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Old
06-01-2012, 10:26 AM
  #76
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
I agree with you, about Bourque. But not Kaberle. I just don't mind if he isn't physical, but the guy is actually AFRAID of getting hit and will play accordingly, thus making him a huge liability against teams with muscle.

Now, about Bourque, yes. He is pretty much exactly what we need more of. Big, tough, fast guys who can score. He has no problem going to the net and scoring garbage goals, etc. People really need to give him a chance.
Kaberle has never been a mauler in his own end, but I think his "afraid of physical contact" thing is a bit overblown. Maybe he wasn't as invested both mentally and physically last year, but I saw that guy with Toronto(only 16 months ago) and he was not only very good with the puck and on offense but above average defensively in the mold of Mrakov and Lidstrom, using his body and stick actively to break up plays and prevent guys from getting to the net. His defensive play last yaer was a step down from that, though his offense was up to normal levels in his time with the Habs, I think if he stays here(plan B if we can't get Jackman Allen etc) then we need a coach to get him back on track(or we may not even need it from the coach as he will surely be extra motivated to bounce back).

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06-01-2012, 10:29 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
I agree with you, about Bourque. But not Kaberle. I just don't mind if he isn't physical, but the guy is actually AFRAID of getting hit and will play accordingly, thus making him a huge liability against teams with muscle.

Now, about Bourque, yes. He is pretty much exactly what we need more of. Big, tough, fast guys who can score. He has no problem going to the net and scoring garbage goals, etc. People really need to give him a chance.
I think it might be the year where we need to get some return fro these assets. As much as Kaberle is soft, there are some aspects of his game that are still useful. If we could find the right partner for him perhaps we could use him on the PP with Markov or something along the lines. Let him pile up points without taking to much responsibilities to at least give the impression he is back into form. Then when come the time trade him. It's all about making him attractive to another team looking for an offensive Dmen. That could give just enough time for Ellis or Beaulieu to get there feet wet in the AHL and be ready for a call up towards the end of the year.

Bourque I think we can do something with his assets. He is a fast skater for his size and I think he needs motivation more then anything else. I think he could do just as well as Pacioretty beside DD next season.

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06-01-2012, 01:50 PM
  #78
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I actually prefer Gomez.

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06-01-2012, 01:58 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I think it might be the year where we need to get some return fro these assets. As much as Kaberle is soft, there are some aspects of his game that are still useful. If we could find the right partner for him perhaps we could use him on the PP with Markov or something along the lines. Let him pile up points without taking to much responsibilities to at least give the impression he is back into form. Then when come the time trade him. It's all about making him attractive to another team looking for an offensive Dmen. That could give just enough time for Ellis or Beaulieu to get there feet wet in the AHL and be ready for a call up towards the end of the year.

Bourque I think we can do something with his assets. He is a fast skater for his size and I think he needs motivation more then anything else. I think he could do just as well as Pacioretty beside DD next season.
Agreed.

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06-01-2012, 02:00 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kaberle has never been a mauler in his own end, but I think his "afraid of physical contact" thing is a bit overblown. Maybe he wasn't as invested both mentally and physically last year, but I saw that guy with Toronto(only 16 months ago) and he was not only very good with the puck and on offense but above average defensively in the mold of Mrakov and Lidstrom, using his body and stick actively to break up plays and prevent guys from getting to the net. His defensive play last yaer was a step down from that, though his offense was up to normal levels in his time with the Habs, I think if he stays here(plan B if we can't get Jackman Allen etc) then we need a coach to get him back on track(or we may not even need it from the coach as he will surely be extra motivated to bounce back).
I think that's asking a lot for a guy like Kaberle, especially considering the is a guy in the twilight of his career.

That said, I'd love to bump this post in a few months from now and say how wrong I was.. we'll see.

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06-01-2012, 02:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
I think that's asking a lot for a guy like Kaberle, especially considering the is a guy in the twilight of his career.

That said, I'd love to bump this post in a few months from now and say how wrong I was.. we'll see.
Cole just had the best year of his career at 32, so I wouldn't say it's the "twilight" of Kaberle's career. 32-33-34-35 year old guys still ahve a lot in the tank nowadays unless they have had injury on top of injury and they can do it physically. Kaberle just needs to show up in shape and focused and I'm sure his play will improive 50%.

