HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Notices

2012 Draft Discussion - Part II

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-05-2012, 02:32 PM
  #101
km204
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
You know, the more you read and watch reports on the draft eligible players, the more you want more than one of them. With that in mind, completely hypothetically and with no chance of this actually happening, what if...

The Jets trade....

1. Buff + 2013 4th rd pick... to Minny for 2012 1st rd pick (#7) + Clutterbuck + a 2013 2nd rd pick
2. Enstrom + 2013 3rd rd pick... to Philly for 2012 1st rd pick (#20) + Simmonds
3. Their 2012 1st rd pick (#9) + 2012 2nd rd pick (#38) + 2012 6th rd pick ... to Buffalo for 2 - 2012 1st rd picks (#12 & #21)

So...

Jets lose Buff and Enstrom off their roster, but gain Clutterbuck and Simmonds.

They also pick:

#7 - Faksa (C)
#12 - Ceci (D)
#20 - Koekkoek (D)
#21 - Sissons (C/W)

Would likely mean they would need to sign a Dman (or two) in FA, but fills the prospect cupboard with 1st round guys (who are most likely to actually make the NHL).

2012/13 Line-up:

Ladd/Little/Wheeler
Kane/Burmi (or Antro)/Simmonds
Glass*/Slater* (or Burmi)/Clutterbuck
Machacek/Cormier/Thorbs

Hainsey/Bogo
Clitsome/FA
Stuart/Postma
Kulda

* assumes they are re-signed.


In future (couple of yrs)...

Kane/Scheifele/Wheeler
Burmi/Faksa/Simmonds
Ladd/Little/Sissons
Klingberg/Cormier/Clutterbuck

Koekkoek/Bogo
Clitsome (or Kulda)/Ceci
Stuart/Postma
Go back to playing NHL 12.......Our D is atrocious in your scenario and you are severely overrating Clitsome. I don't see him as any more than a 6 or a 7 on a good team.

km204 is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 02:33 PM
  #102
bigplay41
BIG MEECH
 
bigplay41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,289
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to bigplay41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
You know, the more you read and watch reports on the draft eligible players, the more you want more than one of them. With that in mind, completely hypothetically and with no chance of this actually happening, what if...

The Jets trade....

1. Buff + 2013 4th rd pick... to Minny for 2012 1st rd pick (#7) + Clutterbuck + a 2013 2nd rd pick
2. Enstrom + 2013 3rd rd pick... to Philly for 2012 1st rd pick (#20) + Simmonds
3. Their 2012 1st rd pick (#9) + 2012 2nd rd pick (#38) + 2012 6th rd pick ... to Buffalo for 2 - 2012 1st rd picks (#12 & #21)

So...

Jets lose Buff and Enstrom off their roster, but gain Clutterbuck and Simmonds.

They also pick:

#7 - Faksa (C)
#12 - Ceci (D)
#20 - Koekkoek (D)
#21 - Sissons (C/W)

Would likely mean they would need to sign a Dman (or two) in FA, but fills the prospect cupboard with 1st round guys (who are most likely to actually make the NHL).

2012/13 Line-up:

Ladd/Little/Wheeler
Kane/Burmi (or Antro)/Simmonds
Glass*/Slater* (or Burmi)/Clutterbuck
Machacek/Cormier/Thorbs

Hainsey/Bogo
Clitsome/FA
Stuart/Postma
Kulda

* assumes they are re-signed.


In future (couple of yrs)...

Kane/Scheifele/Wheeler
Burmi/Faksa/Simmonds
Ladd/Little/Sissons
Klingberg/Cormier/Clutterbuck

Koekkoek/Bogo
Clitsome (or Kulda)/Ceci
Stuart/Postma
Has a team ever had four 1st round picks? haha

bigplay41 is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #103
Gm0ney
Registered User
 
Gm0ney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,532
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetNation View Post
Has a team ever had four 1st round picks? haha
Colorado had 4 in the first round in 1998:

#12 - Alex Tanguay
#17 - Martin Skoula
#19 - Robyn Regehr
#20 - Scott Parker

They also had #28 (Ramzi Abid) - which was the 1st pick in the 2nd round back in 98, but would've been a first rounder today. And they had the 38th and 53rd picks as well (Phillipe Sauve and Steve Moore).

