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Schultz talk pt. 2

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Old
05-30-2012, 09:23 PM
  #351
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If you best friend walks in on your girlfriend and another guy at a party does she need to confess this to you? Or do you choose to ignore it?

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05-30-2012, 09:57 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Not to beat a dead horse...but did said girlfriend inform him that she was breaking up with him? If so, then it's not comparable to what most of us fans are complaining about.
It'd most be like a girlfriend who decided to break up with you, and possibly started dating someone else, but just kind of forgot to tell you that until you found out yourself. Still unreasonable to get mad over that.

And this really isn't like the Pronger situation. We gave up a lot of good assets to get him, and really, the only comparable is Ducks fans handling this and Oilers fans handling that. It's still completely different because Pronger was up front and had to get out of Edmonton(his own fault on that one, but still), while Schultz could've helped the Ducks recoup some assets, but didn't.

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05-30-2012, 10:11 PM
  #353
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The Leafs lost Bill Sweatt last year the same way,

all's fair in war and hockey- if the player never signed on the dotted line.

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05-30-2012, 10:18 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
The two situations have absolutely nothing in common. Pronger, for one, was upfront with Edmonton which allowed them to recoup assets in exchange for him. Secondly, the Ducks paid a very high premium to acquire Pronger's services from Edmonton. Schultz, on the other hand, apparently was not upfront with Anaheim which in turn did not allow them to recoup assets in exchange for him. Whichever team ends up signing him, most likely will sign him without giving up anything or giving up very little. Huge difference in scenarios. Where exactly does the hypocrisy enter into the equation? Unless you're referring to all of the teams ready to pounce on Schultz the minute they're allowed, which is what Anaheim did, but I haven't seen anybody say that was a problem.
Everyone on our board, myself included, has considered trading Ryan. Ryan left about 4 to 5 million dollars on the table to play with us. I have never heard a peep from any of us that we owe it to him to keep our word. Likewise, if Schultz signed an ELC with us, and there was talk of him being traded for say, a good second line center, no one would chime in to shoot down that deal on the basis of keeping our word or owing him a shot. I think it's fair to argue the ethics of the situation, or the lack of compensation for a situation like ours in the CBA, but there's a lot of self-righteous indignation here that comes across as entirely self-serving. This situation sucks. It's okay to be mad. Maybe something will come out after everything is said and done that points to very shady conduct behind the scenes, something that is genuinely actionable.

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05-30-2012, 10:23 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Everyone on our board, myself included, has considered trading Ryan. Ryan left about 4 to 5 million dollars on the table to play with us. I have never heard a peep from any of us that we owe it to him to keep our word. Likewise, if Schultz signed an ELC with us, and there was talk of him being traded for say, a good second line center, no one would chime in to shoot down that deal on the basis of keeping our word or owing him a shot. I think it's fair to argue the ethics of the situation, or the lack of compensation for a situation like ours in the CBA, but there's a lot of self-righteous indignation here that comes across as entirely self-serving. This situation sucks. It's okay to be mad. Maybe something will come out after everything is said and done that points to very shady conduct behind the scenes, something that is genuinely actionable.
Not to shoot down your points, because you have some valid ones here...but I'd like to point out that I've never been pro-trade Ryan. I've always either stayed out of the threads involving him being proposed or objected to him being traded if I did pipe in. I've always always always been against it while most others have been all for it. Just saying...

Edit: BTW, I agree with you that a lot of Duck fans are pissed as though he owes them personally. I am also upset over it, but I'm more upset at the loophole than him opting to use it. The part I'm against, as you mentioned, is him not informing them of his intentions to no longer sign.

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05-30-2012, 10:30 PM
  #356
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It looks like Vancouver, NYC, or San Jose to me.

Dark horses that might make sense, Calgary, Philly, Dallas.

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05-30-2012, 10:43 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Damn I thought it might be so I was gonna be like "Don't bro me dude" (South Park what's up!!) but my humor detector is a little off today

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Old
05-30-2012, 10:46 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Keke Mortsons helmet View Post
It looks like Vancouver, NYC, or San Jose to me.