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06-01-2012, 03:09 PM
  #82
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Will probably pot close to 50 points next season. He played fine this season aswell but there is only so much a passer can do when the players you setup can't hit the broad side of a barn.

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06-01-2012, 03:14 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Cole just had the best year of his career at 32, so I wouldn't say it's the "twilight" of Kaberle's career. 32-33-34-35 year old guys still ahve a lot in the tank nowadays unless they have had injury on top of injury and they can do it physically. Kaberle just needs to show up in shape and focused and I'm sure his play will improive 50%.
Yeah but Cole was always good! Come on! It's not the same thing! For Kaberle sure he can get 50 points but if he costs us couple of hundred scoring chances & ends up -50 also, then he's an expensive Power-Play guy.

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06-01-2012, 03:25 PM
  #84
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If he actually works out with Plekanec then he should at least show up at camp in good shape, which is something that did not happen last year. Pleks is a work-out beast. The opportunity is there for Kaberle to be an offensive contributor next year. If he's in shape then he can still put up 45 pts. He needs to play with a physical D-partner though.

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06-01-2012, 03:34 PM
  #85
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Kaberle was fine offensively, and I expect better things from him and a more cohesive role this year. Haters will always hate, though.

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06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Kaberle was fine offensively, and I expect better things from him and a more cohesive role this year. Haters will always hate, though.
Still a 1 way player. You could get Souray for half or less, get about the same points & he wont cost you in your end. MAB could also do the PP for 1 million bucks!

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06-01-2012, 03:54 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Kaberle was fine offensively, and I expect better things from him and a more cohesive role this year. Haters will always hate, though.
I agree, he was good at leeching PP time and making it predictable.

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06-01-2012, 04:00 PM
  #88
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Of course none of this would matter if the NHL didn't have a CAP. But it does, so it's all the cities problem.

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06-01-2012, 04:35 PM
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Still a 1 way player. You could get Souray for half or less, get about the same points & he wont cost you in your end. MAB could also do the PP for 1 million bucks!
So you are whining about 2million? Whatever will we do? We need the cap to go up to 100million to fit him in!1!23#$$@#$

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I agree, he was good at leeching PP time and making it predictable.
The hockey IQ around here is astounding.

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06-01-2012, 04:37 PM
  #90
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So much ignorant hate. Jeez.

With a possession coach (not Crawford, Therrien or Carbonneau) he'll be an asset and be fair value for his ~50 points. Otherwise he's gonna look bad and overpaid.

Really depends on the coach we get, that's why I hesitate to predict roster moves until it's settled.

The posters who are blindly hating and making up false narratives are just venting their frustration but seriously, he's a six-ft-something NHL defenseman if he was afraid of getting hit he never would've made it in the NHL. You forget yourselves when you post from behind the keyboard, eh?

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06-01-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
So you are whining about 2million? Whatever will we do? We need the cap to go up to 100million to fit him in!1!23#$$@#$



The hockey IQ around here is astounding.
I'm not at all. I'm saying Kaberle is ****, Crap since **** will get hexed out!

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06-01-2012, 04:51 PM
  #92
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I'm not at all. I'm saying Kaberle is ****, Crap since **** will get hexed out!
That crap hasn't gone below 30 points since his rookie season and hit 67 points with the maple leafs. He has been in the NHL for 13 years and never played less than 57 games. The only time he has ever been considered anything less than a top pairing dman is when he was traded to a new team and failed to adjust. Then he was given a whole 29 games to adjust to another team while being constantly badmouthed in the press. We got him for a fringe NHL player who we considered overpaid. His career stats has him over 0.5ppg and a +13 which is unreal considering he spent most of his career on a team that allowed "walk-ins" for their goalie position.

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06-01-2012, 05:45 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
So much ignorant hate. Jeez.

With a possession coach (not Crawford, Therrien or Carbonneau) he'll be an asset and be fair value for his ~50 points. Otherwise he's gonna look bad and overpaid.

Really depends on the coach we get, that's why I hesitate to predict roster moves until it's settled.

The posters who are blindly hating and making up false narratives are just venting their frustration but seriously, he's a six-ft-something NHL defenseman if he was afraid of getting hit he never would've made it in the NHL. You forget yourselves when you post from behind the keyboard, eh?
Hey only Markov is allowed to be a soft defenseman on this team!

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06-01-2012, 05:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Will probably pot close to 50 points next season.
In the NHL??

