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Justin Schultz signs with Oilers

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06-02-2012, 09:29 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
I like how you conveniently don't respond to my posts when I post something you have nothing to response to. Since you think Schultz could jump right into a top 4 role on the Wings and succeed. Give me an example of a player who has gone right from college to a top 4 role in the NHL and succeeded? and whose team succeeded? Jack Johnson and the Kings? no. Erik Johnson and the Blues? no. Ryan Suter took a year to develop in the AHL. Brendan Smith took a year to develop in the AHL. Mcdonagh started the beginning of the year in the AHL then played bottom minutes and no special teams on the Rangers. You are proposing an idea that has never really worked out that well.
Matt Carle
2005-06 Hobey Baker award winner
2006-07 NHL All-Rookie team

Good enough?

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06-02-2012, 09:35 PM
  #152
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Jake Gardiner
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Still with us go wings? Have I replied to you?

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06-02-2012, 09:37 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Matt Carle
2005-06 Hobey Baker award winner
2006-07 NHL All-Rookie team

Good enough?
Not bad.

However...

Ice time/game for 06-07 SJD defenseman:
1. Scott Hannan
2. Marc Eduard Vlasic
3. Craig Rivet
4. Kyle Mclaren
5. Christian Ehrhoff
6. Matt Carle

So not exactly someone playing top 4 minutes right out of college, so doesn't really fit the criteria.

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06-02-2012, 09:37 PM
  #154
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Justin Faulk
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2011-12 NHL All Rookie team

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06-02-2012, 09:38 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Jake Gardiner
2010-11 Wisconsin Badger
2011-12 NHL All Rookie team

Still with us go wings? Have I replied to you?
Oh right, the Maple Leafs, the team who finished 13/15 in the East this year. Let's build our team like theirs.

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06-02-2012, 09:39 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Yeah, my position isn't a slight on Smith at all, it's just the butt hurt peeps coming up with every cockamamie excuse in the book for why we shouldn't take a shot at signing a guy who could fill a gaping hole we have in our top 4. I'm actually saying both Smith and Schultz should play together for roughly 20 mins a night, including PP time.

It's hilarious how we cannot possibly play Smith for 20 mins and have to play him on the 3rd pairing for 10 mins a night. But of course if that's the case why not send him back down to Grand Rapids again so he can play 20-25 minutes a night. I am the only person who sees the catch 22 there? But hey, it worked super well for Kyle Quincey and Jakub Kindl so no need to fix what ain't broke.
I didn't take your posts as a slight to Smith. I think the kid has the goods to prove himself this year, although he should have been given the chance to prove himself last season. At the same time, I don't think the Wings would have to tell Schultz "Well kid, we know you have game, but see, here's the thing- we kinda screwed Smith last year and made him play in GR while less talented guys played in his place for the Wings, so we now have to do the same thing to you. Enjoy the bus rides to Milwaukee, but while you're in GR, make sure to hit up Yesterdogs for a great chili dog (they really are fantastic, btw)." I'm fine with figuring out a way to work them both into important roles with the Wings, because the current cast is average at best.

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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Right, but I question how much weaker adding Schultz and guaranteeing him minutes would help us over Quincey or another proven UFA.

I'm all for signing him, I'm just wary of giving him 20 mins and full PP time without ever seeing him in the NHL before. Is that unreasonable?
That is completely reasonable to me, to not promise him 20 mins and top PP time right away. Don't want to sign a guy who has the impression that he fills out the lineup card instead of Babcock. I just HATE the thought of Q in our top 4, and to be honest, if Q ends up being a fixture in our top 4 for years to come, we're in trouble. We may be initially weaker by letting younger guys take Q's spot in the top 4, but by the time the PO's come up, I'd rather see Kyle turning over pucks as a 5/6 instead of top 4.

I don't think Schultz takes a top 4 spot from any decent UFA we may sign, though- as has been mentioned earlier, Kronwall is really the only proven top 4 guy on the roster right now, so you're not trying to force Schultz into a top 4 with 3-4 solid guys already there.

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06-02-2012, 09:39 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Justin Faulk
2010-11 Minnesota Duluth
2011-12 NHL All Rookie team
Ah, good eye, the Hurricanes!!! 12/15 in the east. Man this is the recipe for success. Seeing a trend here?

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06-02-2012, 09:41 PM
  #158
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John Michael Lyles
2002-03 Michigan State
2003-04 NHL All Rookie team

You can flip flop like Heaton all you want, I've given you several guys who came directly from college to become the best rookies in the league. So don't sit here and pretend like I haven't replied to you. You have no argument no matter how much you try and change your argument and then think you're being clever.

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06-02-2012, 09:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
Oh right, the Maple Leafs, the team who finished 13/15 in the East this year. Let's build our team like theirs.
Don't think that a team sucking means that all of their players are terrible. That Tavares guy is pretty decent for the Islanders.