Dark horses that might make sense, Calgary, Philly, Dallas.
With Lidstrom possibly retiring that makes two openings at least on the Detroit blue line. Former badger Brendan Smith and another UFA may take those spots but Schultz could have a shot at the everyday roster in Detroit now. I don't see why he would shun the Ducks then sign with Calgary. I think he's going to play in the States anyways. NYC, Detroit, Philly are my choices.

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05-30-2012, 10:49 PM
  #359
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schulltz has played with gardnier in Tor

mcdonagh and stephan in NYR

C. smith in nash
hes apparentaly undecided but excited at the once in a lifetime chance to choose where he can play

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05-30-2012, 10:52 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Keke Mortsons helmet View Post
It looks like Vancouver, NYC, or San Jose to me.

Dark horses that might make sense, Calgary, Philly, Dallas.
I'm not sure he would waive for those. Maybe for the Flyers, but I doubt we move the assets, unless Columbus is prepared to take "just" JVR and picks.

That said, it would be a big (if potentially disastrous) move. So it does sort of sound like Ed Snider.

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05-30-2012, 10:54 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Baun View Post
The Leafs lost Bill Sweatt last year the same way,

all's fair in war and hockey- if the player never signed on the dotted line.
Ya and how much did losing him hurt? Alot less then losing Schultz.

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Damn I thought it might be so I was gonna be like "Don't bro me dude" (South Park what's up!!) but my humor detector is a little off today
Thats what I was hoping you would do

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05-30-2012, 10:55 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Crazy8oooo View Post
Not to shoot down your points, because you have some valid ones here...but I'd like to point out that I've never been pro-trade Ryan. I've always either stayed out of the threads involving him being proposed or objected to him being traded if I did pipe in. I've always always always been against it while most others have been all for it. Just saying...

Edit: BTW, I agree with you that a lot of Duck fans are pissed as though he owes them personally. I am also upset over it, but I'm more upset at the loophole than him opting to use it. The part I'm against, as you mentioned, is him not informing them of his intentions to no longer sign.
No worries. It was a general statement. I wasn't trying to call you out or anything.

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05-30-2012, 11:43 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
I'm not even gonna make a serious effort to respond to this garbage because you keep ignoring the main part of the argument.

Whatever his reasons were, he could have let the Ducks know ahead of time and they would have been happy to accommodate him I'm sure. Instead, he says he wants to play for the Ducks repeatedly and changes his mind at the last ****ing minute, screwing over the Ducks BIG TIME in the process. He is well within his right to do it, but it still shows a complete lack of respect to the organization that first took a chance on you. I never said he lacked character, either, so I don't know where you got that. This just raises some red flags IMO.

Also, that is quite the "what if" scenario you listed...seems more like Canucks fan's hopes though...
The thing is no one knows what has happened in contract talks or player interviews. Maybe they offered him $870K like Etem and said take it or leave it. Maybe he had a recent interview with management and BB and they had significant differences in hockey philosophy, maybe he's just a dick - the thing is no one knows the facts behind his choices so it's not really fair to make a character judgement about somebody based on partial information and speculation. I understand the frustration, I would be pretty disappointed too if one of my teams top prospects was about to leave my team with nothing coming back, but frustration and disappointment of fans probably shouldn't be a major sticking point if it means an individuals quality of life would suffer.

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05-30-2012, 11:49 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
The thing is no one knows what has happened in contract talks or player interviews. Maybe they offered him $870K like Etem and said take it or leave it. Maybe he had a recent interview with management and BB and they had significant differences in hockey philosophy, maybe he's just a dick - the thing is no one knows the facts behind his choices so it's not really fair to make a character judgement about somebody based on partial information and speculation. I understand the frustration, I would be pretty disappointed too if one of my teams top prospects was about to leave my team with nothing coming back, but frustration and disappointment of fans probably shouldn't be a major sticking point if it means an individuals quality of life would suffer.
Exactly. This reminds me of Rangers fans going nuts over Chris Kreider's decision to go back to college last year, which somehow spurned a bunch of speculation that he was going to hold out because he grew up a Bruins fan and would only play for them! We all saw this spring how that turned out. Nobody knows what happened behind the scenes or what Schultz's motives are. This is a huge LIFE decision, it's not just a hockey decision. He has every right to make his decision the way he sees fit. He's not breaking any rules. Let him be....with the Rangers, preferably

