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Glen Sather looking at free agency - "We don't trade kids"

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Old
05-31-2012, 11:05 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
The drama that would ensue from a long term Semin signing both on the Rangers and on this board would be incredible.

That said, no one seems to have pointed out so far that Semin is actually a kind of player that fits the mold of what this team needs. That said the risk is far too high.
He's exactly what this team needs when he's on his game, but as you said, the risk is ultimately too high. That risk makes it very difficult to invest in him long term and he's already come out and said previously that he doesn't want another one year deal.

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05-31-2012, 11:08 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He's exactly what this team needs when he's on his game, but as you said, the risk is ultimately too high. That risk makes it very difficult to invest in him long term and he's already come out and said previously that he doesn't want another one year deal.
I agree.

Would you take him though if he agreed to a 1 year contract at a slight premium?

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05-31-2012, 11:14 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I have a serious question for everyone:

Would anyone really be upset of the Rangers directed their efforts to bringing in Suter over any big-name offensive player this off-season?

Suter-Girardi
Staal-MDZ
McDonagh-Erixon/Schultz

I feel FAR more comfortable giving Suter a long-term deal over Parise or trading the required assets to bring in a 8 million dollar cap hit in Nash.

6.5 million for 10 years for Suter?
Did you just put McD on the third pairing? that will not happen. We need to spend our money on help upfront so we do not go into next season with two 4th lines. That means either a kid steps up or we acquire a forward. We need depth on the backline not high end help. That's a luxury I don't believe we can afford.

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05-31-2012, 11:23 AM
  #154
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[QUOTE=GaBorat;50352467]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKG View Post

I'm saying IF he is a locker room cancer and that's a big IF.
I mean if he is really that awful, you just healthy scratch him and keep him away from the team.

I doubt that will happen though. He is good enough that he is trade-able. Its a one year contract.

I completely understand not investing money in him for more than an year and making sure he is not the first choice:
but frankly if:
A) all options are exhausted
B) its a one year deal

there is very little risk...

He is good enough that he is trade-able.
The one year deal makes him a liquid asset, even if it is a bit expensive.
You just don't give him any sort of NM or NTC...

What I meant by "as small as it is" is that he buys into the system. Realistically, if we signed him, I'd see him coming in for one year, adding a bit to the powerplay, and making us a bit more dangerous 5 on 5. He'd probably be gone the next year...Maybe there is a small chance that he becomes a revelation, and you sign him long term next year.
So you want to see Sather waste 7M on a guy that you hope is going to be a reclamation project?

Generally,you don't invest THAT much money into a guy for a YEAR. Makes no sense.

You could use that cap space to sign two or three secondary guys, and add depth.


I don't get YOUR infatuation with Semin.

Pro:
He has the best wrist shot in the league.


What else does he bring to the table?

Cons:
Headaches. Distractions. Arguments with the coach. Pouting. Floating.NO EFFORT.Benchings.Unnecessary headlines.

Any of the above seem like the identity of this team?

THAT is a reason why this entire notion is a bad idea.

It is bad asset management just to write this guy off after a 1/3 of the season when(not if) the cons come out.

I love the idea of well the Rangers could just TRADE him....He's good enough... 7M for a 2nd rounder? AGAIN BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT.

These are the reasons you stay away from a guy like Semin.


Was this enough for you to stop with this idea?

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05-31-2012, 11:27 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by TKG View Post
Isn't there two downsides here 7M to play for the whale?

Bringing in a locker room cancer?

Can you retract your idea now?

On the last your not convinced about it either. (As small as it is)
His point was that if, in the unlikely chance Semin needs to be removed from the system, he would be either be traded (likely) or placed on waivers (where another team may or may not claim him). If he clears (also unlikely) he would be assigned to the AHL, where he would most likely refuse to report and sign with Russia. He would never see the Whale's locker room.

I would be open to paying the premium for a one year deal on Semin. You mentioned earlier that this would be "bad asset management", but I feel it is the opposite. Lets look at all the potential scenarios.

Semin signs for one year. He immediately proves to be a locker room cancer (which you seem to believe is a strong possibility). He is either traded or placed on waivers. Doesn't see the AHL locker room for the reasons I mentioned above.

Semin signs for a year, he plays okay, but not up to his perceived potential. He could still easily be traded at the deadline to a non-cap ceiling team willing to take on about a third of his salary for a playoff run. Semin, as a pending UFA, would be an excellent option as a deadline addition to lower seeded team with cap space. Rangers get a draft pick, or at least something useful just for making the signing. Something from nothing.

Semin signs for a year, he plays well enough for the Rangers to justify keeping him past the deadline with hopes of contributing down the stretch. After the season management can explore whether they want to resign him or let him walk. Maybe a sign and trade (doesn't seem to happen often, but it is a possibility).

