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What kind of sweetened offer for Nash we talking about DW?

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05-27-2012, 05:07 PM
  #101
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Nash scoring forty would likely net ten more goals if the deal went down.
Heatley had a net improvement of 8 in goal diff. Scoring did go up but so did goals against. Better than most trades of the type.

I am sure you know the reason why I harp on team play is that it is the ultimate measuring stick. When you add a guy you have to look at net effect. Adding Burns didn't add goals to the blueline. It isn't arithmetic. Burns had Boyle eating into the PP time that he would have had if still playing in Minny ergo less goals. Essentially what the Sharks got was a marginal improvement on Demers slot. When prognosticating, you have to subtract the guy who is being slipped down the lineup as well as the straight up swap. That means if you replace Clowe with Nash, you take their goal diff. Then slip either Marleau or Pavs down by one line and account for an expected drop in their production. Then account for an increase or decrease in defensive shortcomings. THEN tally the net effect.

My take on Nash is that he is better than average on speed and he can dangle. Good shot as well although I am not so sure on one timers. I can see TM hurting him if TM insists on chip rather than carrying the line, particularly if RN's turnovers mount up. If TM lets him play, I think the potential surprise is JT losing a bit of offense as RN will gain the zone and won't even utilize JT's skills. Whoever outlets will be getting the assist. If TM doesn't up the fast break game with Nash, then I suspect that the Sharks will really regret the trade.

I am not impressed with Nash as a player after watching many of his games, listening to the fluff pieces and listening to Nash. The cartoon caricature that he reminds me of is Baby Huey.


Last edited by SJeasy: 05-27-2012 at 10:08 PM.
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05-27-2012, 05:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Not really... There is plenty of space to make that trade. The Sharks could probably resign Winnik to boot and have a cushion if they bought out Handguns
Yeah it'll be great to tell guys like Couture and stuff "hey man take small discounts to help the team out because Nash's salary keeps going higher and higher into the stratosphere."

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05-27-2012, 05:31 PM
  #103
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You can't compare what Heatley did here with what Nash might do if he were here.

Having said that, I'd rather add a 7.8 mil/yr contract to our team for a defenseman than to for another forward.


Last edited by Winky: 05-27-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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05-27-2012, 05:33 PM
  #104
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Yeah it'll be great to tell guys like Couture and stuff "hey man take small discounts to help the team out because Nash's salary keeps going higher and higher into the stratosphere."
I don't think Couture cares too much. He'll get his pay day after this contract when the big guns all have deals up.

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05-27-2012, 07:22 PM
  #105
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What we need is a fast skating, puck handling, shoot first 30g type player on Thornton's wing. Which is why I kept advocating to have Havlat play there, because he fits that description pretty close. Another Havlat type player (who leans a bit more towards goal scoring) would be ideal. For instance, I'd rather have a Patrick Kane than a Rick Nash (not that I am saying we should trade for Kane, I suspect he'd be a locker room problem). If we are trading though I'd much rather spend assets on Kane, Sharp, Duchene, JVR. If we were going to lure a FA, Parise or Semin would be better fits than Nash.
Kane wouldn't be a good fit on Thornton's wing anyway. He's primarily a playmaker and definitely not a "shoot first 30g type of player on Thornton's wing". I'd love to have Sharp though. However, at that point, I'd lean towards putting Sharp on a line with Marleau and Havlat.

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05-27-2012, 08:01 PM
  #106
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Kane wouldn't be a good fit on Thornton's wing anyway. He's primarily a playmaker and definitely not a "shoot first 30g type of player on Thornton's wing". I'd love to have Sharp though. However, at that point, I'd lean towards putting Sharp on a line with Marleau and Havlat.
If we somehow magically got Kane without giving up Couture, I'd run Marleau-Couture-Kane.

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05-27-2012, 08:24 PM
  #107
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I don't think Couture cares too much. He'll get his pay day after this contract when the big guns all have deals up.
Well you know what I mean.

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05-27-2012, 08:33 PM
  #108
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If we somehow magically got Kane without giving up Couture, I'd run Marleau-Couture-Kane.
Being a season ticket holder in Winnipeg, the Jets wouldn't give up Kane unless if it was for a big bodied Centre.

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05-27-2012, 08:49 PM
  #109
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Being a season ticket holder in Winnipeg, the Jets wouldn't give up Kane unless if it was for a big bodied Centre.
I think they mean Patrick Kane.