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Old
05-31-2012, 12:22 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
With Lidstrom possibly retiring that makes two openings at least on the Detroit blue line. Former badger Brendan Smith and another UFA may take those spots but Schultz could have a shot at the everyday roster in Detroit now. I don't see why he would shun the Ducks then sign with Calgary. I think he's going to play in the States anyways. NYC, Detroit, Philly are my choices.
He is from BC's Okanagan valley. That explains Vancouver. Calgary is a nice, liveable city close-by with a dearth of prospects. They might make a hard push. San Jose is a really nice city with a good team and a dearth of prospects. Granted, Detroit makes some sense, but he will favor western locations over eastern ones, being from BC. Dallas is a western location with a relatively weak group of prospects and and BC owner looking to improve.

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05-31-2012, 12:23 AM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
The thing is no one knows what has happened in contract talks or player interviews. Maybe they offered him $870K like Etem and said take it or leave it. Maybe he had a recent interview with management and BB and they had significant differences in hockey philosophy, maybe he's just a dick - the thing is no one knows the facts behind his choices so it's not really fair to make a character judgement about somebody based on partial information and speculation. I understand the frustration, I would be pretty disappointed too if one of my teams top prospects was about to leave my team with nothing coming back, but frustration and disappointment of fans probably shouldn't be a major sticking point if it means an individuals quality of life would suffer.
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Exactly. This reminds me of Rangers fans going nuts over Chris Kreider's decision to go back to college last year, which somehow spurned a bunch of speculation that he was going to hold out because he grew up a Bruins fan and would only play for them! We all saw this spring how that turned out. Nobody knows what happened behind the scenes or what Schultz's motives are. This is a huge LIFE decision, it's not just a hockey decision. He has every right to make his decision the way he sees fit. He's not breaking any rules. Let him be....with the Rangers, preferably
I think you guys are missing the point that some Ducks fans have made, and it's not necessarily the fact that he doesn't want to be in Anaheim(although we're not happy about it), but rather the fact that he didn't tell them that and thus we're losing him for nothing. Obviously we don't know what went on, but between the Ducks being ready to put him in the lineup when Wisconsin's season ended, the tampering talk and the fact that neither camp has said a word about it, it is very safe to assume he indeed didn't tell them anything of that ilk, and most likely instead told them he would sign.

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05-31-2012, 01:21 AM
  #367
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NFITO,

I never said I think he's lying. I get the impression that you think it's ok for him to not inform the ducks if he's changed his mind, which IMO is wrong, and if he told them he plans to play for them and never tells them otherwise, then I believe that is a lie.

I'd like your opinion on something because I believe this comparison is a good one:

A senior is interning at a business. He's been there for the past 2 years. 7 months before classes end, he is offered a salary position with the company when he finishes school. The student tells the company he will accept the offer and start right away. About two months before graduation the student receives an offer that has better pay, better hours, and is closer to home. He knows he's given his word to his current company but he knows that this is just a much better situation and he needs to take it so he accepts that offer and will start when school finishes. The student knows that his current company has already started planning for his upcoming position and has even made personell moves that are reactionary to his new employment.

My question to you is: does he owe the company the responsibility of at least telling his current internship that he changed his mind about his upcoming position with them to pursue a better job? Or is it fair to just not show up when his new job starts?

I for one believe the student (Schultz) owes the company at least his honesty, and IMO the right thing to do is tell them immediately because they are going to have to make adjustments for his "change of heart". Yes, they are probably going to be upset about him changing his mind, and it's not a conversation someone wants to have, but can you honestly say that it's ok to just not show up one day? Isn't changing your mind bad enough? It may not be for the student personally, but wouldn't it be the right thing to do in at least giving them warning?

I dont know. If you think it's ok that's your opinion, but I am perplexed on how someone could think like that. I believe that Schultz should do what he wants because his first contract will affect him personally in a large way, however I don't think your employer, or in this case, drafting team, should be completely ignored or disrespected. I believe he needs to be upfront with the team at least. Ignoring the situation is like spitting in their face IMO.
the key question here then is: When did Schultz change his mind?

