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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

The End is Near-Jan 14th Board of Govenors meeting

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Old
12-22-2004, 02:41 PM
  #26
AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
tHE BEST SOLUTION WOULD be to hire competent GM's and have owners who understand budgets.

Also, the best solution would be to get rid of the masses of fans that are so gullible Bettman could sell the **** as gold and they would buy it.

Sigh.
You really have no clue do you?

Here's a couple clues, Owners and GMs are not homogeneous and the NHL is supposed to be a competative league.

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12-22-2004, 02:47 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AM
You really have no clue do you?

Here's a couple clues, Owners and GMs are not homogeneous and the NHL is supposed to be a competative league.

he doesn't understand because his Sens have an owner who's willing to spend now and not handing out IOU's to the players.

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Old
12-22-2004, 03:31 PM
  #28
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When was the last time a Sport canceled a season? Was it a full season in 94 for baseball?

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12-22-2004, 03:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
When was the last time a Sport canceled a season? Was it a full season in 94 for baseball?
I don't think a league has ever cancelled the full season.

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12-22-2004, 03:40 PM
  #30
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No it was a half of season...the beginning of the 94 baseball season took place, then the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the world series were cancelled... The following year, MLB went to training camp with replacement players and were prepared to play the season with them, until everything was resolved

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12-22-2004, 03:43 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
When was the last time a Sport canceled a season? Was it a full season in 94 for baseball?
No. The players went on strike in mid-August and the owners canceled the remainder of the season about a month later. This would be the first time a major sports league (if you want to call the NHL major) has called off a full season.

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Old
12-22-2004, 03:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
Can anyone logically tell me why the players would all of a sudden capitulate? The owners losing one season have far more to lose than the players losing a season.

I mean, you try and repair hundreds of thousands of people in your fanbase.... the players wont be blamed in the end. Sure the public as usual is misguided now, but if the owners cancel the season, the season ticket sales even in the strongest of hockey markets will plummet. Imagine what it would be like in Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Anaheim, Chicago?

You dont think people will cancel their seats if the owners have the gall to cancel a season because they dont want their management to be held accountable?

Ridiculous.

This whole lockout is insane.
You have yet to answer a simple question. Where are the players going to play if the NHL is shut down? It appears the NHL players are not making friends around the world.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_ne...her&league=nhl

There are a finite number of leagues to play in and NHL players are burning bridges left and right. Where are these whiny primadonnas going to make their $1.5 million a year if they aren't playing in the NHL? And remember, their own league is not a viable solution.


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12-22-2004, 04:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
tHE BEST SOLUTION WOULD be to hire competent GM's and have owners who understand budgets.

Also, the best solution would be to get rid of the masses of fans that are so gullible Bettman could sell the **** as gold and they would buy it.

Sigh.

Sigh, yes, everyone is stupid but you. We are all shortsighted and can't figure our way out of a paper bag....

It is moot. whether you like it or not the owners are united and will eventually get thier cap. The players can wait and wait as much as they like, but the owners have other forms of revenue and can survive much longer with no hockey. The players can't go to another league and get the same salaries, they will lose this. and the longer they hold out, the smaller the pie that is divided up will be.

It's sad that they are being led like sheep by goodenow. They will lose out more then they have to. Oh well, I guess we can only be patient and hope that some of the smarter players step up and for Bob to realize he can't win this.

The players have had it too good, for too long, times they are a-changin'

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Old
12-22-2004, 04:24 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
It is moot. whether you like it or not the owners are united and will eventually get thier cap. The players can wait and wait as much as they like, but the owners have other forms of revenue and can survive much longer with no hockey. The players can't go to another league and get the same salaries, they will lose this. and the longer they hold out, the smaller the pie that is divided up will be.
I think you've nailed it right here. The players have no other viable option other than the NHL, even a capped NHL. They can hold out for as long as they wish and hope the owners blink first, but that doesn't seem likely. In the meantime, the players decision to stand on an anti-cap principle is costing them literally millions of dollars every week, money that few, if any, will ever recover in their lives.
At some point, principle won't pay the mortgage and the players will give in.
Until then, I'll enjoy the college hoops season.

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Old
12-22-2004, 04:26 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
You have yet to answer a simple question. Where are the players going to play if the NHL is shut down? It appears the NHL players are not making friends around the world.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_ne...her&league=nhl

There are a finite number of leagues to play in and NHL players are burning bridges left and right. Where are these whiny primadonnas going to make their $1.5 million a year if they aren't playing in the NHL? And remember, their own league is not a viable solution.

Though it's always a good policy to take Fischler's hyperbole with the grain of salt it deserves, his contention that the European option's bloom is falling off the rose is very valid. And not just from the players' end...the fans of these leagues, while loving the superstars, are also finding out the rank-and-file NHLers aren't really much of a step up from what they're used to seeing.

