HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Holzer over Schenn

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-31-2012, 08:51 PM
  #1
G51 K81*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,556
vCash: 500
Holzer over Schenn

First off I just want to say I liked Luke Schenn in previous years and acknowledge that Schenn had a "off" season last year.

Imo Holzer is currently playing at a level where Schenn could be next season. Comparing raw attributes:

Shot - Holzer
Speed - Holzer
Puck Control - Holzer
Passing - Holzer
Hitting - Debatable
Fighting - Holzer
Positioning - Holzer

Now I know a lot of people are going to say that Schenn has been playing in the NHL while Holzer is playing in the AHL. A lot of the attributes listed above do not change from the jump from AHL to NHL (positioning and puck control could be gauged better at the NHL for Holzer, but I do not believe it would be a big problem). Holzer has essentially been anchoring this Marlies group to the finals with his solid defensive play and his intimidating demeanor, solidifying the top PK in the playoffs. These results are extremely impressive considering the quality of hockey at the AHL playoff level.

This makes Schenn expendable this summer. We simply cannot afford for Schenn to have an off year. Not only will it hurt his trade value but when Schenn is off his game, he hurts the team. I do think Schenn can turn his game around, but in doing so, can his level of play exceed the level Holzer is currently playing at? Imo, No.

G51 K81* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 08:52 PM
  #2
Flowzak
I saw, I conquered.
 
Flowzak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
One does have to think that the speed of the game at the NHL level is faster than the AHL level. Holzer looking great down in the minors does not necessarily equate to the same level of NHL success. I would not give up on Schenn just because we assume Holzer can replace him.

Flowzak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 08:56 PM
  #3
QMJHLfollower
Heart and soul
 
QMJHLfollower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,168
vCash: 500
I can't beleive how people are giving up fast on Schenn.

We need to keep Schenn, he's the real deal and will be a very solid defenseman.

And OP, you may like Holzer more than Schenn, but Schenn is a better hitter than Holzer and it's not even close.

QMJHLfollower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 08:56 PM
  #4
DeputyMcLaren
Registered User
 
DeputyMcLaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kingston Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Holzer one day is gonna be a beast in the NHL, but Schenn has far to much upside to just give up on. 2 years ago people were calling him the captain to be. I think with Carlyles system Schenns gonna have a huge bounce back season and be back on pace to be the player we drafted. As for your chart comparing the two for Hitting Luke is head and shoulders above Holzer.

DeputyMcLaren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 08:56 PM
  #5
DeputyMcLaren
Registered User
 
DeputyMcLaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kingston Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
I can't beleive how people are giving up fast on Schenn.

We need to keep Schenn, he's the real deal and will be a very solid defenseman.

And OP, you may hate Schenn, but Schenn is a better hitter than Holzer and it's not even close.
My bad you beat me to the punch

DeputyMcLaren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 08:58 PM
  #6
Kamal007
God Level
 
Kamal007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,298
vCash: 50
Holzer is a borderline NHL'er with the possibility of being a bottom 2 defender. Schenn is a bottom 2 defender that HAS been a top 4 defender and has the possiblity of being top 2 defender.

I'm sorry but they aren't close.

Kamal007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:06 PM
  #7
G51 K81*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,556
vCash: 500
Let's say hypothetically Holzer's game translates smoothly into the NHL, and he turns out to be the same shut-down defenseman as in the AHL that is also excellent on the PK.

Again, hypothetically Schenn regains his form and plays like he did a couple seasons ago.

How big of a difference will we see between the 2 of them?

G51 K81* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:06 PM
  #8
Michael Gary Scott
Toronto Maple Tron's
 
Michael Gary Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,921
vCash: 50
Funny, no one had a boner for holzer before Elliott Freidman made that rumor.

Michael Gary Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:06 PM
  #9
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
First off I just want to say I liked Luke Schenn in previous years and acknowledge that Schenn had a "off" season last year.

Imo Holzer is currently playing at a level where Schenn could be next season. Comparing raw attributes:

Shot - Holzer
Speed - Holzer
Puck Control - Holzer
Passing - Holzer
Hitting - Debatable
Fighting - Holzer
Positioning - Holzer

Now I know a lot of people are going to say that Schenn has been playing in the NHL while Holzer is playing in the AHL. A lot of the attributes listed above do not change from the jump from AHL to NHL (positioning and puck control could be gauged better at the NHL for Holzer, but I do not believe it would be a big problem). Holzer has essentially been anchoring this Marlies group to the finals with his solid defensive play and his intimidating demeanor, solidifying the top PK in the playoffs. These results are extremely impressive considering the quality of hockey at the AHL playoff level.

This makes Schenn expendable this summer. We simply cannot afford for Schenn to have an off year. Not only will it hurt his trade value but when Schenn is off his game, he hurts the team. I do think Schenn can turn his game around, but in doing so, can his level of play exceed the level Holzer is currently playing at? Imo, No.
Glad you are impressed with the quality of AHL hockey in the playoffs, but i'm affraid to tell you it is not near the same level as the NHL. Holzer IMHO has a chance to be an NHLer, but to suggest he can replace Schenn and play more effectively is not only a massive reach, it is ignorant.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:08 PM
  #10
G51 K81*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
Funny, no one had a boner for holzer before Elliott Freidman made that rumor.
Also, I'm not one of the guys that speculates on players based on articles or stats I read. I've seen about a dozen marlies games over the past 2 seasons and I have always liked what i saw.

