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Toronto's goaltending situation

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:26 PM
  #926
nhlfan9191
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Originally Posted by lush View Post
I'm OK with that deal, Canucks could always parlay that early 2nd somewhere for a an impact role player to help win now
I don't know much about Gardiner, but from what I've heard, my proposal of him + a second might be a little bit to much.

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06-15-2012, 08:28 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Out of curiosity, exactly how does one go about being reality?
Omg I couldn't stop laughing when I read that. So thanks for beating me to it. Thats what you want people to say but it's not going to happen. Pointless response!!!!

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:28 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Brian Burke's mouth? Or are you a more credible source than your own GM?

I wish I saved the link, but I'm sure if you need proof, I can probably dig it up somewhere.

Burke mentioned that Vokoun was Plan A and that he was now shifting gears to Lindback as plan B.

Running someone out of town does not diminish how good of a player they are.

Indy ran out Payton Manning, last I checked he was back to form in Denver.

I find it funny Leaf fans want a superstar player for nothing. There's a reason free-agents like Hamhuis choose Vancouver, whereas the Leafs, get Free Agents like Finger.
No, he didn't. Stop repeating other people's ********.

Steve Simmons wrote that the Leafs had serious interest in Vokoun, and another writer followed up a couple of days later saying they had interest in Vokoun and Lindback. There was no quote anywhere from Burke.

Burke has never come out in public and said anything about who he is going after. He has played his cards close to the vest all spring and summer.

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I know Leafs fans care about that but I don't think Brian Burke is in a position to.
The second Burke stops worrying about what is best for the franchise and starts worrying about what is best for himself he should be fired.

If he gets fired right now he finds another job easily, if he makes a bunch of bad trades to save his job maybe that isnt so easy after all.

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06-15-2012, 08:35 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
No, he didn't. Stop repeating other people's ********.

Steve Simmons wrote that the Leafs had serious interest in Vokoun, and another writer followed up a couple of days later saying they had interest in Vokoun and Lindback. There was no quote anywhere from Burke.

Burke has never come out in public and said anything about who he is going after. He has played his cards close to the vest all spring and summer.
Its not just playing your cards close to the vest, its against league rules to express an interest in players under contract to another origination.

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:37 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
The second Burke stops worrying about what is best for the franchise and starts worrying about what is best for himself he should be fired.

If he gets fired right now he finds another job easily, if he makes a bunch of bad trades to save his job maybe that isnt so easy after all.
If he trades secondary assets (2nd 2012, Kulemin, MacArthur, etc) for a premiere goalie he (Luongo) saves his job IMO.

If he stays the course for the rebuild his job is on the line next summer.

IMO trading non core pieces of the Leafs to acquire a top end talent is a trade he has to make this off-season.

If Franson + 2nd doesn't sway Gillis to move Luongo he will have to pony up (note: this doesn't mean move the 5th or Gardiner).

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #932
cyris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
If he trades secondary assets (2nd 2012, Kulemin, MacArthur, etc) for a premiere goalie he (Luongo) saves his job IMO.

If he stays the course for the rebuild his job is on the line next summer.

IMO trading non core pieces of the Leafs to acquire a top end talent is a trade he has to make this off-season.

If Franson + 2nd doesn't sway Gillis to move Luongo he will have to pony up (note: this doesn't mean move the 5th or Gardiner).
If that is the kind of return your looking for I agree its acceptable. Tho Kulie is pretty close to a core asset imo.
He is our only top 6 offensive forward with size and the best one defensively.

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06-15-2012, 09:19 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
If that is the kind of return your looking for I agree its acceptable. Tho Kulie is pretty close to a core asset imo.
He is our only top 6 offensive forward with size and the best one defensively.
Yes I'm aware of how good Kulemin is, and how unlucky he was points wise this season.

If the cost to acquire Luongo includes the following (not all):
Frattin, Kulemin, MacArthur, Bozak, Connolly

1st 2013, 2nd 2012

All prospects.

Would Leafs fans be happy with parting with a player like Frattin/Kadri?
No, but if the cost of a top tier goaltender is a prospect who might become a 2nd line forward, Burke takes that risk.

Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Ashton
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Holzer
Liles - Schenn
Komisarek

Luongo
Reimer


If Burke can pull that line-up off and add a player like Schultz he solidifies his job.

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:32 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Yes I'm aware of how good Kulemin is, and how unlucky he was points wise this season.

If the cost to acquire Luongo includes the following (not all):
Frattin, Kulemin, MacArthur, Bozak, Connolly


1st 2013, 2nd 2012

All prospects.

Would Leafs fans be happy with parting with a player like Frattin/Kadri?
No, but if the cost of a top tier goaltender is a prospect who might become a 2nd line forward, Burke takes that risk.

Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Ashton
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Holzer
Liles - Schenn
Komisarek

Luongo
Reimer


If Burke can pull that line-up off and add a player like Schultz he solidifies his job.
NO WAY this is what they are thinking!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would he trade any of those guys u mention above for a huge overblown contract?
IMO its Komi, Connelly and a 4th to Van
Tor gets Luongo
or
Van gets Komi, Army,Lombo, and a 3rd
Tor Luongo and 2nd

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:36 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
IMO its Komi, Connelly and a 4th to Van
Tor gets Luongo
or
Van gets Komi, Army,Lombo, and a 3rd
Tor Luongo and 2nd
Explain to me why a cup contending team like Vancouver does those trades.

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:51 PM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Brian Burke's mouth? Or are you a more credible source than your own GM?

I wish I saved the link, but I'm sure if you need proof, I can probably dig it up somewhere.

Burke mentioned that Vokoun was Plan A and that he was now shifting gears to Lindback as plan B.

Yeah, I want proof of that. For Burke to have mentioned either player publicly when they were the property of other teams would be tampering so I definitely want to see your proof.



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Running someone out of town does not diminish how good of a player they are.
Yeah, it shows that fans in the towns that they were run out of are idiots.



Quote:
I find it funny Leaf fans want a superstar player for nothing.

If he is a superstar why have you geniuses run him out of town then?

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:53 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Gardner + 2nd pick is a realistic price for him.

Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?


Last edited by colchar: 06-15-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
06-15-2012, 09:54 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
I guess Vorkosh isn't gonna provide that link.

He's busy creating the website and posting the alleged comments so that he can link them here.

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:57 PM
  #939
colchar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post

Gillis keeps both goalies for the beginning of the season, the Reimer-Scrivens tandom falters, Burke is about to get run out of town, Canucks get overpayment for Luongo.
Luongo is not the only goalie in the league. The Leafs can look elsewhere and leave Vancouver holding the bag with both their goalies.


Quote:
the leafs should have gone for Lindback or Volkun.
Why? Lindback has like 40 games in the NHL. If we were to go with someone that inexperienced why not just stick with Reimer and Scrivens who cost us nothing? As for Vokoun, he might have been an option for a year but I do not blame Burke for not getting him as he has health issues and therefore would be a dicey commit for two years.


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I'm not expecting Gardiner or the #5 but some assets for sure and no cap dumps.
Assets, but not prime ones and a cap dump is almost certain to be included.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #940
colchar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Burke has never come out in public and said anything about who he is going after. He has played his cards close to the vest all spring and summer.

He is being so quiet that it makes you wonder what he might have in the works.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:12 PM
  #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
IMO its Komi, Connelly and a 4th to Van
Tor gets Luongo
Canada can rest soundly tonight, having gotten your opinion on this issue.

There are gonna be some sad pandas in Toronto due to setting delusional expectations - if Luongo goes to Toronto. Which I don't think will happen. Vancouver will run two all-star goalies next year, as it clearly seems to be a good way to compete for a President's trophy.

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06-15-2012, 10:18 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Canada can rest soundly tonight, having gotten your opinion on this issue.

There are gonna be some sad pandas in Toronto due to setting delusional expectations - if Luongo goes to Toronto. Which I don't think will happen. Vancouver will run two all-star goalies next year, as it clearly seems to be a good way to compete for a President's trophy.
It's way too early to call Schneider an all-star goalie.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:21 PM
  #943
colchar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Explain to me why a cup contending team like Vancouver does those trades.
Because of the following:

1) There are only a limited, perhaps very limited, number of teams to which they can trade him because of the NTC and Luongo controls where he goes.

2) His contract is a huge issue - word from MacLean and Garrett yesterday was that there is virtually no interest in him throughout the league precisely because of his contract.

3) Vancouver cannot go with both goalies because CS wants to be the #1.

4) Vancouver is under pressure to move him while Toronto and the other teams on Luongo's list are not under the same pressure as Luongo is not the only goalie in the league and they all have other options.

5) I would hope that the team has more class than to have Luongo there after it has become known that he said he wanted out - can you imagine how the fans would treat him?

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:24 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Yes I'm aware of how good Kulemin is, and how unlucky he was points wise this season.

If the cost to acquire Luongo includes the following (not all):
Frattin, Kulemin, MacArthur, Bozak, Connolly

1st 2013, 2nd 2012

All prospects.

Would Leafs fans be happy with parting with a player like Frattin/Kadri?
No, but if the cost of a top tier goaltender is a prospect who might become a 2nd line forward, Burke takes that risk.

Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Ashton
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Holzer
Liles - Schenn
Komisarek

Luongo
Reimer


If Burke can pull that line-up off and add a player like Schultz he solidifies his job.
It wont be what that other guys said.. but I doubt it includes a frattin kadri or Kulemin.

