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What kind of sweetened offer for Nash we talking about DW?

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05-28-2012, 02:07 PM
  #126
TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by Iron Chef View Post
My girlfriend and I were driving home from the farmers market yesterday and she randomly asked me if I wanted Nash on the Sharks. I responded with a chant...

"DONT BE RASH. NO TO NASH. DONT BE RASH. NO TO NASH."
That's amazing. Sharks slogan Offseason 2012? Maybe it's the next Armchair thread's witty title...

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05-28-2012, 02:17 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
Not that interested in Nash, but if you can unload Marleau straight up for him then do it.
I'd rather keep Marleau. Nash at best will probably only put up about 5-7 more goals per year than Marleau. He's not as good defensively as Marleau. And from the games I've seen, he has even bigger consistency issues than Marleau. For roughly $1 mil less a season for the next 2 years, and an even bigger discount after that, trading Marleau for Nash just doesn't make sense.

And in the end, you can be almost 100% sure that Marleau will be more inclined to a HTD in order to remain a Shark. Beyond all of those, I want Marleau to stay a Shark his whole career.

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05-28-2012, 02:52 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I'd rather keep Marleau. Nash at best will probably only put up about 5-7 more goals per year than Marleau. He's not as good defensively as Marleau. And from the games I've seen, he has even bigger consistency issues than Marleau. For roughly $1 mil less a season for the next 2 years, and an even bigger discount after that, trading Marleau for Nash just doesn't make sense.

And in the end, you can be almost 100% sure that Marleau will be more inclined to a HTD in order to remain a Shark. Beyond all of those, I want Marleau to stay a Shark his whole career.
I agree with this. However, I can't help wondering if the general culture change would have some unforeseen benefits.

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05-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
And in the end, you can be almost 100% sure that Marleau will be more inclined to a HTD in order to remain a Shark. Beyond all of those, I want Marleau to stay a Shark his whole career.
Well no matter what it's not like he's gonna get a raise. So Nash will always be more expensive lol. Same goes for Thornton. Couture, Pavelski, etc will get raises but even if they get way overpaid they wont get way overpaid like Nash is.

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05-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
It's not an issue of straight up foot speed, it is more speed of play. He has played faster in the past. The issue is that slowing the play leads to inconsistency in team wins and team matchup issues. Too many teams can consistently stifle a slow playing opponent.
True, but not too many teams can consistently stifle Joe Thornton. That's my point. Unless you believe that Thornton's style of play is influencing the rest of the team (and they obviously cannot produce playing that style); then it becomes a coaching issue as it is their job to segregate styles of play.

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05-28-2012, 04:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
True, but not too many teams can consistently stifle Joe Thornton. That's my point. Unless you believe that Thornton's style of play is influencing the rest of the team (and they obviously cannot produce playing that style); then it becomes a coaching issue as it is their job to segregate styles of play.
They don't HAVE to stifle Joe Thornton. That's the point. They can stifle his linemates and that will have the same effect especially because they don't have to really worry about Joe taking the team on his back and scoring the goals to win it for the team.

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05-28-2012, 06:05 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
True, but not too many teams can consistently stifle Joe Thornton. That's my point. Unless you believe that Thornton's style of play is influencing the rest of the team (and they obviously cannot produce playing that style); then it becomes a coaching issue as it is their job to segregate styles of play.
Not entirely true. In the past the variance in production vs specific opponents was fairly dramatic. He has turned it around versus a couple of them (kudos to JT). It is into the point of fine dividing lines between elite players, but it is pretty obvious that he gets hit by specific defensive players in the extreme. There are a few elites who will not be stifled for long by specific opponents. It is more a playoff issue than a reg. season issue because invariably the Sharks will get one of those opponents somewhere along the line because his matchup issues tend to be with elite teams.

In terms of influencing the team, it does in the sense that he is used for all the prime opportunities. I cannot recall the last time that his minutes were reduced when having a bad game. Other elites get reduced a little more frequently. There are times where the Sharks might benefit if he handed over the reins to others who might have more success against specific opponents.

