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Dudley believes Maple Leafs are ‘so close’ to being good

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Old
05-26-2012, 08:42 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Is that an alien race?

You're funny...
Pretty much.

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05-26-2012, 08:51 PM
  #102
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Bland generalizations as Dudley walks out the door. As mentioned numerous times, any team would benefit with three moves as outlined by Dudley.

But can Burke get it done? Unlikely. His inability to make the right moves when it comes to goaltenders is well-documented.

Not mentioned by many is the fact that Dudley is out the door knowing all the Leafs aspirations, intended moves and draft strategy...

...before the draft.


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05-26-2012, 08:58 PM
  #103
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He's mentioned this in the past (that Burke's building an elite team in Toronto, etc, etc).

Not that it matters a whole lot.

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05-26-2012, 10:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Which month?

The Leafs were 26-34-9 over the last 5 months of the season (November 5 to April 7th).
Early/Mid February through Mid-March, it was called a "month" earlier in the thread, but it's more like a 4-5 week stretch. They won something like 2 of 15 games in that stretch with very few OT/SOL and the majority of the -33 goal differential was during that period.

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05-26-2012, 10:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
I hate it when people say this. It always comes down to having a good team overall with depth on offense, defense, and solid goaltending. When will people learn?

2006 - Hurricanes, lots of depth on offense with Staal, Brind'amour, Recchi, Weight, Whitney, Cole, Stillman, Williams, Cullen, etc.; offensively, they were stacked. The defense was nothing special, they had dependable guys but no real star with the likes of Wesley, Commodore, F.Kaberle, Ward and Wallin. Goaltending, they had a young Cam Ward who played amazing and won a Conn Smythe. Offense and goaltending carried that team, not defense.

2007 - Ducks, arguably the best team to win a Cup post-lockout. Stacked everywhere, Getzlaf Perry Penner (when he was still good) Selanne McDonald Kunitz on offense, Niedermayer Pronger Beauchemin on D, Giguere in net. The most complete team.

2008 - Red Wings, again stacked everywhere. Datsyuk Zetterberg Holmstrom Franzen Hudler etc., on D they had Lidstrom Kronwall Rafalski, and Osgood in net who was an average goalie but played well in the post-season

2009 - Penguins. Crosby Malkin Staal Kunitz, a decent but not great d-corps with Goligoski, Letang, Gonchar, Orpik, Scuderi, etc. Fleury is a good goalie, but he was not that great in the playoffs this particular season (.908 sv%)

2010- Blackhawks. Probably the best team after the Ducks. Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Bolland, Brouwer. On D, Keith Seabrook Hjalmarsson Campbell. Niemi in net, who was another average goalie but good enough for the team to win the Cup

2011- Bruins, had an okay offense with Krejci, Horton, Lucic, Peverley, Bergeron, Marchand, Recchi, Ryder, etc. Not the most talented but lots of depth. on D, Chara Seidenberg Boychuk McQuaid Kaberle and Ference. and of course, Tim Thomas in net putting up one of the best modern day playoff performances by a goalie.

All of these teams had depth everywhere. To say that defense and goaltending wins championships is stupid, you need offense just as much. If you disagree, look no further than the New York Rangers. They had a very solid defense and arguably the best goalie in the league in Lundqvist, but lost in 6 games to the Devils. At some point, barely winning games by one goal everytime and relying on Lundqvist for a God-like performance every game was going to wear it's course.

Of all the post-lockout examples, only the Bruins actually support your argument somewhat, as they lacked a #1C, but they were still really deep up front. Even the example you gave for the Devils is laughable, because despite them not having a #1C, their offense has been the strong point in their game and the key to bringing them this far. Parise Kovalchuk Zajac Elias Henrique Clarkson. Their defense is nothing special, individually it's one of the more mediocre d-corps' in the league, they don't even have a true #1 D-man or true top-pairing guy. Brodeur has played well, but is still not at the "vintage" Brodeur level from the pre-lockout era. And also the Cup favourite at this point is L.A., who has a #1C in Kopitar and a very potent offense as well.