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05-27-2012, 10:31 PM
  #110
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Being a season ticket holder in Winnipeg, the Jets wouldn't give up Kane unless if it was for a big bodied Centre.
Patrick. Not Evander.

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05-27-2012, 10:39 PM
  #111
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I would like Evander more though.

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05-27-2012, 10:45 PM
  #112
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Being a season ticket holder in Winnipeg, the Jets wouldn't give up Kane unless if it was for a big bodied Centre.
Patrick Kane. But I prefer Evander.

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05-27-2012, 10:47 PM
  #113
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Patrick Kane. But I prefer Evander.
Me too.

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05-28-2012, 03:58 AM
  #114
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Another note, why are people demanding JT be speedy?

The guy is incredibly productive, speed aside. That is why we want speed, as a means to an end. If JT can produce without it, who cares if he has it or not? That is why I don't get this whole spiel of "JT makes the team slow". JT makes his line "slow", but he can produce nontheless.

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05-28-2012, 04:30 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Another note, why are people demanding JT be speedy?

The guy is incredibly productive, speed aside. That is why we want speed, as a means to an end. If JT can produce without it, who cares if he has it or not? That is why I don't get this whole spiel of "JT makes the team slow". JT makes his line "slow", but he can produce nontheless.
I think the argument was that the coaches made a strategy that fit his style and forced it onto the rest of the team but I don't really think that anyways.

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05-28-2012, 05:43 AM
  #116
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And if you have to give up Pavelski, you're giving up goals on the other end.



He's slightly above average to me and not at or near Marleau's speed. Considering how Nash has played, I doubt the transition would get any better, especially with Thornton also on that potential line.
Right and if Nash scores forty it would be a gain...

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05-28-2012, 05:47 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Yeah it'll be great to tell guys like Couture and stuff "hey man take small discounts to help the team out because Nash's salary keeps going higher and higher into the stratosphere."
So Replace Nash with Pavelski and in the long run you might save 1.5 million. Couture is still an RFA.

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05-28-2012, 05:50 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
So Replace Nash with Pavelski and in the long run you might save 1.5 million. Couture is still an RFA.
I don't see Pavelski ever making 6.3 million unless the salary cap sky-rockets by then.

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05-28-2012, 05:52 AM
  #119
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I don't see Pavelski ever making 6.3 million unless the salary cap sky-rockets by then.
Pavelski is tops a $5.5M player, and I doubt he goes over $5M. Look at Kesler, Plekanec, Roy, Grabovski as comparables.

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05-28-2012, 05:53 AM
  #120
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Pavelski is tops a $5.5M player, and I doubt he goes over $5M. Look at Kesler, Plekanec, Roy, Grabovski as comparables.
I agree. I was initially thinking of a Sharp comparable contract, but even that seems too much.

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05-28-2012, 10:15 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Another note, why are people demanding JT be speedy?

The guy is incredibly productive, speed aside. That is why we want speed, as a means to an end. If JT can produce without it, who cares if he has it or not? That is why I don't get this whole spiel of "JT makes the team slow". JT makes his line "slow", but he can produce nontheless.
Production only matters if it leads to wins. They've slowed the pace down to such a point that they don't even have a transition offense. That is a losing formula and he is one of the biggest reasons why.

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Right and if Nash scores forty it would be a gain...
Trading for Nash is likely going to be a wash at best. One, if he gets 40, it's likely at the expense of the opposite winger. Two, if he does, it likely will end up in giving a few more goals up at the other end. However, expecting 40 goals out of him when he would have a humongous adjustment to deal with is a bit lofty. I just don't think he'd hit that mark with how he'd be used here.

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05-28-2012, 12:11 PM
  #122
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Nash, the goal Vampire. Interesting concept.

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05-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #123
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Not that interested in Nash, but if you can unload Marleau straight up for him then do it.

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05-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #124
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My girlfriend and I were driving home from the farmers market yesterday and she randomly asked me if I wanted Nash on the Sharks. I responded with a chant...

"DONT BE RASH. NO TO NASH. DONT BE RASH. NO TO NASH."

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05-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #125
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Another note, why are people demanding JT be speedy?

The guy is incredibly productive, speed aside. That is why we want speed, as a means to an end. If JT can produce without it, who cares if he has it or not? That is why I don't get this whole spiel of "JT makes the team slow". JT makes his line "slow", but he can produce nontheless.
It's not an issue of straight up foot speed, it is more speed of play. He has played faster in the past. The issue is that slowing the play leads to inconsistency in team wins and team matchup issues. Too many teams can consistently stifle a slow playing opponent.

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