That said, I am mostly in the camp of upgrading secondary scoring/the bottom six. Like others have said, depth and defense/goaltending wins championships. We have the defense and goaltending. A few cost effective moves to bolster our third line would go a long way in improving this team. There are also players in the system that are almost NHL ready that could possibly be groomed into such players (Yogan comes to mind, JT Miller a little later).

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05-31-2012, 11:31 AM
  #156
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No thanks to Semin. Zherdev part 2.

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05-31-2012, 11:32 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKG View Post
So you want to see Sather waste 7M on a guy that you hope is going to be a reclamation project?

Generally,you don't invest THAT much money into a guy for a YEAR. Makes no sense.

You could use that cap space to sign two or three secondary guys, and add depth.


I don't get YOUR infatuation with Semin.

Pro:
He has the best wrist shot in the league.


What else does he bring to the table?

Cons:
Headaches. Distractions. Arguments with the coach. Pouting. Floating.NO EFFORT.Benchings.Unnecessary headlines.

Any of the above seem like the identity of this team?

THAT is a reason why this entire notion is a bad idea.

It is bad asset management just to write this guy off after a 1/3 of the season when(not if) the cons come out.

I love the idea of well the Rangers could just TRADE him....He's good enough... 7M for a 2nd rounder? AGAIN BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT.

These are the reasons you stay away from a guy like Semin.


Was this enough for you to stop with this idea?
-There is no infatuation. He isn't my first choice, but we could use another guy in the top 6.
-I don't really see any bad asset management. Unless you're speaking from a monetary perspective - but frankly the Rangers have the money to take these sort of chances.
-From a player perspective, there is absolutely no poor asset management. If you sign a player and he doesn't fit, you're not losing any value because you essentially got him for no assets other than monetary assets, which frankly you transfer to another team eventually anyways if he doesn't fit.
-If anything you are creating hockey assets since you get 1 of a) Semin or b) a pick if he doesn't fit.
-All the poor qualities you cited - that's an assumption based off a Russia stereotype. I don't really how you can say how he puts in NO effort.

How many times was he benched in Washington under Hunter who plays a similar system as we do?

The point is the guy has a lot of talent. If we've reached August 1st and there are no more options and we know we've got to add another top sixer, there is very little downside risk in giving a high talent player like Semin a one year deal.

I mean yeah, I'd prefer we go and get Parise, or Nash, or someone else, but what if that is impossible? We can't just stand pat.

If I was advocating a multi-year deal, I'd completely agree with you, but I'm not so yeah my opinion won't change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by New England Hockey View Post
His point was that if, in the unlikely chance Semin needs to be removed from the system, he would be either be traded (likely) or placed on waivers (where another team may or may not claim him). If he clears (also unlikely) he would be assigned to the AHL, where he would most likely refuse to report and sign with Russia. He would never see the Whale's locker room.

I would be open to paying the premium for a one year deal on Semin. You mentioned earlier that this would be "bad asset management", but I feel it is the opposite. Lets look at all the potential scenarios.

Semin signs for one year. He immediately proves to be a locker room cancer (which you seem to believe is a strong possibility). He is either traded or placed on waivers. Doesn't see the AHL locker room for the reasons I mentioned above.

Semin signs for a year, he plays okay, but not up to his perceived potential. He could still easily be traded at the deadline to a non-cap ceiling team willing to take on about a third of his salary for a playoff run. Semin, as a pending UFA, would be an excellent option as a deadline addition to lower seeded team with cap space. Rangers get a draft pick, or at least something useful just for making the signing. Something from nothing.

Semin signs for a year, he plays well enough for the Rangers to justify keeping him past the deadline with hopes of contributing down the stretch. After the season management can explore whether they want to resign him or let him walk. Maybe a sign and trade (doesn't seem to happen often, but it is a possibility).

That said, I am mostly in the camp of upgrading secondary scoring/the bottom six. Like others have said, depth and defense/goaltending wins championships. We have the defense and goaltending. A few cost effective moves to bolster our third line would go a long way in improving this team. There are also players in the system that are almost NHL ready that could possibly be groomed into such players (Yogan comes to mind, JT Miller a little later).
This. You said it so eloquently...

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05-31-2012, 11:33 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKG View Post

So you want to see Sather waste 7M on a guy that you hope is going to be a reclamation project?

Generally,you don't invest THAT much money into a guy for a YEAR. Makes no sense.

You could use that cap space to sign two or three secondary guys, and add depth.


I don't get YOUR infatuation with Semin.

Pro:
He has the best wrist shot in the league.


What else does he bring to the table?

Cons:
Headaches. Distractions. Arguments with the coach. Pouting. Floating.NO EFFORT.Benchings.Unnecessary headlines.

Any of the above seem like the identity of this team?

THAT is a reason why this entire notion is a bad idea.

It is bad asset management just to write this guy off after a 1/3 of the season when(not if) the cons come out.

