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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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Old
06-08-2012, 12:09 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
I didn't know we're the 80s Oilers too, man we got a team of all stars
Results speak for themselves. They were good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best team in hockey.

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Old
06-08-2012, 12:17 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Gaborik - players who are often injured don't usually get you over top

Dubinsky - Holds out of camp for more $$$ comes back and S*cks for 82g?

Anisimov- when he isn't scoring (which isn't too often) you don't notice anything about his game. He brings nothing.

MDZ - Didn't just "play some bad games because his grandmother died" play some bad games because he's not a very intelligent hockey player.

Boyle - a 20g aberration season for a 5g scorer, who is built like the Hulk and plays the game like bruce banner

Stepan - skilled but can't skate, doesn't show up. small and not too strong. But he's our future #1 C

Boy do we overvalue our players here.

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06-08-2012, 12:23 PM
  #453
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You're completely discounting a) AA's defensive abilities, which are worlds better than Dubi's and b) the 2 year age difference.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd move either of them in a deal for an offensive star without blinking an eye.)
No--they're not worlds better. Artie's very good defensively at least if we keep him off the right wing. He's a good--not great penalty killer. If anything Dubi's a little bit better penalty killer and not really a slouch in his own end.

I think you need to look at their games a little harder. Dubi's more likely to be found grinding in the offensive corners and Artie's a little more likely to be found covering a d-man pinching. Dubi's usually got farther to go to get back on the defensive side of the puck. That's what having a hard forecheck is about. You pile up the hits and try to wear the other team down. Dubi piles up a lot more hits because he's working in the trenches harder though as Zuccarello Awesome rightly points out last season he wasn't moving his feet enough. He's capable of more.

And this is what makes Callahan so valuable because he can both get in deep and work the corners like Dubi but has the energy as well to get back faster on d.

As far as the age difference between Dubi and Artiie--Dubi's was still more of a point producing player back when he was Artie's age.

Artie should be more of a factor offensively. His point totals are disappointing considering his last year in the AHL and the explosion of goals he scored in the preseason of his rookie NHL year. I think he is more talented than Dubinsky but it's not coming out and he's kind of been bypassed by Stepan who is a more cerebral creative player. Anisimov is capable of more as well but I have bigger doubts that we'll get it from him than that we'll get another 50 point season out of Dubi.

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06-08-2012, 12:26 PM
  #454
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Of that whole post, that's the part you find alarming, mooskating?

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06-08-2012, 12:45 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Gaborik - players who are often injured don't usually get you over top

Dubinsky - Holds out of camp for more $$$ comes back and S*cks for 82g?

Anisimov- when he isn't scoring (which isn't too often) you don't notice anything about his game. He brings nothing.

MDZ - Didn't just "play some bad games because his grandmother died" play some bad games because he's not a very intelligent hockey player.

Boyle - a 20g aberration season for a 5g scorer, who is built like the Hulk and plays the game like bruce banner

Stepan - skilled but can't skate, doesn't show up. small and not too strong. But he's our future #1 C

Boy do we overvalue our players here.
A little harsh , but aside from Step ,I couldn't agree more

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06-08-2012, 12:52 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by EEDAWGZ View Post
A little harsh , but aside from Step ,I couldn't agree more
So Gaborik is here 3 years and scores 40 2 out of 3. Interesting him being hurt always effects us.

Plus he had a very good series against the caps after his shoulder is slammed into the boards. Him being injury prone has nothing to do with that injury. The hate Gaborik gets on here is unreal.

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Old
06-08-2012, 12:56 PM
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Gaborik - players who are often injured don't usually get you over top
Two of his 3 years here, he was far and away the best offensive on the Rangers and one of the more dangerous forwards in the league.
Quote:
Dubinsky - Holds out of camp for more $$$ comes back and S*cks for 82g?
The business of business is business. One down year suddenly does not whitewash what he has done previously.
Quote:
Anisimov- when he isn't scoring (which isn't too often) you don't notice anything about his game. He brings nothing.
And two years ago, we were annoiting him as our 2nd line center.
Quote:
MDZ - Didn't just "play some bad games because his grandmother died" play some bad games because he's not a very intelligent hockey player.
How many 21 year old defensemen can you name that have had better seasons?
Quote:
Boyle - a 20g aberration season for a 5g scorer, who is built like the Hulk and plays the game like bruce banner
Bruce Banner is not near the top of his team in blocked shots and hits. What are you looking for from a 3rd line center? How many of them are 50 point players? Or even 40 point players?
Quote:
Stepan - skilled but can't skate, doesn't show up. small and not too strong. But he's our future #1 C
Second year in the league. Also 21 years old. Clearly he has shown all that he can be.
Quote:
Boy do we overvalue our players here.
Boy, does the need for instant gratification overwhelm rational thought.