Tanguay had a good career with the Avalanche. Skoula was meh...played 5 seasons there. Regehr was traded (with a few other players) to Calgary (for Theoren Fleury) before he played a game with the Avalanche. Parker, Abid, Sauve and Moore were busts.

Nothing's guaranteed in the draft...

Gm0ney is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 03:14 PM
  #104
Grind
Stomacheache AllStar
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 3,963
vCash: 500
sorry bob i'm very against this.

in all likely hood, statisicaly, one of this first round picks will fail completely.

And theres a very good chance at lease one more will end up being a dissapointment.

I"m so very much against trading both buff and enstrom for first round picks in a weak draft that i would likely revert to paying a large amount of attention to the flyers again while we wait for these picks to season.

I don't think you see teams get this many "higher" first round picks ever because the assets they have to give up equate to removing 3+ useful/important pieces for complete gambles.

There's no way i would move 2+ key contributors for something like a 40% chance of a downgrade, 20% chance of nothing (bust pick), a 20% chance of "wash", and a 20% chance of genuine improvement. it just doesn't make any sense.

there is less then a 50% chance that even a d we draft in the top 10 is going to be an improvement on enstrom/buff.


I appreciate your creativity and get the "allure" but please never do i ever want to see this happen....Ever.


In short...
Quote:
Gm0ney's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 219
vCash: 500

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetNation View Post
Has a team ever had four 1st round picks? haha
Colorado had 4 in the first round in 1998:

#12 - Alex Tanguay
#17 - Martin Skoula
#19 - Robyn Regehr
#20 - Scott Parker

They also had #28 (Ramzi Abid) - which was the 1st pick in the 2nd round back in 98, but would've been a first rounder today. And they had the 38th and 53rd picks as well (Phillipe Sauve and Steve Moore).

Tanguay had a good career with the Avalanche. Skoula was meh...played 5 seasons there. Regehr was traded (with a few other players) to Calgary (for Theoren Fleury) before he played a game with the Avalanche. Parker, Abid, Sauve and Moore were busts.

Nothing's guaranteed in the draft...
this

Grind is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #105
BigTuna49
RIP KevFist
 
BigTuna49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ATL
Country: Egypt
Posts: 23,039
vCash: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Koekkoek/Bogo
Clitsome (or Kulda)/Ceci
Stuart/Postma
.....boy, you really don't want to be able to play defense do you? That's awful...

BigTuna49 is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 04:46 PM
  #106
Aerial
Registered User
 
Aerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
You know, the more you read and watch reports on the draft eligible players, the more you want more than one of them.
I know the feeling Bob, but with regards to your proposal, remember that:

1) Statistically, chances are high that at least one or two of those four prospects you suggest won't work out as a regular NHLer. Right now it's easy to feel pretty high on prospects, but dumping all sorts of proven assets all at once for a pile of kids that may very well not work out, is not a great move.

2) Even if it was, don't forget... this isn't generally considered a very deep draft, so it doesn't seem a good year to blow a ton of assets gambling on kids. There will be a fresh new crop of kids next year and we'll get all excited about them again. If we were talking about going all-in on MacKinnon next year, sure. But a bunch of mid-late first rounders isn't what the Jets need.

What you're feeling right now with wanting to collect a few draftees is just the "new shiny toy" feeling. Look ahead a little and remember, when you give into that feeling you usually end up with buyer's remorse.

Aerial is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 05:13 PM
  #107
PostmanPat1919
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
You know, the more you read and watch reports on the draft eligible players, the more you want more than one of them. With that in mind, completely hypothetically and with no chance of this actually happening, what if...