You can be sure that the players are praying like crazy monks that the WHA's eventual "relaunch" will have some real money behind it. It might be their only chance at obtaining some leverage that doesn't pass as laughable at the moment.

They can't all play for Kazan, and even with the Rolls Royce of Russian hockey there seems to be a growing disenchantment with their NHL superstars doing little to change their place in the standings. Guys like Lecavalier and Richards don't exactly look ecstatic to be there in interviews, that's for sure.

These next 3 weeks and change should be very interesting, I imagine the internal meetings for both sides of this dispute will be full of animated discourse. :lol

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Old
12-22-2004, 04:29 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
tHE BEST SOLUTION WOULD be to hire competent GM's and have owners who understand budgets.
.
29 more Bill Wirtzes? :lol

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12-22-2004, 04:41 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Where are these whiny primadonnas going to make their $1.5 million a year if they aren't playing in the NHL?
WHat do you care?
If you think they are whiny primadonnas, why do you want to watch them in the NHL?

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Old
12-22-2004, 05:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
No it was a half of season...the beginning of the 94 baseball season took place, then the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the world series were cancelled... The following year, MLB went to training camp with replacement players and were prepared to play the season with them, until everything was resolved

You can't tease the fans and then pull away the finals. Thats is much worse than cancelling a whole season.

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Old
12-22-2004, 05:26 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
.
They can't all play for Kazan, and even with the Rolls Royce of Russian hockey there seems to be a growing disenchantment with their NHL superstars doing little to change their place in the standings. Guys like Lecavalier and Richards don't exactly look ecstatic to be there in interviews, that's for sure.

Think so too, Can't see many US or Canadian Players.. playing long time in Russia..or even Austria.. or whatever..

i hope for the next weeks, but hope goes lesser every second..

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Old
12-22-2004, 05:49 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
WHat do you care?
If you think they are whiny primadonnas, why do you want to watch them in the NHL?
Completely backed into a corner are you? Answer the question. Where are these guys going to play where they can make this kind of scratch. They talk a tough game, but the reality of the situation is that they are grossly overpaid based on the world market and they have very few options (and those options are shrinking each day) where they can play other than the NHL.

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Old
12-23-2004, 07:32 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
And not just from the players' end...the fans of these leagues, while loving the superstars, are also finding out the rank-and-file NHLers aren't really much of a step up from what they're used to seeing.

You can be sure that the players are praying like crazy monks that the WHA's eventual "relaunch" will have some real money behind it. It might be their only chance at obtaining some leverage that doesn't pass as laughable at the moment.
Like Brian McCabe :lol

The WHA, as proposed the last time, was based on a very limited salary cap. :lol

The players are funny.

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Old
12-23-2004, 08:59 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madevilz
If they cancel the season, THEY BETTER return with a GREATLY improved league.


it won't matter because the sport will be all but dead in about half the markets in America. With the extra time they would have if it gets that far, they should look for markets to put teams currently existing in Anaheim, Carolina, Florida, Washington, Phoenix, Nashville, New Jersey, etc.

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Old
12-23-2004, 09:01 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
29 more Bill Wirtzes? :lol

Bettman has already said that the Blackhawks wouldn't qualify for revenue sharing if they were to even have it. Same goes for New Jersey and Anaheim.


But 29 other Bill Wirtzes may not be such a bad idea, he's probably one of the ones who makes money every year because he doesn't spend anything.

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Old
12-23-2004, 09:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
it won't matter because the sport will be all but dead in about half the markets in America. With the extra time they would have if it gets that far, they should look for markets to put teams currently existing in Anaheim, Carolina, Florida, Washington, Phoenix, Nashville, New Jersey, etc.
I agree, and I live in one of those markets. The game of hockey is a northern game and should be played in northern cities. Portland (Anaheim), Seattle (Phoenix), Winnipeg (Nasville), Hamilton (Florida), Quebec (Carolina) should be targets for some of the weaker markets should they start to struggle. Get the game back to its roots. Build it in these areas and get the game back to the level where it was a major sport and has the momentum to garner interest from a national broadcaster. Through the national broadcasts you the game will naturally grow. NASCAR grew because of the buzz created by the broadcasts of TNT and such. The NHL has to take the same approach and grow the game in markets where it will be successful. Forcing it into markets where it is an also ran sport is not going to get the stability and growth they want/need IMO.