Did he know months ago he wasn't going to sign with the Ducks and didn't say a thing waiting for FA? Or months ago he planned on signing with the Ducks and didn't want to think about this further until after his NCAA season and his decision of whether to return next season or not?

If it's the former, I can understand the frustration. Yes, Schultz should have said something to the Ducks months ago if he decided months ago he was not going to sign there. But if it's the latter, I can understand Schultz's position - not wanting to think about his NHL situation until after he's made his decision on his NCAA future.

Basically if Schultz knew a while back he was never going to sign with the Ducks, while telling them that he was going to sign, I can completely understand the frustration in that situation. But is this case? When did he decide he wasn't going to sign with the Ducks? While he was telling them he planned on signing? Or after he finished his NCAA career?

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Old
05-31-2012, 05:31 AM
  #368
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Yeah alot of the "fans" here trashing duck fans need to stop being so self absorbed and viewing it soley from the viewpoint of their favorite team possible stealing Schultz.

We're pissed about him publicly and privately lying to the organization about his intentions.

If you don't understand that, you need to take a reading comprehension class, the loophole is what it is, but don't lie to an organization that went on a limb to pick you as high as they did(alot of people went "WHO" when he was taken) and lie to Scott Niedermayers face who you seemingly idolized, that's just plain garbage.


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Old
05-31-2012, 08:27 AM
  #369
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I just believe that you should inform your current employer ASAP regardless of reason. You owe them that in the least IMO. It's bad enough that you're going to change your mind on them, so even if the timing is bad, the right thing to do is still inform them ASAP regardless of what's going on in your own personal life. I also believe that one shouldn't be waiting until last minute to make a decision like this. I realize things can happen that may result in a change of mind last minute, but this does not appear to be the case at all. I haven't read about any ground breaking happenings, and IMO he should have been decided months ago. He's handling this in a terrible way IMO. Absolutely no reason to just not say anything and yes he's slapping his drafting team in the face. Even if he for some reason still signed here (ya I know, not happening), I'd still say he handled this whole situation poorly.

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05-31-2012, 07:21 PM
  #370
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I am curious. Lets assume Schultz is undecided between Edmonton, Vancouver and Toronto.

Would the Oiler fans trade the 1st overall for 6th overall and rights to Schultz?

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05-31-2012, 08:25 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Senshi View Post
I am curious. Lets assume Schultz is undecided between Edmonton, Vancouver and Toronto.

Would the Oiler fans trade the 1st overall for 6th overall and rights to Schultz?
As a non-Oilers fan, I would say that the cost of moving up from 6th to 1st overall is astronomically more than 6 days of Schultz' negotiating rights.

EDIT: Actually, since Schultz becomes a UFA on June 25th and just can't sign the deal until July 1st, it'd be more like 24 hours of Schultz' negotiating rights, assuming this deal went down at the draft.

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05-31-2012, 11:19 PM
  #372
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to detroit nick goes

to detroit
-rights to schultz

to anaheim
-rights to stuart

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06-01-2012, 12:16 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Senshi View Post
I am curious. Lets assume Schultz is undecided between Edmonton, Vancouver and Toronto.

Would the Oiler fans trade the 1st overall for 6th overall and rights to Schultz?
No, the Ducks would have to add. Think Holland and possibly next year's Ducks 1st if Schultz walks.

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06-01-2012, 12:19 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
to detroit nick goes

to detroit
-rights to schultz

to anaheim
-rights to stuart
Everyone knows that Stuart wants to go to California so the Ducks have a 1 in 3 chance of better of landing him as an UFA.

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06-01-2012, 01:26 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
to detroit nick goes

to detroit
-rights to schultz

to anaheim
-rights to stuart
I doubt the Ducks would have any interest in trading for the rights to a UFA that they can't afford anyway. Their budget just doesn't allow them to add another D-man that will make what Stuart's likely to ask for. Aside from that, I doubt they'd be looking to help out Detroit unless they were getting back something of use to them, such as a prospect or pick. Maybe they end up getting neither, but if that's the case, then they'll probably look to trade him to an Eastern team instead or just continue 'hoping' they can sign him by some small miracle.

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