The Jets trade....

1. Buff + 2013 4th rd pick... to Minny for 2012 1st rd pick (#7) + Clutterbuck + a 2013 2nd rd pick
2. Enstrom + 2013 3rd rd pick... to Philly for 2012 1st rd pick (#20) + Simmonds
3. Their 2012 1st rd pick (#9) + 2012 2nd rd pick (#38) + 2012 6th rd pick ... to Buffalo for 2 - 2012 1st rd picks (#12 & #21)

So...

Jets lose Buff and Enstrom off their roster, but gain Clutterbuck and Simmonds.

They also pick:

#7 - Faksa (C)
#12 - Ceci (D)
#20 - Koekkoek (D)
#21 - Sissons (C/W)

Would likely mean they would need to sign a Dman (or two) in FA, but fills the prospect cupboard with 1st round guys (who are most likely to actually make the NHL).

2012/13 Line-up:

Ladd/Little/Wheeler
Kane/Burmi (or Antro)/Simmonds
Glass*/Slater* (or Burmi)/Clutterbuck
Machacek/Cormier/Thorbs

Hainsey/Bogo
Clitsome/FA
Stuart/Postma
Kulda

* assumes they are re-signed.


In future (couple of yrs)...

Kane/Scheifele/Wheeler
Burmi/Faksa/Simmonds
Ladd/Little/Sissons
Klingberg/Cormier/Clutterbuck

Koekkoek/Bogo
Clitsome (or Kulda)/Ceci
Stuart/Postma
This would essentially obliterate any chances of Winnipeg making the playoffs for the next 2 or so years at the very least. I don't really see the purpose of any of it.

PostmanPat1919 is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 05:53 PM
  #108
WJG
Running and Rioting
 
WJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 12,724
vCash: 500
New article on the Jets website about Tanner Pearson.

Quote:
"The joke around our room is that we're the Winnipeg Colts," chuckled Pearson last Friday from the NHL Scouting Combine in Toronto. “I know lots of guys there, with Scheif (Scheifele) and (Ivan) Telegin- ‘the Big Russian Bull’ we call him.
http://jets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=633920

WJG is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 07:28 PM
  #109
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmanPat1919 View Post
This would essentially obliterate any chances of Winnipeg making the playoffs for the next 2 or so years at the very least. I don't really see the purpose of any of it.
None, really.

It was very much tongue-in-check - putting too many eggs in the draft basket doesn't work - and would take years to materialize, if at all.

Though, Colorado made some good picks in 1998, and flipped them as assets for what they actually needed.

Bob E is online now  
Old
06-05-2012, 08:39 PM
  #110
DuckJet
#KESBAE
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 36,128
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
You know, the more you read and watch reports on the draft eligible players, the more you want more than one of them. With that in mind, completely hypothetically and with no chance of this actually happening, what if...

The Jets trade....

1. Buff + 2013 4th rd pick... to Minny for 2012 1st rd pick (#7) + Clutterbuck + a 2013 2nd rd pick
2. Enstrom + 2013 3rd rd pick... to Philly for 2012 1st rd pick (#20) + Simmonds
3. Their 2012 1st rd pick (#9) + 2012 2nd rd pick (#38) + 2012 6th rd pick ... to Buffalo for 2 - 2012 1st rd picks (#12 & #21)

So...

Jets lose Buff and Enstrom off their roster, but gain Clutterbuck and Simmonds.

They also pick:

#7 - Faksa (C)
#12 - Ceci (D)
#20 - Koekkoek (D)
#21 - Sissons (C/W)

Would likely mean they would need to sign a Dman (or two) in FA, but fills the prospect cupboard with 1st round guys (who are most likely to actually make the NHL).

2012/13 Line-up:

Ladd/Little/Wheeler
Kane/Burmi (or Antro)/Simmonds
Glass*/Slater* (or Burmi)/Clutterbuck
Machacek/Cormier/Thorbs

Hainsey/Bogo
Clitsome/FA
Stuart/Postma
Kulda

* assumes they are re-signed.