Just for others. Marleau has specific matchup issues as well, some pretty extreme (eg Det.).

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05-28-2012, 06:08 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan View Post
I agree with this. However, I can't help wondering if the general culture change would have some unforeseen benefits.
I feel the same way.

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05-28-2012, 10:20 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
They don't HAVE to stifle Joe Thornton. That's the point. They can stifle his linemates and that will have the same effect especially because they don't have to really worry about Joe taking the team on his back and scoring the goals to win it for the team.
Perhaps prior to the T-Mac years, but recently we have seen a different JT...

You don't HAVE to have speed to win. I think that Thornton has proved that many times over, as have many players on the DRW.

The thing is, the ingredients are there to make a devishly fast second line (Marleau and Havlat are two of the fastest in the league and in a very small class of super speed + skill players). There are also enough ingredients to have a speed or possession-based style of play on the third line as well.

Another crack at the lineup:

Galliardi-Thornton-Couture
Havlat-Marleau-Wingels
Clowe-Pavelski-Winnik
Fourth line

Vlasic-Burns
Braun-Boyle
Stuart-Demers
Lepisto

Try signing Sykora.
Try signing Jones.
Take a stab of O'Sullivan and see if he fits.
Brunnstrum or Zigomanis could be buy-low signings.

If you can acquire Jones, you can keep Clowe and have tremendous depth. If you sign Sykora instead, you can trade Clowe for speed on the second line.
If O'Sullivan, Brunnstrum or Zigomanis fits, more players become expendable.

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05-28-2012, 10:40 PM
  #135
WTFetus
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He has played faster in the past.
Which is why I'm against the whole "trade Thornton" thing. He is very capable of playing fast; it isn't his fault that the coaches probably didn't prefer it. I was looking at Marleau's transition goals from the 2 seasons previous to this one. The majority of them came from a very quick breakout by Thornton, and Marleau would subsequently use his speed to split the D. That didn't happen this year because Thornton didn't do those passes, and Marleau didn't use his speed as much as he could have.

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05-29-2012, 12:49 AM
  #136
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Which is why I'm against the whole "trade Thornton" thing. He is very capable of playing fast; it isn't his fault that the coaches probably didn't prefer it. I was looking at Marleau's transition goals from the 2 seasons previous to this one. The majority of them came from a very quick breakout by Thornton, and Marleau would subsequently use his speed to split the D. That didn't happen this year because Thornton didn't do those passes, and Marleau didn't use his speed as much as he could have.
That and those flip passes to either Michalek or Marleau. It's possession which supposedly plays to JT's strength and away from his weakness (turnovers). A lot of coaches come into a new job and open up the offense. As their tenure extends, they become more conservative (possession oriented). My biggest issue with JT is that the temptation is there to go conservative and have some success doing so which is misleading. If the coach wants to enhance his chances to win, he has to let the dogs out at some point.

I watched a lot of Rags/Devs. The conservative/liberal divide was there. Torts is aggressive on defense going for the block/turnover/breakaway. Beyond that, his system was too conservative with very careful passing on the breakout. The Devs were spreading their breakouts and making them fast. Not always successfully, but they were pushing the pace as best they could. In the final game, Torts went to stretch which is a last resort to solve breakout issues. Stretch should be a weapon among weapons, not a first or last resort. And not the stretch/tip-in, I mean the stretch/recieve and go.

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05-29-2012, 09:57 PM
  #137
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...y-begin-again/

Huh, judging by this article it seems like the Sharks are actually interested. Didn't know the Rangers and Bruins were though.

Also I wonder if we could make space to sign Parise this off season. What would everyone think of him as a Shark?

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05-30-2012, 02:05 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
Also I wonder if we could make space to sign Parise this off season. What would everyone think of him as a Shark?
I love Parise and think he would bring a lot to the team. That being said, no way we get him. Toronto and Detroit are much more likely candidates due to their cap space.