I could see a MacArthur Komi 2nd
or
Joe C Komi Lombardi

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06-15-2012, 10:35 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Because of the following:

1) There are only a limited, perhaps very limited, number of teams to which they can trade him because of the NTC and Luongo controls where he goes. Vancouver keeps him

2) His contract is a huge issue - word from MacLean and Garrett yesterday was that there is virtually no interest in him throughout the league precisely because of his contract. Garrett as an insider? Laughable

3) Vancouver cannot go with both goalies because CS wants to be the #1. Vancouver can't afford to give away a goalie and receive cap dumps as a return

4) Vancouver is under pressure to move him while Toronto and the other teams on Luongo's list are not under the same pressure as Luongo is not the only goalie in the league and they all have other options. Vancouver can keep him.

5) I would hope that the team has more class than to have Luongo there after it has become known that he said he wanted out - can you imagine how the fans would treat him? He can be a professional he's being paid millions to be like
If the return is
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
Komi, Connolly and a 4th to Van

or
Van gets Komi, Army,Lombo, and a 3rd
Gillis keeps him.

Luongo as backup > Komisarek + dumps.

If Luongo doesn't like it he can waive his NTC.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:35 PM
  #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Yes I'm aware of how good Kulemin is, and how unlucky he was points wise this season.

If the cost to acquire Luongo includes the following (not all):
Frattin, Kulemin, MacArthur, Bozak, Connolly

1st 2013, 2nd 2012

All prospects.

Would Leafs fans be happy with parting with a player like Frattin/Kadri?
No, but if the cost of a top tier goaltender is a prospect who might become a 2nd line forward, Burke takes that risk.

Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabo - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Ashton
Brown - Steckel - Armstrong

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Holzer
Liles - Schenn
Komisarek

Luongo
Reimer


If Burke can pull that line-up off and add a player like Schultz he solidifies his job.
If 2 of Bozak/Connolly/MacArthur plus a pick (2nd and lower) was all it took, I wouldn't hesitate at all. It would hurt to lose MacArthur and our centre depth is absolutely ****, but God knows we need a good goalie.

edit: Didn't see the 2013 1st....with this roster AND a possible impending lockout, no way in hell would I include that. It might be top 5 again. Luongo can only do so much. We may hit bottom 5 again and it wouldn't even be his fault. Our luck is absolutely brutal. I'll put in Frattin.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:37 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
It's way too early to call Schneider an all-star goalie.
true but his numbers are very impressive, especially for being on a team that isn't defense first like all the other teams with top goalies.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:42 PM
  #948
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I don't know, right now...I'm very int-t-t-to the universe, you know? Like how it was created, you know like what is it? You know, solar system is so humongous big, right, but if you see like our solar system and like our galaxy and like on the side, you know like it was so small, you can't even see it. Our galaxy is huge, but if you see the big picture, our galaxy is like small tiny. Like dot in the universe.

And you think, like, we have some problems here on the Earth that we worry about. Compared to like ... nothing. Just, be happy. Don't worry, be happy right now.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:47 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by devilishleafs View Post
NO WAY this is what they are thinking!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would he trade any of those guys u mention above for a huge overblown contract?
IMO its Komi, Connelly and a 4th to Van
Tor gets Luongo
or
Van gets Komi, Army,Lombo, and a 3rd
Tor Luongo and 2nd

Lindback got an amazing return and hockey-wise Luongo is much much better. the contract has been argued for 11 threads, I thought it was decided that the contract was structured so that luongo would retire after 6-7 years. if his numbers drop after two years he isn't worth much in trade, but if he can keep up a 0.915+ for 4-5 years he should get more than you are saying.

if the cap goes up this year his 5.33 does not look bad at all, especially when 3rd liners are getting 4 mill these days.

if the trade doesn't work i'm okay with giving schneider 4 mill and 50-60 games, keeping luu on the bench. 9.33 for the best goalie tandem in the league is workable, especially if the cap goes up. even if we got rid of luongo, signed schneider for 4 mill and a backup for 2 mill, it is only a 3.33 mill difference. in free agency today 3.33 doesn't take you far.

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:00 PM
  #950
colchar
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Vancouver keeps him
Yeah good luck with that. How happy is CS going to be? And doesn't that organization have more class than to keep him when it has become known that he asked to be traded? Are they really that scummy that they would subject him to the abuse the fans would surely heap on him?



Quote:
Garrett as an insider? Laughable
Oh get over yourself. He is far more connected than you will ever be and MacLean, as a former GM, is most definitely connected. You might not agree with Garrett and might not like him but to say that he and MacLean are not connected is pathetic, especially as it intimates that you somehow know better than they do when the fact is that you do not.


Quote:
Vancouver can't afford to give away a goalie and receive cap dumps as a return
They will most likely have to take on some salary.


Quote:
Vancouver can keep him.
Like I said, good luck with that.


Quote:
He can be a professional he's being paid millions to be like
I didn't say he wouldn't be, I said the fans would treat him horribly and that I would hope the team would have more class than to subject him to that.

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