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Dumba vs Murray...

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Old
05-30-2012, 04:29 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Dumba is much better than Murray simply because he actually has offense. Murray is the type of player you take with 20th overall, not with a top 5 pick.
I have two words for you: karl alzner.

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05-30-2012, 04:46 PM
  #27
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Matt Dumba has that hockey sense where he'll make bonehead plays and lead his fan base to call him Matt Dumbass.

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05-30-2012, 05:41 PM
  #28
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Matt Dumba has that hockey sense where he'll make bonehead plays and lead his fan base to call him Matt Dumbass.

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Old
05-30-2012, 11:35 PM
  #29
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Dumba really reminds me of Phaneuf. Has a habit of taking stupid penalties. Has a habit of getting out of position to do something flashy, to make a big hit.

Murray reminds me of something between Bouwmeester and... i'm not sure. Alzner? Something safer with a slightly lower offensive ceiling, but someone you can always trust in any situation.

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05-31-2012, 04:35 AM
  #30
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For what its worth, Dumba has much better PPG clip in the WHL than Phaneuf had in his draft year (30 pts. in 71 games)

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05-31-2012, 07:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by John Druce View Post
For what its worth, Dumba has much better PPG clip in the WHL than Phaneuf had in his draft year (30 pts. in 71 games)
Dumba's numbers are impressive considering it's his 2nd season in the whl and his late birthday...

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05-31-2012, 12:34 PM
  #32
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Murray.

It's funny how people continually say that Murray is not an offensive defenceman. He might not be on a very good WJ team or a WC team against 25-30 year olds, but the guy is an offensive defenceman who will QB an NHL PP in a couple of years.

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05-31-2012, 01:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Murray.

It's funny how people continually say that Murray is not an offensive defenceman. He might not be on a very good WJ team or a WC team against 25-30 year olds, but the guy is an offensive defenceman who will QB an NHL PP in a couple of years.

THN Draft Preview certainly didn't paint him as an offensive defensemen.

His WHL stats don't exactly scream offensive defensemen either.

But there is no subsitute for watching him play live, and often, which I haven't in either case.

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05-31-2012, 01:15 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Murray.

It's funny how people continually say that Murray is not an offensive defenceman. He might not be on a very good WJ team or a WC team against 25-30 year olds, but the guy is an offensive defenceman who will QB an NHL PP in a couple of years.
I'm not sure he'll QB it, but he'll definitely play on it...

He is a good offensive player, but I see a limited upside...Dumba's max potential is clearly higher at the offensive end, but I think Murray is a much better 'hockey player'.

I take Murray 10/10...Murray is clearly the best WHL defensman available this year.

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05-31-2012, 01:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
THN Draft Preview certainly didn't paint him as an offensive defensemen.

His WHL stats don't exactly scream offensive defensemen either.

But there is no subsitute for watching him play live, and often, which I haven't in either case.
Not sure I'd necessarily agree with the bolded. 46 points in his second season shows an offensive side to his game. Usually, players who creep close to 50 points are good offensively. He followed it up with 31 points in 46 games, which prorates to 47 points over a full season, again close to a 50 point season.

In comparison, the most points Shea Weber ever recorded in junior was 41 points in 55 games, and Dion Phaneuf's highest point total when he was the same age as Murray was 43 points. Both those guys have gone on to be PP QBs at the NHL level.

Keep in mind I'm referring to the bolded line only, about Murray's stats not suggesting offensive defenseman. I'm in no way comparing Murray's play style or his potential to that of Weber or Phaneuf.

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05-31-2012, 01:34 PM
  #36
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Murray seems like a Matt Carle. He's no superstar

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05-31-2012, 01:41 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Not sure I'd necessarily agree with the bolded. 46 points in his second season shows an offensive side to his game. Usually, players who creep close to 50 points are good offensively. He followed it up with 31 points in 46 games, which prorates to 47 points over a full season, again close to a 50 point season.

In comparison, the most points Shea Weber ever recorded in junior was 41 points in 55 games, and Dion Phaneuf's highest point total when he was the same age as Murray was 43 points. Both those guys have gone on to be PP QBs at the NHL level.

Keep in mind I'm referring to the bolded line only, about Murray's stats not suggesting offensive defenseman. I'm in no way comparing Murray's play style or his potential to that of Weber or Phaneuf.

His 2nd whl season with 46 points was nice, but I find it a little concerning that he didn't build on that in his 3rd season...it makes me wonder what his ceiling is. He is one of the older draft eligibles...but like I said stats don't tell the whole story, so I'm lookin for opinions from those who know his game. Thanks for your input.

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05-31-2012, 01:55 PM
  #38
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dumba

we have the same birthday but im a year older

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05-31-2012, 02:04 PM
  #39
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Murray brings a lot of positives to the table. Great poise, rarely gets rattled. Excellent positional defender, very good skater going forwards and backwards, just really tough to beat in his own zone. Not a dominant take-over player offensively, but he has nice tools, handles the puck well, passes well, has a hard shot, I can see him being a 40 point player in the NHL in his prime, and one who produces without taking risks. His absolute upside is probably to become a Ryan Suter type of player.

Dumba seems a bit quicker, a bit more explosive, more aggressive offensively, and a bigger hitter. However, he also takes a lot more risks, overhandles the puck leading to turnovers, and is less solid/stable in his own end than Murray. As others have noted, he plays sort of like PK Subban, or like a smaller Phaneuf. I do have some questions about whether he'll be able to translate his physical game to the NHL, because he's not as big as your typical big hitting NHL dman, but he'll probably be OK.