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12-23-2004, 09:36 AM
  #45
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back to the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
No it was a half of season...the beginning of the 94 baseball season took place, then the rest of the season, the playoffs, and the world series were cancelled... The following year, MLB went to training camp with replacement players and were prepared to play the season with them, until everything was resolved

As simple as that, I think we'll all be surprised who wants to PLAY and crosses picket lines next year when training camps start. The players are losing the fight(this years salaries) and the war(next CBA).....they need new leadership and representation. The players aren't the game, they're employees just like the rest of us.....REALITY CHECK time fellas. :lol

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12-23-2004, 10:37 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
I can tell you what it is like from the 'burgh . . . perhaps the most union-oriented town in america at one time, and still having deep union roots. The sport columnists and fans are almost universally behind the owners in this fight. The roots may run union, but we got left holding the bag for hundreds of millions of dollars that we will be paying for decades to come with that beautiful baseball stadium, PNC Park, where they play minor league baseball and seem destined to always play minor league ball. We were promised otherwise by baseball when we voted for that Park. The sentiment for the players unions has soured completely in this town. The bad experience also has complicated the new arena for the Pens, though that seems to be able to go through on the back of slot machine revenues.
Why would the players be at fault because the owners don't want to spend the money to bring in UFAs or players that can make a difference? (Just asking not trying to pick a fight).

Bottom line, perception is that players are rich and spoiled. Everyone would love to play hockey in the NHL and would be willing to do so for $200,000.00 per year (figured pulled out of my behind). However, noone would pay to watch the majority of the posters here play anything. And why should the owners be the ones making the big dollars?

People always seem to feel that those who make big money, shouldn't. There is always resentment between the haves and the have nots (fans v. players and teams v teams). The players lost the war, because most of us look at them and wish we could do what they do. Based on our own income, I would imagine to be significantly smaller then the average NHL salary, we would be williing to do it for what we currently make.....

So when a player is getting 1 million to play a game, most of us shake our heads. But if you look at free market value - that should be, if owners set budgets for teams, what the player will make the team in revenue generation, at a minimum.

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Old
12-23-2004, 10:44 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
I agree, and I live in one of those markets. The game of hockey is a northern game and should be played in northern cities. Portland (Anaheim), Seattle (Phoenix), Winnipeg (Nasville), Hamilton (Florida), Quebec (Carolina) should be targets for some of the weaker markets should they start to struggle. Get the game back to its roots. Build it in these areas and get the game back to the level where it was a major sport and has the momentum to garner interest from a national broadcaster. Through the national broadcasts you the game will naturally grow. NASCAR grew because of the buzz created by the broadcasts of TNT and such. The NHL has to take the same approach and grow the game in markets where it will be successful. Forcing it into markets where it is an also ran sport is not going to get the stability and growth they want/need IMO.
If you check population trends, and if you live in one of those cities you will know, the southern cities have high populations of people who used to live in the northern cities and moved there. That is part of the NHL's approach and when those cities have had good teams they have been able to fill the rinks.

Winnipeg is a northern city but the population growth is minimal because the first thing that people do when they are old enough is to move somewhere else.

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12-23-2004, 10:47 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzy1
People always seem to feel that those who make big money, shouldn't. There is always resentment between the haves and the have nots (fans v. players and teams v teams). The players lost the war, because most of us look at them and wish we could do what they do.
Ahhh, yes. The Jealousy Card.

I've heard several pro-player people say this about fans that are against the players in this fight and it makes no sense. Why would I be resentful of a player who makes millions and not resentful of an owner who makes a hell of a lot more money?

The reason most people are on the side of the owners is simply because the NHL is in serious financial straits. The players make too much money given the current revenue streams for the league. This needs to be brought back into balance so the league can remain healthy and viable and, hopefully down the road, continue to build its audience.

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12-23-2004, 10:52 AM
  #49
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I think the doomsday scenario is overly dramatic. I think if things were that bad, the NHL would be more worried than they are with the current tough-stance and would be negotiating an end to this right now. The owners want their cost certainty, just like the other pro-sports teams. They'll worry about the fallout later. There will be fan fallout. We'll see arenas half-full in many cities as fans vent their displeasure. But the fans will recover and so will the sport. Just like in the other pro-sports after a work-stoppage. Otherwise the NHL's marketing gurus better quit now and they'll hire a more competent staff. I think they already have plans to try new things out to capture fan interest. But I agree that there will be a transition period that might prove difficult, moreso for some southern teams, than those in the colder hockey-friendly regions. But I think both sides have analysed the post-lockout period and already have a plan for hockey re-adaptation and recovery in mind. Otherwise they wouldn't be a very foresighted pro-sports league.

The NHL has weighed its options and figured it can survive the blast; otherwise their behaviour pattern would have to be very different from the one we see now.

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12-23-2004, 11:50 AM
  #50
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I think that hockey is trying to right itself before they get into absolutely dire straights. Things are likely bad but not desperate. I am not talking money so much as competitive balance. I could give a damn to be honest how a bunch of millionaires divide their money. But speaking of the game, competitive balance, teams in smaller and mid-sized markets can still compete even if the big market teams have the thumb on the scale quite a bit. However, the trend line is toward a sport just like baseball where the disparity is so great so as to destroy the sport in more than half the venues. I like that hockey is stepping in when that problem is just starting. I predict great growth of the sport if they can work this out.

ps, I hardly see the owners as altruistic 'we care only about the game' people. But their position happens to be what is best for the game so for now, I am wholeheartedly on their side.

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