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06-08-2012, 12:58 PM
  #458
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Plus he had a very good series against the caps after his shoulder is slammed into the boards. Him being injury prone has nothing to do with that injury.

ok

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06-08-2012, 01:32 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Two of his 3 years here, he was far and away the best offensive on the Rangers and one of the more dangerous forwards in the league.

The business of business is business. One down year suddenly does not whitewash what he has done previously.

And two years ago, we were annoiting him as our 2nd line center.

How many 21 year old defensemen can you name that have had better seasons?

Bruce Banner is not near the top of his team in blocked shots and hits. What are you looking for from a 3rd line center? How many of them are 50 point players? Or even 40 point players?

Second year in the league. Also 21 years old. Clearly he has shown all that he can be.

Boy, does the need for instant gratification overwhelm rational thought.


Some Rangers fans need to look over the rosters of 29 other teams. What team doesn't have a few issues through the lineup? I guess the Kings look perfect right now. The Bruins last season. Yeesh. Glass half empty or what?

A couple tweaks to this lineup and the Rangers can win it all. Stay the course!

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06-08-2012, 01:35 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by The Right Way View Post


Some Rangers fans need to look over the rosters of 29 other teams. What team doesn't have a few issues through the lineup? I guess the Kings look perfect right now. The Bruins last season. Yeesh. Glass half empty or what?

A couple tweaks to this lineup and the Rangers can win it all. Stay the course!
19 straight playoff games with 3 goals or less exceeds the "a few issues" part. It means they have a major hole or two in the offense. While a wonderful supplementary piece to the team, theyre not going to block shots their way to a Cup.

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06-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
19 straight playoff games with 3 goals or less exceeds the "a few issues" part. It means they have a major hole or two in the offense. While a wonderful supplementary piece to the team, theyre not going to block shots their way to a Cup.
Exactly , aside from that ,we need our top scorers to not only be healthy enough to actually withstand the grueling schedule of the PO's but to actually perform like our top scorers , I'm sorry but regular season stats mean d**k Come playoff time


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Old
06-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #462
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I dont think blocking shots and playing a tight defensive game is the end goal for this team. I think Torts is adapting to the talent he has which is limited, give him some more talent and we'll start playing a little more aggressively IMO.

He'll still demand defensive responsibility and shot blocking, but I think he'll open it up a little too.

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06-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by EEDAWGZ View Post
Plus he had a very good series against the caps after his shoulder is slammed into the boards. Him being injury prone has nothing to do with that injury.

ok
Hilarious right. You ignore the point he has 2 40 goal seasons. You ignore the point the team doesn't make the playoffs without him in the line up.

If Marian Gaborik came in and was constantly pulling his groin or hamstring yes I Would call him injury prone. If Marian Gaborik continuously say out when he was questionable I would call him soft. But when a guy awkwardly crashes into the boards and tears his rotator cuff well there isn't much he can do about it. The guy played 2 rounds after and a damn good one against Washington, but he still gets hate.

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06-08-2012, 01:47 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
19 straight playoff games with 3 goals or less exceeds the "a few issues" part. It means they have a major hole or two in the offense. While a wonderful supplementary piece to the team, theyre not going to block shots their way to a Cup.

I agree about the offense, and it's frustrating, but the results were there. 1st in the east and a conference finals finish. Very respectable, and for a young team no less. They nearly blocked shots to a Cup Finals appearance. If they hadn't played that grind it out style for 82 games + 3 series... well they might have had more energy by the ECF or they may never have got that far to begin with.

Another legit scoring threat and a tweak of the PP is all this team needs. No drastic changes in personel or the lineup. It's close.

