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Unofficial Rumor & Proposal Thread | Need Defence: Part VI

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Old
05-31-2012, 12:09 AM
  #126
oilerfan17
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Originally Posted by jmoss45 View Post
No way Garrison signs here for $4 mil. He's too sought after. He would probably want 5+ to sign here, or 4 for a contender like Van.
If that's the case, hopefully one of Carle, Allen, Jackman, or Kuba would be. If not, there's always trade.

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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
Also, in regards to your comment regarding his teammates having nice things to say about Penner, do you honestly think they're going to besmirch the guy on tape? He's a friend and a teammate. Naturally, you only say pleasant things.
Didn't a group of Oilers meet Penner after a game against L.A. this year to give him a bottle of syrup? That kind of thing leads me to believe that they genuinely thought highly of him.

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05-31-2012, 01:07 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Chris Stewart is younger, tougher and has alot more potential. But yeah, there are some warts there
Didn't Stewart get benched in the playoffs? He gets a lot of the same criticism Penner gets regarding work ethic and unwillingness to use his size more often. I don't see why so many on here are clamoring to get Stewart when we could get Penner w/o giving up any assets.

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05-31-2012, 01:10 AM
  #128
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Or we could pass on both of them and be better off anyways.

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Old
05-31-2012, 01:15 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Moilers View Post
Didn't Stewart get benched in the playoffs? He gets a lot of the same criticism Penner gets regarding work ethic and unwillingness to use his size more often. I don't see why so many on here are clamoring to get Stewart when we could get Penner w/o giving up any assets.
he is making himself valuable again, where some GM will overpay him.

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05-31-2012, 01:31 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
he is making himself valuable again, where some GM will overpay him.
Hopefully not Tambo!

I see nothing but huge red flags for another disaster/nontransferable contract.

At this point of the game there should be zero thoughts of gambling with risky players/contracts, thank Horcoff for the wake-up call.

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05-31-2012, 08:27 AM
  #131
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Over all I have no problem with the option of bringing Penner back.

Few players are as polarizing as Penner. I was always a fan but I never had a problem acknowledging how others could be frustrated by the periods in which it looked like he did not care.

I do disagree though when people say that he was not physical. His game was built around his ability to use his size and to use his soft hands. But what he did not do very often was hit. Instead he would use his size in a much more passive way, to control the puck down low and to establish himself in front of the net. But in both cases he was very effective.

The main reason I would take another chance on Penner, is that on the current version of the Oilers Penner would not be expected to be the go to guy. Rather he will be a complementary player, who could play either wing on any line from #1-#3. That kind of versatility is very valuable and also actually quite rare.

In the past, if he was not scoring he was not doing what the team primarily needed him to do. But in fact, even when he was in the dog house he was still quite effective defensively. He was even a pretty solid pk'er. Moreover, he had some really good games playing on the third line.

I actually think he could thrive on a this team. He would be a big asset on the pp by creating space for the kids and helping out with the work down low without the need for him to be the trigger man as well.

Of course there will be times in a long season when he will look like he is on cruise. But I think we have seen that when needed he can provide things that no other player on the present version of the Oilers can.

Botton line though is that I doubt he comes back and I aslo doubt he will be on the teams list of players they will try to get in the off season.

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05-31-2012, 08:52 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Over all I have no problem with the option of bringing Penner back.

Few players are as polarizing as Penner. I was always a fan but I never had a problem acknowledging how others could be frustrated by the periods in which it looked like he did not care.

I do disagree though when people say that he was not physical. His game was built around his ability to use his size and to use his soft hands. But what he did not do very often was hit. Instead he would use his size in a much more passive way, to control the puck down low and to establish himself in front of the net. But in both cases he was very effective.

The main reason I would take another chance on Penner, is that on the current version of the Oilers Penner would not be expected to be the go to guy. Rather he will be a complementary player, who could play either wing on any line from #1-#3. That kind of versatility is very valuable and also actually quite rare.

In the past, if he was not scoring he was not doing what the team primarily needed him to do. But in fact, even when he was in the dog house he was still quite effective defensively. He was even a pretty solid pk'er. Moreover, he had some really good games playing on the third line.

I actually think he could thrive on a this team. He would be a big asset on the pp by creating space for the kids and helping out with the work down low without the need for him to be the trigger man as well.

Of course there will be times in a long season when he will look like he is on cruise. But I think we have seen that when needed he can provide things that no other player on the present version of the Oilers can.

Botton line though is that I doubt he comes back and I aslo doubt he will be on the teams list of players they will try to get in the off season.
Great post. I feel the same way.

Hemsky-RNH-Eberle
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Old
05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #133
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I'd be open to the idea of bringing back Penner, but in my mind, it's either Penner or Smyth.