In future (couple of yrs)...

Kane/Scheifele/Wheeler
Burmi/Faksa/Simmonds
Ladd/Little/Sissons
Klingberg/Cormier/Clutterbuck

Koekkoek/Bogo
Clitsome (or Kulda)/Ceci
Stuart/Postma
Awful. Jets benefit more from making no moves.

DuckJet is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 08:52 PM
  #111
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
One month til we have a general idea of what next year's team will look like. It's safe to say, whether we draft Reinhart, Trouba, Dumba, or any of the forwards, we won't be getting a roster player out of this draft. Just hope we don't pass over a great player like we did last year...

Lux Aurumque* is offline  
Old
06-05-2012, 09:56 PM
  #112
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Awful. Jets benefit more from making no moves.
Obviously they would add to this - especially on d - with FA, etc. Clitsome would never be a 2nd pairing dman, in any situation (except if there were multiple injuries). I think if they made no moves, they wouldn't be much better than they are now. To be a solid contender they need to add talent.

So, if the Jets added Jackman and a RH dman in FA - to, say, 3 yr deals - then the multiple assets added in the draft may turn out to be very good players, in due time. But you never know.

This was just a fun stab at trying to re-stock the prospect cupboard quickly with 1st rd prospects, and with a few FA signings (which I did suggest initially), it may actually benefit the team down the road far more than having Buff and Enstrom today.

Bob E is online now  
Old
06-05-2012, 10:08 PM
  #113
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
And before everyone gets excited and say, you can't make trades at the draft, then expect to sign FA players to fill spots - because you don't know who's available come July 1st... Let's assume someone (or 2) of quality will be there and will be signed.

The draft is a crap shoot. But you get past the 1st round, & the odds of getting a solid NHL player drop dramatically. Though that many picks in one draft doesn't make sense either - likely need to spread it out a bit.

Bob E is online now  
Old
06-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #114
ps241
Drunken rant!
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,391
vCash: 50
The more I look at the UFA's the more I think we won't be making a splash that way this year. I think there will be so many teams chasing the "Jackman's" of the class that the pricing won't make sense. How many teams need a top 4 stay at home physical defensman?? My guess is ALLOT more teams than just the Jets?

I am thinking trades but can't tell which way that is going to break without knowing who fits into our teams plans and who doesn't.

I completely expect churn I am just not sure about the timing since it seems harder and harder to get deals done in the NHL these days

ps241 is online now  
Old
06-05-2012, 11:48 PM
  #115
drumzan
#WpgJets #SJSharks
 
drumzan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Personally, not a 'big' TT fan. I'd rather the Jets drafted a more physical player with offensive upside.
I respect that, his size scares me a little. But he's a very high skilled player and I'd have a hard time passing on him. Jets could definitely use some more wingers in their system.

drumzan is online now  
Old
06-06-2012, 12:04 AM
  #116
ps241
Drunken rant!
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,391
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzan View Post
I respect that, his size scares me a little. But he's a very high skilled player and I'd have a hard time passing on him. Jets could definitely use some more wingers in their system.
Yea I would prefer a bigger player as well but skill is skill.......how bright would Edmonton's future be right now if they had passed on Eberle Because he was 5'10" and 175 pounds at the draft? on balance I would prefer to roll the dice with a bigger player but skill doesn't grow on trees either.

ps241 is online now  
Old
06-06-2012, 09:03 AM
  #117
Sweech
COYS!
 
Sweech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,702
vCash: 50
With high picks in the first round I'd always take the highest skilled player. Size has much less weight the higher the pick is IMO.

The other thing about TT is how young he is. He's just a few days off of being in next years class, so he should definitely grow. He doesn't have a big frame to begin with, but even at 5'11" his skill offsets most of the hindrances.