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06-08-2012, 01:51 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
Hilarious right. You ignore the point he has 2 40 goal seasons. You ignore the point the team doesn't make the playoffs without him in the line up.

If Marian Gaborik came in and was constantly pulling his groin or hamstring yes I Would call him injury prone. If Marian Gaborik continuously say out when he was questionable I would call him soft. But when a guy awkwardly crashes into the boards and tears his rotator cuff well there isn't much he can do about it. The guy played 2 rounds after and a damn good one against Washington, but he still gets hate.
Hilarious that you ignore us missing the playoffs his first year here, and our first round exit his second year , with a dynamic 1 goal , and when we finally make a run this year ,he's injured , wonderful

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06-08-2012, 01:51 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by The Right Way View Post
I agree about the offense, and it's frustrating, but the results were there. 1st in the east and a conference finals finish. Very respectable, and for a young team no less. They nearly blocked shots to a Cup Finals appearance. If they hadn't played that grind it out style for 82 games + 3 series... well they might have had more energy by the ECF or they may never have got that far to begin with.

Another legit scoring threat and a tweak of the PP is all this team needs. No drastic changes in personel or the lineup. It's close.
Agreed. People forget that this team is so young. Even if we don't make personnel changes, the team should theoretically improve just by the further development of our younger guys.

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06-08-2012, 01:52 PM
  #467
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Exactly , aside from that ,we need our top scorers to only be healthy enough to actually withstand the grueling schedule of the PO's but to actually perform like our top scorers , I'm sorry but regular season stats mean d**k Come playoff time
Sure, but this team DID win two games in the ECF. And Gaboriks' injury is not one that can be characterized as being injury prone.

We need our top scorers to score? What a great sentiment. Exactly which playoff team does NOT need their top scorers to score? The fact that this team was able to get so far without being an offensive juggernut should tell you about how good they can be. And lets' recall that they are either ther 3rd or 4th youngest team in the league.

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06-08-2012, 01:56 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by EEDAWGZ View Post
Hilarious that you ignore us missing the playoffs his first year here, and our first round exit his second year , with a dynamic 1 goal , and when we finally make a run this year ,he's injured , wonderful
Two years ago they lose the last game of the season to the eventual eastern conference champions. Last year no one is denying Gaborik had a bad year. This year he was hands down the offense.

It's pointless talkin to the Gaborik haters. It is one the dumber and baseless things I have ever seen from any fan base. As long as torts goes out of his way to mention the importance of Gaborik , I gues that's all that matters.

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06-08-2012, 02:06 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Sure, but this team DID win two games in the ECF. And Gaboriks' injury is not one that can be characterized as being injury prone.

We need our top scorers to score? What a great sentiment. Exactly which playoff team does NOT need their top scorers to score? The fact that this team was able to get so far without being an offensive juggernut should tell you about how good they can be. And lets' recall that they are either ther 3rd or 4th youngest team in the league.
What team doesn't need their top scorers to score? Teams that have Top scorers that actually show up when you need them to ,our team is young ? no s**t ,I could tell watching them in a ECF that they had no business being in . All I said was that I agree with a majority of what NikC said , now I have a bunch of clowns quoting me

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06-08-2012, 02:07 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
Two years ago they lose the last game of the season to the eventual eastern conference champions. Last year no one is denying Gaborik had a bad year. This year he was hands down the offense.

It's pointless talkin to the Gaborik haters. It is one the dumber and baseless things I have ever seen from any fan base. As long as torts goes out of his way to mention the importance of Gaborik , I gues that's all that matters.
Well , we shall see when he returns , whenever that is

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06-08-2012, 02:24 PM
  #471
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Two of his 3 years here, he was far and away the best offensive on the Rangers and one of the more dangerous forwards in the league.

The business of business is business. One down year suddenly does not whitewash what he has done previously.

And two years ago, we were annoiting him as our 2nd line center.

How many 21 year old defensemen can you name that have had better seasons?

Bruce Banner is not near the top of his team in blocked shots and hits. What are you looking for from a 3rd line center? How many of them are 50 point players? Or even 40 point players?

Second year in the league. Also 21 years old. Clearly he has shown all that he can be.