I love the idea of well the Rangers could just TRADE him....He's good enough... 7M for a 2nd rounder? AGAIN BAD ASSET MANAGEMENT.

These are the reasons you stay away from a guy like Semin.


Was this enough for you to stop with this idea?
How is dumping salary for a draft pick bad asset management?

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05-31-2012, 11:53 AM
  #159
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I would have loved to have Bowmeester if he was a right handed shot and also cheaper than 6.8...

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05-31-2012, 12:25 PM
  #160
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Semin is not a Tortorella type player. Forget it.

Neither is Boyes who will be lucky if anyone signs him.

You have to have forwards who will go both ways. We've had these experiments with Wolski and EC already. How did they work out? There are things that all these players have in common--they don't like to hit or be hit--they're lackadaisical on the defensive side of the puck--they're inconsistent at what they do best (which is offense)--they have a tendency to float when things aren't going well.

Parise--most probably not but would be a good addition though maybe not an affordable one.
Doan--no harm talking to him but I wouldn't bet on it.
Jones--very good.
Stoll--very good.
Kelly-very good.

There are a few others worth looking at Gaustad, Campbell, Ponikarovsky--maybe Pyatt. They might not score a lot of points but they'd deepen our lineup for the time being.

If we're going to take a flyer on someone just for pure offense--rather than a Semin--go after Selanne--he's old but he's always given his best effort. Wouldn't have to sign him probably more than a year at a time.

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05-31-2012, 12:47 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
I agree.

Would you take him though if he agreed to a 1 year contract at a slight premium?
It would really depend on what kind of premium we're talking about. I wouldn't come close to offering his current salary. Seems to me like he wants to be paid on his big time years, and not the mediocre one's he's had over the last two.

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05-31-2012, 01:03 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
Rick Nash is human, playing for such an awful franchise probably sucks the life out of you. I think he would come here, in this locker room and become the player he once was. But its a tremendously expensive gamble in both assests and cap space. If he comes here and continues to suck, then we are stuck with that contract because No one will touch it at that point.
Continues to suck...

he's scored 40+ twice...if you take out his rookie season he's averaged 37 goals per 82 games played....

one can only hope he "continues to suck"

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05-31-2012, 01:03 PM
  #163
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The Wild and Wings are taking out the Donald Fehr ginsu knives in their battle over Ryan Suter

Quote:
The Wild may have an in -- Suter's wife hails from Bloomington. And maybe Tom Gilbert, a Madison resident like the Suters, can execute a sales pitch, too. There is no doubt the Wild believes Suter is a bona fide No. 1/2 defenseman, and I've talked to two NHL coaches this week that went on and on and on and on about how good Suter is and can be -- so much so, that I've bought in.

There will be so many teams going after Suter, this might be one of those cases where GM Chuck Fletcher might want to get ahead of everybody and try to trade for Suter's exclusive negotiating rights in advance of July 1. It would be a risk because he'd have to give up assets with no guarantee of signing Suter, but since many folks believe Suter and Parise wouldn't mind playing together, this might be the smart route for any GM interested in both potential free agents.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/155934815.html

John Shannon reported a few months ago,Parise doesn't want to play in Minnesota. Too many distractions.

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05-31-2012, 01:23 PM
  #164
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My wishlist, 1 top 6 forward and a competent defensemen to replace Bickel/Eminger.

This team was 2 wins away from a cup berth a few tweeks are all that is needed. This team grew exponentially this year and October can't come quick enough.

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05-31-2012, 01:49 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by SaveByLundqvist View Post
My wishlist, 1 top 6 forward and a competent defensemen to replace Bickel/Eminger.

This team was 2 wins away from a cup berth a few tweeks are all that is needed. This team grew exponentially this year and October can't come quick enough.
They were two wins away, but they also struggled against a mediocre Ottawa team, and almost lost to Washington.

They can't go lengthy rounds again early in the playoffs. They have to put away teams early.

They have three needs:

1) Top six LW, hopefully in the power forward mold.

2) A hard shooting defensemen, hopefully a righty, that can act as a triggerman on our PP. Also can either be used on our second or third pair. Wouldn't hurt if he was a vet.

3)A high quality third line center. A dude who can dominate in the face off circles, while being reliable on the defensive side of the puck.

All of those are must haves. Some minor stuff like perhaps acquiring a better RW for our second line. But that is not priority.

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05-31-2012, 02:11 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
They were two wins away, but they also struggled against a mediocre Ottawa team, and almost lost to Washington.

They can't go lengthy rounds again early in the playoffs. They have to put away teams early.

They have three needs:

1) Top six LW, hopefully in the power forward mold.

2) A hard shooting defensemen, hopefully a righty, that can act as a triggerman on our PP. Also can either be used on our second or third pair. Wouldn't hurt if he was a vet.