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05-30-2012, 03:22 PM
  #139
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If DW is even thinking about Nash and his $7.8M hit, I'd prefer that he threw exactly that kind of money at Parise instead and hoped for the best. He's a better player and wouldn't cost us any assets. If we need to open up some cap space, Clowe and Murray are gone for whatever. It'll still be a net gain.

That said, I doubt Parise would sign here anyways...so embrace the inevitable. Braun, you're going to need a new number.

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05-30-2012, 06:46 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by RammsteinGT View Post
If DW is even thinking about Nash and his $7.8M hit, I'd prefer that he threw exactly that kind of money at Parise instead and hoped for the best. He's a better player and wouldn't cost us any assets. If we need to open up some cap space, Clowe and Murray are gone for whatever. It'll still be a net gain.

That said, I doubt Parise would sign here anyways...so embrace the inevitable. Braun, you're going to need a new number.
Agreed. From everything I've heard Parise is a workaholic in practice and off the ice. Exactly the kind of work ethic I'd like to see here.

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05-30-2012, 06:48 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by RammsteinGT View Post
If DW is even thinking about Nash and his $7.8M hit, I'd prefer that he threw exactly that kind of money at Parise instead and hoped for the best. He's a better player and wouldn't cost us any assets. If we need to open up some cap space, Clowe and Murray are gone for whatever. It'll still be a net gain.

That said, I doubt Parise would sign here anyways...so embrace the inevitable. Braun, you're going to need a new number.
This does indeed sound like a good idea. Go all out and spend 7.8 on Parise and then we don't have to make any foolish trades.

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05-30-2012, 07:00 PM
  #142
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Forget Parise, he's not signing here.

Detroit can sign both Parise and Suter to $8M contracts under the current cap and still have $6M in space. Parise gets to play with Datsyuk and Suter gets to be the #1 all-situations guy.

(Hilariously, even with those two, the Wings roster doesn't look that great.)

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05-30-2012, 07:28 PM
  #143
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Out of the big three free agents, Suter, Parise, and Semin, it's pretty much guaranteed at least one of them will sign with Detroit

I've ruled out pretty much all chance of getting Parise, we may have a chance at getting Suter because of his family connection to SJ, who knows with Semin.

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05-30-2012, 08:55 PM
  #144
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Out of the big three free agents, Suter, Parise, and Semin, it's pretty much guaranteed at least one of them will sign with Detroit

I've ruled out pretty much all chance of getting Parise, we may have a chance at getting Suter because of his family connection to SJ, who knows with Semin.
I know! The answer is NO. DW hates Russians...

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05-30-2012, 09:19 PM
  #145
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A little off-topic, but why does DW hate Russians so much? Is it just Korky and Zyuzin, or am I forgetting someone?

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05-30-2012, 09:28 PM
  #146
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Semin will be a Red Wing, or he stays with Ovy.

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05-30-2012, 09:29 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
A little off-topic, but why does DW hate Russians so much? Is it just Korky and Zyuzin, or am I forgetting someone?
I don't know, but it seems moronic to discriminate against a giant part of the world that has had many, many successful players in the past.

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05-30-2012, 09:42 PM
  #148
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Can we get a list of "legit" Russian players that DW passed on? Not talking Zherdev or guys like that.

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05-30-2012, 09:56 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
A little off-topic, but why does DW hate Russians so much? Is it just Korky and Zyuzin, or am I forgetting someone?
He hates Pirozhki so much he vowed that he'd never allow anyone who enjoyed Pirozhki to play for his team. And since it'd be weird to ask during a player interview or a scout "hey man does this guy like Pirozhki?" he just refuses to draft/sign russians.

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05-31-2012, 02:05 AM
  #150
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who cares how much he "sweetens" the deal, just get it done already, and hopefully get rid of that hasbeen Marleau in the process

theres no chance in hell that they'll sign Parise or Suter, Semin is a possibility but there will be some other team not called the Sharks that can and will overpay for him

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