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06-01-2012, 06:02 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
That crap hasn't gone below 30 points since his rookie season and hit 67 points with the maple leafs. He has been in the NHL for 13 years and never played less than 57 games. The only time he has ever been considered anything less than a top pairing dman is when he was traded to a new team and failed to adjust. Then he was given a whole 29 games to adjust to another team while being constantly badmouthed in the press. We got him for a fringe NHL player who we considered overpaid. His career stats has him over 0.5ppg and a +13 which is unreal considering he spent most of his career on a team that allowed "walk-ins" for their goalie position.
The problem, as I see it, is that you are evaluating Kaberle primarily on his offensive contributions. With Markov and Subban ahead of him on the depth chart, you could realistically see his PP time cut in half which could cut his PP scoring in half. That means he could easily go from averaging close to 50 points per year to something closer to 30 points.

Since the lockout he has not been a plus player at even strength. Of course he has been on some weak teams but he has been part of those weak teams... in other words, contributing to the weakness. If management and the coaching staff feel they can keep a part time power play specialist on the roster then Kaberle is not a bad option (except for his contract) but let's not count him filling the role of a two-way defenseman that the team needs so badly.

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06-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #96
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If he can do a Spacek and get into shape, why not, just hope he does it elsewhere and we get someone better instead.

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06-01-2012, 07:59 PM
  #97
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If he can do a Spacek and get into shape, why not, just hope he does it elsewhere and we get someone better instead.
When did Spacek ever get in shape? Just because he claimed to be in shape this year doesn't mean it was true. Spacek was terribly out of shape in all 2.5 seasons with the Habs, it was clear as day.

Still though, the dude could probably out run me, but that's only because I'm hindered due to my diet of whiskey and drugs and getting annoyed at HF board posters.

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06-01-2012, 08:02 PM
  #98
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When did Spacek ever get in shape? Just because he claimed to be in shape this year doesn't mean it was true. Spacek was terribly out of shape in all 2.5 seasons with the Habs, it was clear as day.

Still though, the dude could probably out run me, but that's only because I'm hindered due to my diet of whiskey and drugs and getting annoyed at HF board posters.
He was definetly a step quicker last season. He did get into shape, coaching staff mentioned it at the camp last year. Not just his aveux about slacking on his daily intake of booze.

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06-01-2012, 08:34 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Cole just had the best year of his career at 32, so I wouldn't say it's the "twilight" of Kaberle's career. 32-33-34-35 year old guys still ahve a lot in the tank nowadays unless they have had injury on top of injury and they can do it physically. Kaberle just needs to show up in shape and focused and I'm sure his play will improive 50%.
Those who do, usually look like it when they play. If Kaberle still has lots left in the tank, it's because he used very little of "it" last season.

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06-01-2012, 11:29 PM
  #100
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The problem, as I see it, is that you are evaluating Kaberle primarily on his offensive contributions. With Markov and Subban ahead of him on the depth chart, you could realistically see his PP time cut in half which could cut his PP scoring in half. That means he could easily go from averaging close to 50 points per year to something closer to 30 points.

Since the lockout he has not been a plus player at even strength. Of course he has been on some weak teams but he has been part of those weak teams... in other words, contributing to the weakness. If management and the coaching staff feel they can keep a part time power play specialist on the roster then Kaberle is not a bad option (except for his contract) but let's not count him filling the role of a two-way defenseman that the team needs so badly.
Neither Subban or Markov are sure bets. Subban stunk up most of the year on the powerplay and who knows about Markov and how long we will have him healthy. Kaberle is an excellent passer and did a fine job lining up guys on the powerplay only to watch countless shots fired into the boards.

No one thought he was going to be a two way defenseman, if you did you should have watched some hockey in the last 10 years. His defensive game is fine and when paired with a proper partner he does exactly what we need him to do, that is start the transition and move the puck. But I am sure some people here are angry he doesn't throw big hits or some nonsense.

Kaberle will almost definitly be on the first powerplay unit, you always split up your top two guys to have a more balanced attack. Putting Kaberle with Weber or some other plug is downright idiotic.

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He was definetly a step quicker last season. He did get into shape, coaching staff mentioned it at the camp last year. Not just his aveux about slacking on his daily intake of booze.
I see the revisionist history machine is already rolling. How long before "gomez was awesome until gauthier got a hold of him!"?

The only thing spacek was quick at was shooting his mouth off.

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