Carolina had Staal, Anaheim had Getzlaf, Detroit had Datsyuk&Zetterberg, Pittsburgh had Crosby and Malkin, Chicago had Toews. These teams also had lots of depth up front.

Good offense, defense and goaltending win championships, that's the bottom line.
It's nice to have all 3 huh? But 1 thing we do know, you can't win a cup without good defencemen and quality goaltending in the post wild west Gretzky days.

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05-26-2012, 10:53 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YearsintheWilderness View Post
Bland generalizations as Dudley walks out the door. As mentioned numerous times, any team would benefit with three moves as outlined by Dudley.

But can Burke get it done? Unlikely. His inability to make the right moves when it comes to goaltenders is well-documented.

Not mentioned by many is the fact that Dudley is out the door knowing all the Leafs aspirations, intended moves and draft strategy...

...before the draft.

I believe Dudley is sincere since he said the same thing prior to the start of this season while he was employed by the Leafs. He hasn't been inconsistent with this opinion.

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05-26-2012, 11:11 PM
  #107
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Whatever the case is, I have immense amount of respect for Dudley and he's a class person. I really doubt he would do anything to start a controversy. All the best to him in Montreal, I don't like it but I definitely understand the decision.

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05-27-2012, 12:57 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I agree with Dudley on one part, finding a #1 goalie is the piece we need to get over the hump, not so much the focus on a #1C that everyone seems to be so singleminded on. Finding good #2C's and I am not talking about the Grabo types who are a #3 on a good team. I mean more Krejci, Bergeron, Henrique, Zajac types and not necessarily the superstars at C that win cups, it always comes down to Defenceman and Goaltending. When will people learn?
When will people like yourself stop undervaluing Leaf players like Grabovski? When will people learn it takes a TEAM to win that ALL it's parts have to do it's job to consistanly win. Other than goaltending not one role is more important than the other ALL are important from the star offensive player to the plug 4th liner something the great coaches of this game constantly preach yet few fans or media grasp.

The NHL is a goaltenders league, X10 in the playoffs X100 when your building a team to grow a team. The thing about this position is that it's hit or miss on any given season regardless if you've landed a proven #1 goalie to start a season or if you go young like the Leafs did..... Take a good hard look at the past 10 years how many goalies have been consistently top notch during that time frame? Off the top of my mind just 3 Broduer, Kipper and Lunqvuist... You could add Luango to that but not in the playoffs... Thomas came from out of nowhere that turned Boston around, Theodore went from a Hart trophy winner to playing on 3 or 4 different teams since that year having up and down years, Bryzgolov did a 180 this year with a much better team in front of him than he had in Phoenix, Vokoun this year proved that he wouldn't have helped the Leafs at all the way he played for Washington, Did anybody predict Quick would have had the year he's had this year with LA or how about M. Smith on Phoenix? Dudley talked about the Bullin wall well what has he done since that cup year? There's many, many more examples of this, longevity in goalies is a rare thing you really shouldn't chase your best bet is to fill the position from within or with unproven but talented tenders who are hungry yet CONFIDENT to get the job done with an opportunity just like how P. Roy, Cam Ward, M. Smith, J. Quick, Ed Belfour etc. etc. that's how you land elite goaltending when for proven it's almost impossible to trade for it just as rare to get via UFA.

As a GM you need to look at the signs goalies show to whom you chose as your 2 and not base it on past experience or the name that's how you get burned heavily and as far as I'm concern from what is deemed available in goalies the best bet the Leafs have to fill the position is in Reimer and Scrivens as a dual. Luango's contract doesn't make sense at all for the Leafs to trade for him when his confidance is at a all time low + when they have these 2 young goalies even with the maligned Komisarek going the other way, Broduer will retire a Devil, Don't see Lunqvuist getting traded any time soon so that just leaves Calgary's Kipper will they trade him? Doubt it. So where does Burke turn to for this elite #1 goalie? He does what he's been doing go with talented unproven guys until somebody steps up and don't waste time on hasbins or over pay for past performances like Philly did with Bryz or Detroit did not so long ago with Cujo. The Leafs do need to add veterans but not in net that position is hit or miss regardless of experience so it really doesn't matter as much, it's nice to have but it's not the answer when looking for elite goaltending.