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05-31-2012, 09:32 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Hope4theFuture View Post
I'd be open to the idea of bringing back Penner, but in my mind, it's either Penner or Smyth.
Well if we have to have one of them... it should be the one that accepts a 3rd line role for no more than 2.5 million per year. It seems Smyth may not be comfortable with that scenario so adios and hello pancakes.

The most likely scenario though is Pitlick/Hartikainen/MPS rotated through the lineup all season.

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05-31-2012, 09:35 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
They could get a lot of cap relief by putting Pronger on LTIR.
Or making Ilya disappear into outer space
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
If he retires, though, there goes that.
He won't retire, then he loses the money. He'll go on LTIR.

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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I'd be interested in Meszaros if he's healthy and available. Depends on the price too.

Good physical player, blocks shots, young at 26, ability to play in all situations, and can also put up 30 points a year.
Can't see him being available. Not with all the UFA's and Timmonen and Pronger's future being TBD.
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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
Why is the concept of signing Dustin Penner gaining steam again? He's had a decent playoffs, but was virtually invisbile during the regular season. Sounds familiar to how he was here barring one half of a season?

Don't let the playoffs fool you into thinking he's anything more than he is. He had 17 pts in 67 games for the Kings in the regular season. He scores an OT winner and now he's a wanted commodity? Get real.
It had steam all year. We have very little proven talent down the left side and with Hall coming off surgery we could use a proven LW. This isn't a new story on here if you've been paying attention.

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:38 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
There's no end of story. You failed to address how we try and develop Harti and MPS when we continue to sign stopgaps to fill in for younger players. Harti isn't ready for a top 6 despite being 22 this year because of the exact same viewpoint people like you have. Well, he's not experienced enough, but you want him to be experienced enough to be a top 6 player. Good luck achieving that when you're spending your time on the 3rd and 4th lines up here, playing with Horcoff and Belanger.

There's your story. You can be blind to it all you want by looking at Penner as some ideal solution to our top 6 woes.
Those guys can develop in the AHL.
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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
Everything about resigning Penner reeks of stop gap move made out of desperation and second-thoughts.

Also, in regards to your comment regarding his teammates having nice things to say about Penner, do you honestly think they're going to besmirch the guy on tape? He's a friend and a teammate. Naturally, you only say pleasant things.

His level of compete was very obvious to both the media and spectators alike. The players aren't the only ones who know how well another player performs.
What's wrong with a stop gap? Is every player we pick up suppose to be a part of our future?

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Old
05-31-2012, 11:19 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
Was his marriage breaking down already in his first season here? I just think signing Penner is a great way to get burnt again. Also, scoring isn't exactly an issue for this team either so signing him just because he's big and can score about 25 a year when he actually bothers to care? Pass.
You mean his first season where he had 26 goals? He was a plus playerfor his entire time here and consistently potted 20 or more goals. He was a decent player on the whole IMO. He got a bad rap when mac t decided to put him in the doghouse and was never really given a fair shot by him again. He stuck up for his teammates and was stapled to the bench. When Quinn was coach he scored 30 + goals and flourished. Even last year he was playing pretty good. I would take him back for pisani 06 type money.

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Old
05-31-2012, 11:29 AM
  #138
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The chances of him coming back for the kind of money being suggested in this thread is kind of laughable. He's not signing anywhere for 2.5 to 3 million. Especially if he wins a cup. I'd rather not have 3+ million wrapped up in Pancakes for 2-3 years when the money could be used elsewhere.

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05-31-2012, 11:31 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by WelcomehomeSmytty View Post
You mean his first season where he had 26 goals? He was a plus playerfor his entire time here and consistently potted 20 or more goals. He was a decent player on the whole IMO. He got a bad rap when mac t decided to put him in the doghouse and was never really given a fair shot by him again. He stuck up for his teammates and was stapled to the bench. When Quinn was coach he scored 30 + goals and flourished. Even last year he was playing pretty good. I would take him back for pisani 06 type money.
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Those guys can develop in the AHL.

What's wrong with a stop gap? Is every player we pick up suppose to be a part of our future?
Because we have players who have been developing in the junior and in OKC for close to 3 to 4 years now who deserve more of a chance than Penner. Pretty simple.


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Old
05-31-2012, 11:39 AM
  #140
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Because we have players who have been developing in the minors and in OKC for close to 3 to 4 years now who deserve more of a chance than Penner. Pretty simple.
Really who?

They need to earn the shot not be given it.

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05-31-2012, 11:42 AM
  #141
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Hartikainen and Cornet come to mind immediately. But, hey, if we want to throw money around at players like Penner, then whatever. I look forward to the inevitable thread around November talking about why we signed him in the first place.