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06-02-2012, 09:48 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
John Michael Lyles
2002-03 Michigan State
2003-04 NHL All Rookie team

You can flip flop like Heaton all you want, I've given you several guys who came directly from college to become the best rookies in the league. So don't sit here and pretend like I haven't replied to you. You have no argument no matter how much you try and change your argument and then think you're being clever.
Many of these teams played these guys out of necessity because they were non-playoff teams with holes in their roster who had to plug in young guys out of neccessity and desperation. All I am saying is I don't want to be in that company of teams. We haven't been that type of team for 20 years. Also most of these guys are not playing top 4 minutes on these teams like you are advocating. The guys I listed who played top 4 had a very difficult time with those match-ups right out of college.


Last edited by Frk It: 06-02-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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06-02-2012, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
Don't think that a team sucking means that all of their players are terrible. That Tavares guy is pretty decent for the Islanders.
Bbbbut that doesn't support his case so he has to twist and turn to make it appear that his argument doesn't have some glaring counter examples.

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06-02-2012, 09:55 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
These are all teams who played these guys out of necessity because they were non-playoff teams with holes in their roster who had to plug in young guys out of neccessity and desperation. All I am saying is I don't want to be in that company of teams. We haven't been that type of team for 20 years. Also most of these guys are not playing top 4 minutes on these teams like you are advocating. The guys I listed who played top 4 had a very difficult time with those match-ups right out of college.
I definitely understand what you are saying, and clearly most of those teams were out of contention and willing to play the young guys. If this was a year or 2 ago and the Schultz thing comes up, it's a non-issue for the Wings b/c they have Lidstrom, Stuart, and Kronwall in the top 4 so there's no need at all to give a rookie time there. Sadly, two of those guys are history and the one remaining is the worst of the 3 defensively, so I really think it's lackluster D-corps that's making this a possibility (at least to the fans- maybe Holland is convinced that Quincey/Kindl will be the new Stevens/Neidermayer shut down pair).

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06-02-2012, 10:04 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
I definitely understand what you are saying, and clearly most of those teams were out of contention and willing to play the young guys. If this was a year or 2 ago and the Schultz thing comes up, it's a non-issue for the Wings b/c they have Lidstrom, Stuart, and Kronwall in the top 4 so there's no need at all to give a rookie time there. Sadly, two of those guys are history and the one remaining is the worst of the 3 defensively, so I really think it's lackluster D-corps that's making this a possibility (at least to the fans- maybe Holland is convinced that Quincey/Kindl will be the new Stevens/Neidermayer shut down pair).
Right but I just don't want to see the Wings turn to that kind of desperation. Edmonton will probably offer Schultz a deal with guaranteed top 4 minutes. I don't really want to be in that type of company. It's not like we don't have a ton of cap room. Let's pursue Suter, Garrison, Wideman, Carle, guys who have proven they can handle top 4 minutes. Let's pursue trade options. Let's do all that first. I'm not opposed to signing Schultz. But only as a 6/7 dman, and only if we strike out on better UFA's. As our D sits right now, I absolutely agree we need an upgrade. I doubt Schultz would be an upgrade his first year over what we currently have. Most times that's not the case.

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06-02-2012, 10:09 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
I definitely understand what you are saying, and clearly most of those teams were out of contention and willing to play the young guys. If this was a year or 2 ago and the Schultz thing comes up, it's a non-issue for the Wings b/c they have Lidstrom, Stuart, and Kronwall in the top 4 so there's no need at all to give a rookie time there. Sadly, two of those guys are history and the one remaining is the worst of the 3 defensively, so I really think it's lackluster D-corps that's making this a possibility (at least to the fans- maybe Holland is convinced that Quincey/Kindl will be the new Stevens/Neidermayer shut down pair).
Yeah I am having a good laugh at a couple people's expense but I am seriously interested in seeing what Holland does. We don't have Nick Lidstrom anymore and to pretend we can just acquire a couple defensemen and everything will be hunky dory is seriously bat**** crazy. I can't believe that will be Ken Holland's approach come July 1th.

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06-02-2012, 10:11 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Yeah I am having a good laugh at a couple people's expense but I am seriously interested in seeing what Holland does. We don't have Nick Lidstrom anymore and to pretend we can just acquire a couple defensemen and everything will be hunky dory is seriously bat**** crazy. I can't believe that will be Ken Holland's approach come July 1th.
Do you not like any of the UFA's that could hit the market this summer?

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06-02-2012, 10:27 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
Do you not like any of the UFA's that could hit the market this summer?
Sure, Schultz happens to be one of them. And he has a ton more upside than most of them.

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06-02-2012, 10:43 PM
  #167
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I don't know that we'll get Justin Schultz on July 1th. But I think we'll get somebody.