3)A high quality third line center. A dude who can dominate in the face off circles, while being reliable on the defensive side of the puck.

All of those are must haves. Some minor stuff like perhaps acquiring a better RW for our second line. But that is not priority.
Hit the nail right on the head with this one. Exactly the three areas this team should focus on. Problem is, it's easier said than done.

As for Cally, on a good offensive team, he's a great third liner. We we forced to play him on our 2nd, because there's no one better for the position on this team, not because he's exactly top 6 material.

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05-31-2012, 02:15 PM
  #167
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Semin would be a locker room cancer. Doesn't play our style at ALL.

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05-31-2012, 02:22 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Hit the nail right on the head with this one. Exactly the three areas this team should focus on. Problem is, it's easier said than done.

As for Cally, on a good offensive team, he's a great third liner. We we forced to play him on our 2nd, because there's no one better for the position on this team, not because he's exactly top 6 material.
He can be a second liner with the right type of players. But he is a natural third liner. For Callahan to be a quality second liner you need big, dominant, physical players to play with. You also do not want Callahan to spend long times with the puck. The longer he has it, the worse it gets.

Callahan is great at retrieving pucks, and getting garbage goals. That should be his role at all times.

I actually think Cally would have good chemistry with Krieder eventually. But Cally would never develop chemistry with Stepan.

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05-31-2012, 02:24 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Hit the nail right on the head with this one. Exactly the three areas this team should focus on. Problem is, it's easier said than done.

As for Cally, on a good offensive team, he's a great third liner. We we forced to play him on our 2nd, because there's no one better for the position on this team, not because he's exactly top 6 material.
I don't necessarily agree with that characterization of Callahan.
I think he is a 2nd liner. He just needs some more talent on his line. 55 points is very solid for a 2nd liner. It would be nice however to have a guy on that line who can put up 70.

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05-31-2012, 02:24 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
He can be a second liner with the right type of players. But he is a natural third liner. For Callahan to be a quality second liner you need big, dominant, physical players to play with.

I actually think Cally would have good chemistry with Krieder eventually. But Cally would never develop chemistry with Stepan.
Yep. For Cally to be more reliable offensively, you definately need some big players who play he same style he does.

A Backes-Cally combo in 2014 would be fun to watch.

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05-31-2012, 02:25 PM
  #171
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I believe Semin will be a lot b etter off getting away from Ovechkin. My guys in Washington have made it clear to me that the not so great 8 is the problem with that organization.

That said, I want no part of him.

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05-31-2012, 02:28 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
I don't necessarily agree with that characterization of Callahan.
I think he is a 2nd liner. He just needs some more talent on his line. 55 points is very solid for a 2nd liner. It would be nice however to have a guy on that line who can put up 70.
Like Blueshirt Believer said, with the right players, Cally can be a good 2nd liner. But he can't be with Richards or Stepan. They both like to hold onto the puck, and use some sort of creativity, which Cally doesn't exactly bring a lot of. 55 points in 70 games is good, but how many times a game do you see him Try that stupid blind backhand pass from the corner to the slot? Way too often. He does that because he's trying to make a creative play, he just doesn't know how to. He's got the mentality of a third liner. Not a top 6 player.

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05-31-2012, 02:51 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
They were two wins away, but they also struggled against a mediocre Ottawa team, and almost lost to Washington.

They can't go lengthy rounds again early in the playoffs. They have to put away teams early.

They have three needs:

1) Top six LW, hopefully in the power forward mold.

2) A hard shooting defensemen, hopefully a righty, that can act as a triggerman on our PP. Also can either be used on our second or third pair. Wouldn't hurt if he was a vet.

3)A high quality third line center. A dude who can dominate in the face off circles, while being reliable on the defensive side of the puck.

All of those are must haves. Some minor stuff like perhaps acquiring a better RW for our second line. But that is not priority.
Totally agree with you, forgot about the third line center void. I personally hope Ansimov is traded to fill in the void of a third line center. Ansimov is slow, soft, and at times looks lost.

Overall though, I'm thinking this playoff experience is really gonna help the guys like Stepan, Kreider, Del Zotto, and McDonagh grow towards our ultimate goal.

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05-31-2012, 03:02 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBorat View Post
I don't necessarily agree with that characterization of Callahan.
I think he is a 2nd liner. He just needs some more talent on his line. 55 points is very solid for a 2nd liner. It would be nice however to have a guy on that line who can put up 70.
A guy who can put up 70 is a first line player

3rd line players don't score 30 goals (well, close enough in Cally's case)

He's a 2nd line player through and through at this point, he just needs to stay healthy

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05-31-2012, 03:02 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
I believe Semin will be a lot b etter off getting away from Ovechkin. My guys in Washington have made it clear to me that the not so great 8 is the problem with that organization.

That said, I want no part of him.
Can't say I'm surprised about that.

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