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05-31-2012, 11:50 AM
  #142
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Hartikainen and Cornet come to mind immediately. But, hey, if we want to throw money around at players like Penner, then whatever. I look forward to the inevitable thread around November talking about why we signed him in the first place.
Both have 2 years under their belt and Cornet is no where near ready for the NHL.

What do you do when you give Hartikainen and Cornet jobs and they fail miserably? As has been the case with a lot of kids that we did this in the past?

Pouilot, Jacques, Potulny, Winchester, Thoreson, Peterson, to name some.

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05-31-2012, 11:52 AM
  #143
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Nothing about Hartikainen gives any indication that he'd fail horribly in a second or third line role, which is what people here are saying Penner would fill. We're not asking either of these two players to play on the first line or even the second line most nights.

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05-31-2012, 11:57 AM
  #144
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by DerpMorg View Post
Nothing about Hartikainen gives any indication that he'd fail horribly in a second or third line role, which is what people here are saying Penner would fill. We're not asking either of these two players to play on the first line or even the second line most nights.
Penner would play 2nd line IMO. Hartikainen worse case scenario plays 4th line and works his way up.

I still rather have the proven talent, so when Hall isn't ready or when injuries start hitting that we aren't calling up Ryan Keller and Cornet as the first callups. Let them be the 3rd or 4th callups. Rather have our 1st callup being a solid callup that can fit in like a glove.

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05-31-2012, 12:01 PM
  #145
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I'm with Joe on this one. Winning teams don't go into the season with holes in their lineup thinking "I'm sure one of the farmhands or prospects will be able to play there".

You want the prospects to force your hand in playing them, earning a spot by proving they belong when given the chance due to injuries/others being scratched not gifting them a spot then acting surprised when they flounder against NHL competition.

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Old
05-31-2012, 12:03 PM
  #146
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Can't see him being available. Not with all the UFA's and Timmonen and Pronger's future being TBD.
Not so sure. If you look at the cap situation, what would you rather have 2 more years of Meszaros @ $4Mil then he walks as UFA or 5+ years of Suter @ $7.5M + what you can get for Meszaros in a trade?

I'm not saying its going to happen, but if Philly scoops Suter, they have to move salary. Its has to be a big salary, maybe too. During/after 2014, they have to resign Giroux, Couturier, Read, Meszaros and Schenn in the same year! and that's after Hartnell and Simmonds the previous year. If Holmgren decides to be a greedy pig this summer, he has to make some moves. Who is marketable? Hartnell, JVR, Meszaros, Coburn? But it all depends on what happens to Suter. I think a lot of teams have 2 offesason game plans..... a) if we sign Suter b) if we don't sign Suter
Bottom line is Philly org didn't get it done in the playoffs, so there should be some changes.... not saying Meszaros fault, just saying there are only so many pieces that can be moved around.

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05-31-2012, 12:04 PM
  #147
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Not so sure. If you look at the cap situation, what would you rather have 2 more years of Meszaros @ $4Mil then he walks as UFA or 5+ years of Suter @ $7.5M + what you can get for Meszaros in a trade?

I'm not saying its going to happen, but if Philly scoops Suter, they have to move salary. Its has to be a big salary, maybe too. During/after 2014, they have to resign Giroux, Couturier, Read, Meszaros and Schenn in the same year! and that's after Hartnell and Simmonds the previous year. If Holmgren decides to be a greedy pig this summer, he has to make some moves. Who is marketable? Hartnell, JVR, Meszaros, Coburn? But it all depends on what happens to Suter. I think a lot of teams have 2 offesason game plans..... a) if we sign Suter b) if we don't sign Suter
Bottom line is Philly org didn't get it done in the playoffs, so there should be some changes.... not saying Meszaros fault, just saying there are only so many pieces that can be moved around.
I don't see why they can't get both. I sooner see them moving Timonen than Meszaros. I'm also not sure Ilya is there next year.

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05-31-2012, 12:11 PM
  #148
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I think Penner will get 4.5/4 years on the open market, maybe more.

You have to overpay on the UFA market to get any established player really.

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05-31-2012, 12:14 PM
  #149
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I think Penner will get 4.5/4 years on the open market, maybe more.

You have to overpay on the UFA market to get any established player really.
Does he even go to the UFA market is the question now.

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05-31-2012, 12:19 PM
  #150
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Does he even go to the UFA market is the question now.
At that price, honestly I pass. Nice player, nice guy, but we need to focus on beefing up the d-corps IMO.

I'd target one of the UFA d-men on a short term contract, with the understanding that we're going to have to overpay, but at least we'd be able to manage the contract if it's 3 years or less.

That's where I think a Bryan Allen is a fit here, but people probably won't like the price tag. You're not going to get anyone decent for cheap though. That's not how the UFA market works.

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