Boy, does the need for instant gratification overwhelm rational thought.
Thanks TB.

I can now take a break from this board for a couple weeks knowing that rational thought still has a place here.

A seriously sound post.

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06-08-2012, 02:25 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Two of his 3 years here, he was far and away the best offensive on the Rangers and one of the more dangerous forwards in the league.

The business of business is business. One down year suddenly does not whitewash what he has done previously.

And two years ago, we were annoiting him as our 2nd line center.

How many 21 year old defensemen can you name that have had better seasons?

Bruce Banner is not near the top of his team in blocked shots and hits. What are you looking for from a 3rd line center? How many of them are 50 point players? Or even 40 point players?

Second year in the league. Also 21 years old. Clearly he has shown all that he can be.

Boy, does the need for instant gratification overwhelm rational thought.


Quote:
Two of his 3 years here, he was far and away the best offensive on the Rangers and one of the more dangerous forwards in the league.
Doesn’t take away from the fact that for the last half of Gaborik’s career he’s missed a substantial amount of time due to injuries. Successful teams need their top line players who are consistent both in their game and in their health. Not in one season/out the next!
Pretty obvious that often injured players are hard to depend on when you’re trying to build a consistent contender.


Quote:

The business of business is business. One down year suddenly does not whitewash what he has done previously.
Lol! What has he done? He’s a year removed from a career high 50p+ season... When you hold out for more cash, you better prove you’re worth it and at least MATCH your output, not go backwards, especially when you’ve been healthy and played almost every game this season. Kind of justifies the label of privileged primadonna to me.



Quote:
How many 21 year old defensemen can you name that have had better seasons?
Stats wise, probably not many, but I can name several that haven’t contributed to 3 straight loses in the postseason.
His struggles are equal to his talent and often negate it, when I WATCH the games and not just the stats.
I still trade him in a deal to bring in a much needed top line forward.



Quote:
Bruce Banner is not near the top of his team in blocked shots and hits. What are you looking for from a 3rd line center? How many of them are 50 point players? Or even 40 point players?
Maybe it’s our coach’s insistence on overplaying him that causes me to resent him being on the ice in key moments of the game
That and the fact that he’s plays the softest game i've ever seen for a man his size. Again, I’ve WATCHED him play nearly every game
He’s been here. For his physical package he SHOULD bring a lot more. He doesn’t. He’s a fourth line C.



Quote:
And two years ago, we were anointing him as our 2nd line center.
That’s your problem, I never did. He has a great shot, and looks great when he drives to the net 7 or 8x out of 82g. Other than that and his thousand yard stare, I’d never notice him out there. Zero physicality. He’s a ghost.



Quote:
Second year in the league. Also 21 years old. Clearly he has shown all that he can be.
Pretty good player I won’t deny that, but he’s a weak #2 C and people are here have him slotted for our future #1 C line?
I’m not saying he doesn’t have potential or hit his ceiling, but nothing I’ve seen from him so far would keep me from
Moving for an upgrade, say like Jordan Staal....
Sorry, i'm just not that dazzled with him and he's too small imo.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Boy, does the need for instant gratification overwhelm rational thought.
Lol instant gratification? Yea right! I’m a NYR fan remember those two things are diametrically opposed!
No I see our players for what they are. We have a few good players, nothing great, nothing dominant.
I won’t allow myself to think that because they are homegrown, we couldn’t get better players if we needed to. sorry just my opinion

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06-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #473
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I would like to think Tortorella is coaching to the talent he has, if you add a couple of goal scorers, he may open things up a bit. When he was in Tampa Bay, they played a go for it style, and I don't remember Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis going down to block too many shots, playing with an good but not great goalie (Khabibulin; though he played well that season), outside of Dan Boyle, and Pavel Kubina, an OK defence corp when they won the Stanley Cup in 2003-2004. They were 3rd in the NHL in goals scored with 245 that regular season.

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06-08-2012, 02:33 PM
  #474
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NikC , your not allowed to have an opinion , it causes ********

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06-08-2012, 03:02 PM
  #475
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I can now take a break from this board for a couple weeks knowing that rational thought still has a place here.
First time I have been on since the loss. I knew that immediately following the loss, the chicken little posts around here would have been through the roof.

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