, want to stay at a discount. Wilson has somehow been able to re-sign star players below or at market value in terms of $/yr, but with half the term they would get on the open market.

Overall, both are great GM's at succeeding in small markets. One has done it on a tight budget with high turnover. The other has retained stars he's traded for with hometown discount contracts.

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07-22-2012, 11:48 AM
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Despite having the easier job, Wilson has managed to accomplish the same as Poile, nothing.

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Old
07-22-2012, 11:51 AM
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If Wilson has picked Suter and Weber (which he could have), this thread doesn't exist.

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07-22-2012, 12:12 PM
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SJeasy
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Small thought. Would opinions change if Poile matches the offer to Weber? (Just a note, most offersheets have been matched in recent years, including ridiculous offers like Vanek's.)

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