Sweech is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 09:44 AM
  #118
Wpgpage
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 817
vCash: 500
Thoughts on Ludvig Bystrom in the 2nd? Might need to trade up into the 34ish range to snag him but I think that might be a good move given his talent level.

Wpgpage is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 10:57 AM
  #119
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
I'd much rather have Henrik Samuelsson. He's a Lucic type player who, if he worked on his skating, could be just as good as Lucic.

Lux Aurumque* is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 11:00 AM
  #120
WJG
Running and Rioting
 
WJG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Ireland
Posts: 12,724
vCash: 500
I don't know too much about Bystrom, but I remember seeing him go in the 1st round of some mock drafts.

There are going to be a lot of good players available early in the second round - Pearson, Sutter, Samuelsson, Thrower, Zharkov, Subban, etc.

WJG is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 11:19 AM
  #121
untouchable21
You've been TROUBA'D
 
untouchable21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Outer Limits.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
Thoughts on Ludvig Bystrom in the 2nd? Might need to trade up into the 34ish range to snag him but I think that might be a good move given his talent level.
I really like Bystrom. He has very good IQ and can play a physical game to go along with his evident skills. I would approve of such a pick in the 2nd round. Other defenseman I like in that range are Severson, Thrower and Sjkei.

My thoughts are if a forward like Faksa, Teravainen or Girgenson is taken at #9 then we're likely to see a defenseman taken at #38/39. Likewise if we take a defenseman like Trouba, Reinhart, Ceci or Lindholm at #9 then our 2nd rounder has a good chance at being a forward.

If that 2nd ends up being a forward, two guys I really love are Jarrod Maidens and Lukas Sutter. Seems like they'd be a perfect fit for the type of hard nosed team the JETS are trying to build. I'd definitely come away pleased with that.


Last edited by untouchable21: 06-06-2012 at 11:46 AM.
untouchable21 is online now  
Old
06-06-2012, 11:55 AM
  #122
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,996
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJG View Post
I don't know too much about Bystrom, but I remember seeing him go in the 1st round of some mock drafts.

There are going to be a lot of good players available early in the second round - Pearson, Sutter, Samuelsson, Thrower, Zharkov, Subban, etc.
I'm pretty much all but sold on Faksa (unless there are some crazy fallers)...
But there are so many I'd approve of for our second round.

garret9 is offline  
Old
06-06-2012, 01:32 PM
  #123
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
With high picks in the first round I'd always take the highest skilled player. Size has much less weight the higher the pick is IMO.

The other thing about TT is how young he is. He's just a few days off of being in next years class, so he should definitely grow. He doesn't have a big frame to begin with, but even at 5'11" his skill offsets most of the hindrances.
The video I've seen of him, he's flashy, no doubt. You got to like his skill, but I haven't seen him battle (or win battles) for pucks or play defensively. He's small (slight), but nifty. Playing against men as a 17 year old he will lose battles, understood, but some are writing Scheifele off as 'too weak' and he's bigger and stronger than TT.

Playing on the big ice suits TT well. Lots of room to maneuver. Not sure how he would like his face up against the glass every shift in the NHL. Not saying his game can't translate or he won't change, I'm not sure the Jets would pick him if there was a more known commodity (CHL prospect) there when they pick.

If he's solely a perimeter player, we'll be complaining about him on these boards for yrs.

Bob E is online now  
Old
06-06-2012, 02:11 PM
  #124
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
Interesting.

On the Jets website, they have features on Galchenyuk, Pearson and Sissons - so far.

It's early, but could they be tipping their hand a bit - hoping for one is available in first rd, and another in 2nd rd?

Bob E is online now  
Old
06-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #125
Sweech
COYS!
 
Sweech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,702
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Interesting.

On the Jets website, they have features on Galchenyuk, Pearson and Sissons - so far.

It's early, but could they be tipping their hand a bit - hoping for one is available in first rd, and another in 2nd rd?
The website articles are written by people that don't exactly have an inside track.

They're close to the team, but it only means they can guess better than the rest of us.

Sweech is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.