G51 K81* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:09 PM
  #11
Drew311
Catch The Taste
 
Drew311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,807
vCash: 500
If Schenn puts in the work he needs this summer, especially with the new skating coach, I don't think Schenn and Holzer will continue to be comparable.

Drew311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:10 PM
  #12
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,427
vCash: 500
In other news Phillipe Dupuis is a PPG player and # 7 overall in AHL playoff scoring.

What is next a thread about how Mckegg can take Kessels spot because he scored at a better PPG rate in the OHL this season.

Ricky Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:15 PM
  #13
WildcatMapleLeafs28
Registered User
 
WildcatMapleLeafs28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,832
vCash: 500
Schenn is a solid young dman. Sure there are some holes in his game but he is far from finished when it comes to developing.IMO, I hopee that Schenn stays put and dosnt get traded. Why trade him when his value is at an all-time low.Watch if he dosnt have a great year with the likes of Carlyle behind the bench. All he needs to do is keep it simple. When he over tries , thats when he gets exposed. Ron Wilson pushed him too much, and put too muchb pressure on him. I say he will excel with Carlyle.

WildcatMapleLeafs28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:23 PM
  #14
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Please. Holzer is not where Schenn is.

Imo, Schenn will have a great year.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:23 PM
  #15
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Schenn is a solid young dman. Sure there are some holes in his game but he is far from finished when it comes to developing.IMO, I hopee that Schenn stays put and dosnt get traded. Why trade him when his value is at an all-time low.Watch if he dosnt have a great year with the likes of Carlyle behind the bench. All he needs to do is keep it simple. When he over tries , thats when he gets exposed. Ron Wilson pushed him too much, and put too muchb pressure on him. I say he will excel with Carlyle.
If you can trade him for a young top 6 forward sure, but otherwise keep him and hope a light goes on in the summer and he comes back dramatically quicker.

No sense trading him for scraps that you can just sign in the off season.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:25 PM
  #16
NoTouchIcing
Registered User
 
NoTouchIcing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Libya
Posts: 2,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
I can't beleive how people are giving up fast on Schenn.
Really? We've gone through the same BS every single year.


Gunnarsson can replace Schenn.

Aulie can replace Schenn.

Holzer can replace Schenn.

Any every single time it's been tragically off.

NoTouchIcing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:27 PM
  #17
agropop
Registered User
 
agropop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,223
vCash: 500
considering Holzer has never played a game in the NHL....

agropop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:28 PM
  #18
G51 K81*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,556
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Glad you are impressed with the quality of AHL hockey in the playoffs, but i'm affraid to tell you it is not near the same level as the NHL. Holzer IMHO has a chance to be an NHLer, but to suggest he can replace Schenn and play more effectively is not only a massive reach, it is ignorant.
Not saying it's the same level, just that a player like Holzer would translate smoother to the NHL then, for example, Kadri. I do not think it is even that big of a reach saying the best defensive player on a top 2 AHL team is close to the worst defensive player (this year) on the 5th worst NHL team.

Again, I am not saying we should trade Schenn because hes terrible and will never be good again. The trade Schenn part was merely a suggestion to take a position of strength (defensive) and upgrade a position of weakness (forwards). I'd be equally happy if Schenn regained his form and we have both Holzer and Schenn.

G51 K81* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:36 PM
  #19
NoTouchIcing
Registered User
 
NoTouchIcing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Libya
Posts: 2,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
Not saying it's the same level, just that a player like Holzer would translate smoother to the NHL then, for example, Kadri. I do not think it is even that big of a reach saying the best defensive player on a top 2 AHL team is close to the worst defensive player (this year) on the 5th worst NHL team.
This point is totally irrelevant.

NoTouchIcing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:41 PM
  #20
Michael Gary Scott
Toronto Maple Tron's
 
Michael Gary Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,921
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by agropop View Post
considering Holzer has never played a game in the NHL....
False.

Michael Gary Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:42 PM
  #21
Mansfield
possession obsession
 
Mansfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,822
vCash: 500
This thread is ridiculous. Playing in the AHL and the NHL are two completely different things. If schenn was in the AHL this year he'd probably be the best defenseman in the league.

Sure, holzer could be better than Schenn. I'll believe it when he's had three full nhl seasons like schenn has.

Mansfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:44 PM
  #22
agropop
Registered User
 
agropop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
False.
guess so.... I remember him getting called up a couple times but not dressing.... my bad.

agropop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:50 PM
  #23
NoTouchIcing
Registered User
 
NoTouchIcing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Libya
Posts: 2,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agropop View Post
guess so.... I remember him getting called up a couple times but not dressing.... my bad.
2010-2011 I believe.

NoTouchIcing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:53 PM
  #24
Funk Volume
Independent Living
 
Funk Volume's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Welland, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTouchIcing View Post
2010-2011 I believe.
this past season as well.

Funk Volume is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-31-2012, 09:56 PM
  #25
NoTouchIcing
Registered User
 
NoTouchIcing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Libya
Posts: 2,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Ball Hockey View Post
this past season as well.
He didn't dress for a game this season.

NoTouchIcing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.