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05-28-2012, 08:13 AM
  #109
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"All the Leafs have to do is get a top 5 NHL goalie and they will be good!"

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05-28-2012, 08:16 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
When will people like yourself stop undervaluing Leaf players like Grabovski? When will people learn it takes a TEAM to win that ALL it's parts have to do it's job to consistanly win. Other than goaltending not one role is more important than the other ALL are important from the star offensive player to the plug 4th liner something the great coaches of this game constantly preach yet few fans or media grasp.

The NHL is a goaltenders league, X10 in the playoffs X100 when your building a team to grow a team. The thing about this position is that it's hit or miss on any given season regardless if you've landed a proven #1 goalie to start a season or if you go young like the Leafs did..... Take a good hard look at the past 10 years how many goalies have been consistently top notch during that time frame? Off the top of my mind just 3 Broduer, Kipper and Lunqvuist... You could add Luango to that but not in the playoffs... Thomas came from out of nowhere that turned Boston around, Theodore went from a Hart trophy winner to playing on 3 or 4 different teams since that year having up and down years, Bryzgolov did a 180 this year with a much better team in front of him than he had in Phoenix, Vokoun this year proved that he wouldn't have helped the Leafs at all the way he played for Washington, Did anybody predict Quick would have had the year he's had this year with LA or how about M. Smith on Phoenix? Dudley talked about the Bullin wall well what has he done since that cup year? There's many, many more examples of this, longevity in goalies is a rare thing you really shouldn't chase your best bet is to fill the position from within or with unproven but talented tenders who are hungry yet CONFIDENT to get the job done with an opportunity just like how P. Roy, Cam Ward, M. Smith, J. Quick, Ed Belfour etc. etc. that's how you land elite goaltending when for proven it's almost impossible to trade for it just as rare to get via UFA.

As a GM you need to look at the signs goalies show to whom you chose as your 2 and not base it on past experience or the name that's how you get burned heavily and as far as I'm concern from what is deemed available in goalies the best bet the Leafs have to fill the position is in Reimer and Scrivens as a dual. Luango's contract doesn't make sense at all for the Leafs to trade for him when his confidance is at a all time low + when they have these 2 young goalies even with the maligned Komisarek going the other way, Broduer will retire a Devil, Don't see Lunqvuist getting traded any time soon so that just leaves Calgary's Kipper will they trade him? Doubt it. So where does Burke turn to for this elite #1 goalie? He does what he's been doing go with talented unproven guys until somebody steps up and don't waste time on hasbins or over pay for past performances like Philly did with Bryz or Detroit did not so long ago with Cujo. The Leafs do need to add veterans but not in net that position is hit or miss regardless of experience so it really doesn't matter as much, it's nice to have but it's not the answer when looking for elite goaltending.
I have no problem with Grabo, he is a nice 3C if we ever become a contender, I do see a problem paying 5.5M for a 3C so I do take issue with Burke agreeing to a deal such as this, if he isn't moved before July 1. There is a window of opening if the Leafs want to explore this. I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Chris Kelly can do all the things Grabo does and better, with only a slight decline in goals and at a far less salary and term.

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05-28-2012, 02:56 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Whatever the case is, I have immense amount of respect for Dudley and he's a class person. I really doubt he would do anything to start a controversy. All the best to him in Montreal, I don't like it but I definitely understand the decision.

And Dudley reiterates what he said in the newspaper during an interview on the Fan 590 last night . Class act and I hope his assessment is right. I believe it is.

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media...8_031727_13460

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