I prefer Murray based on what I've seen from both, but I think they're both going to be pretty good. IMO Murray will likely play in the NHL next year, while Dumba likely needs a few more years to polish his game.

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05-31-2012, 02:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Murray's upside is much higher than Dumba's, IMO. I think he's a lock to be a shutdown guy at the next level, the only question mark is his offense. If he puts up 40-50 points per season, combined with the way he plays defense, I just don't see Dumba coming close to that level. Even if he hits his ceiling.

Murray is considered safe because even if his offensive game doesn't pan out he will still most likely be the type of player Ryan McDonagh is right now. But if his offense does takes off at the NHL level, I see him being a top-5 NHL defenseman... IMO Dumba nor any other defenseman in this draft's potential comes anywhere near that.
Based on what?

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05-31-2012, 02:10 PM
  #41
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Always take the smarter player. Murray by quite a bit.

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05-31-2012, 02:11 PM
  #42
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Ryan Murray The Next Ones: NHL 2012 Draft Prospect Profile
http://thehockeywriters.com/ryan-mur...spect-profile/

Mathew Dumba The Next Ones: NHL 2012 Draft Prospect Profile
http://thehockeywriters.com/mathew-d...spect-profile/

Fell free to comment and compare both analyses!

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Old
05-31-2012, 02:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Not sure I'd necessarily agree with the bolded. 46 points in his second season shows an offensive side to his game. Usually, players who creep close to 50 points are good offensively. He followed it up with 31 points in 46 games, which prorates to 47 points over a full season, again close to a 50 point season.

In comparison, the most points Shea Weber ever recorded in junior was 41 points in 55 games, and Dion Phaneuf's highest point total when he was the same age as Murray was 43 points. Both those guys have gone on to be PP QBs at the NHL level.


Keep in mind I'm referring to the bolded line only, about Murray's stats not suggesting offensive defenseman. I'm in no way comparing Murray's play style or his potential to that of Weber or Phaneuf.
All of this.

And that only relates to what his stats show.

Watch the kid play against people his own age group, he's an offensive defenceman.

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05-31-2012, 02:13 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Murray.

It's funny how people continually say that Murray is not an offensive defenceman. He might not be on a very good WJ team or a WC team against 25-30 year olds, but the guy is an offensive defenceman who will QB an NHL PP in a couple of years.
That's a pretty bold prediction.

Im not a big fan at all.

If I had the choice between the two its Dumba all day long.

I think he is 10mths younger and a whole development year behind Murray.

Dumba has his flaws, but they are heavily exaggerated in this thread. He is the type of player that can take over and dominate games, both offensively and defensively with his physicality.

You cant say that about Murray.

Like some have said, Dumba is the bold pick, Murray is the safe pick.

I would take Reinhart before Murray as well.

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05-31-2012, 02:33 PM
  #45
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Ryan Murray is going to be at very least a top pairing D in the NHL. I could easily see him as a number one guy. His offensive game is sooooooo underrated around here. He is a good two way defenseman and is very good offensively and has the tools to be great offensively (shot, passing, smarts, skating). His stats don't jump out at you because just look at the team he was on. He was 7th in team scoring while playing 24 less games than their leading scorer which only had 57 points! That team itself was so brutal offensively. He also lead his team in scoring in the playoffs (3 goals 2 assists 5 points in 4 games played). He's a phenomenal player. If he played on St Johns in the Q or Niagara in the O he probably would have been atleast a PPG defenseman.

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Old
05-31-2012, 03:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That's a pretty bold prediction.

Im not a big fan at all.

If I had the choice between the two its Dumba all day long.

I think he is 10mths younger and a whole development year behind Murray.

Dumba has his flaws, but they are heavily exaggerated in this thread. He is the type of player that can take over and dominate games, both offensively and defensively with his physicality.

You cant say that about Murray.

Like some have said, Dumba is the bold pick, Murray is the safe pick.

I would take Reinhart before Murray as well.
Not in my opinion. Especially if he ends up in a place like Columbus or Edmonton. It's not that far fetched to think he'll be QBing a 1st or 2nd NHL PP within 2 full seasons.

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05-31-2012, 05:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That's a pretty bold prediction.

Im not a big fan at all.

If I had the choice between the two its Dumba all day long.

I think he is 10mths younger and a whole development year behind Murray.

Dumba has his flaws, but they are heavily exaggerated in this thread. He is the type of player that can take over and dominate games, both offensively and defensively with his physicality.

You cant say that about Murray.

Like some have said, Dumba is the bold pick, Murray is the safe pick.

I would take Reinhart before Murray as well.
Murray controls the pace of the game...Dumba not so much, he's a good prospect, but IMO he's probably #3 or #4 of WHL defensman this year.

Its a toss up for me between him and Reinhart...Murray and Rielly are the best defensman available IMO.

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05-31-2012, 08:09 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Murray controls the pace of the game...Dumba not so much, he's a good prospect, but IMO he's probably #3 or #4 of WHL defensman this year.

Its a toss up for me between him and Reinhart...Murray and Rielly are the best defensman available IMO.
Not in the games Ive seen. Most of the time Dumba was in on half the Rebel goals and was on the ice every second shift, pk, pp, you name it. I saw him take a five minute shift this year with my own eyes. No exaggeration.

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05-31-2012, 08:11 PM
  #49
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Not in my opinion. Especially if he ends up in a place like Columbus or Edmonton. It's not that far fetched to think he'll be QBing a 1st or 2nd NHL PP within 2 full seasons.
Columbus has JMFJ and Wiznewski.

Edmonton usually just sticks four forwards out on the pp.

He may be that in Edmonton, but would be by default.

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