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06-02-2012, 10:43 PM
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Sure, Schultz happens to be one of them. And he has a ton more upside than most of them.
I would like to have Schultz for the long term, just not top 4 in his first season. If we don't re-sign Quincey, I wouldn't mind signing Suter as the #1 and Schultz as the #6.

Suter-White
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Schutlz

I would be happy with those lines.

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06-02-2012, 10:44 PM
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I don't know that we'll get Justin Schultz on July 1th. But I think we'll get somebody.
cut the ****.

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06-02-2012, 10:50 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
I would like to have Schultz for the long term, just not top 4 in his first season. If we don't re-sign Quincey, I wouldn't mind signing Suter as the #1 and Schultz as the #6.

Suter-White
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Schutlz

I would be happy with those lines.
I could live that too. I'd probably play Ericsson with Schultz and have Smith with Kronwall, but whatever, not a big deal. I'd like to think that Babcock would also have Smith spending some time playing w/ Suter at ES (long term, I think Smith is a top pairing guy and having him playing with a solid stay at home guy could let him open up the offense, like Doughty's end to end rush and goal tonight). Oh, and plenty of PP time for the kids, too.

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06-03-2012, 12:06 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
I would like to have Schultz for the long term, just not top 4 in his first season. If we don't re-sign Quincey, I wouldn't mind signing Suter as the #1 and Schultz as the #6.

Suter-White
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Schutlz

I would be happy with those lines.
That would be great. Young and talentful corp, yet pretty experienced. But, perhaps not so realistic.

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06-03-2012, 07:34 AM
  #172
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Our team is no longer so stacked that we can afford to not take any roster risks.

If you can sign a guy who would've been a sure-fire top-10 pick this year (if he were in the draft) and put him in your top-6 and promise him 16 minutes a night and some PP time, you do it.

This team needs to start taking some chances for the future, because we likely won't be cup contenders next year with the players we have now or will likely get. If you can grab Schultz and develop him into a potential 20+ minute a night guy, you are looking good. Schultz and Smith would be a nasty pair in 2-3 seasons.

Ericsson\Schultz\Kronwall\Smith would be extremely difficult to play against...4 puck moving defenseman who can hit, skate extremely well, and two of whom will scrap every once in a while. That would be a big change from our previous D setup. If you can add Suter or Wideman to that defense, in addition to White\Quincey, you are looking at a top-5 NHL defense again within 5 seasons. Especially if Ouelette\Sproul continue to improve.

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06-03-2012, 09:21 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
Our team is no longer so stacked that we can afford to not take any roster risks.

If you can sign a guy who would've been a sure-fire top-10 pick this year (if he were in the draft) and put him in your top-6 and promise him 16 minutes a night and some PP time, you do it.

This team needs to start taking some chances for the future, because we likely won't be cup contenders next year with the players we have now or will likely get. If you can grab Schultz and develop him into a potential 20+ minute a night guy, you are looking good. Schultz and Smith would be a nasty pair in 2-3 seasons.

Ericsson\Schultz\Kronwall\Smith would be extremely difficult to play against...4 puck moving defenseman who can hit, skate extremely well, and two of whom will scrap every once in a while. That would be a big change from our previous D setup. If you can add Suter or Wideman to that defense, in addition to White\Quincey, you are looking at a top-5 NHL defense again within 5 seasons. Especially if Ouelette\Sproul continue to improve.
Well said, very well said. Let's remember people we've got one top 4 dman right now in Kronwall. I am an Ericsson fan and I think he'll be fine. Ian White had a career year plus/minus wise last year, most players did when they played alongside #5. That's gone forever. We need to get top level talent if we're going to be competitive. There are no guarantees we'll be able to sign Schultz but I just shake my head at people who argue we shouldn't even take a run at the guy. Unbelievable.

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06-03-2012, 01:31 PM
  #174
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Top 4 minutes isnt that much to ask of him I dont think, considering hes supposed to be better than Gardiner and Smith. 16 minutes of even strength and use him as the righty on the PP would be great.

He would be a better PP option than White and I dont think anyone would disagree there. So he gets sheltered even strength minutes and plays a lot of PP to get his ice time he wanted.

This team doesnt have Lidstrom anymore and if they cant land Suter you need to build for the future. This guy is one of, if not the best non NHL defensive prospects out there and the wings could possibly grab him for nothing

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06-03-2012, 01:56 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
I would like to have Schultz for the long term, just not top 4 in his first season. If we don't re-sign Quincey, I wouldn't mind signing Suter as the #1 and Schultz as the #6.

Suter-White
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Schutlz

I would be happy with those lines.
You don't want Schultz getting top 4 minutes but you want two rookies on the third pairing? That is a greater recipe for disaster. If the kid can handle the top 4, let him play there. If he can't, move him down.

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