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Holzer over Schenn

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Old
06-01-2012, 12:50 AM
  #51
Leafidelity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
Who gives a **** about hits if he's consistently a minus player who can barely skate?

This isn't the clutch and grab NHL anymore, Defending is done by positioning, speed and puck movement. Look at Vancouver's defense, Show me a defensemen there who is slow and can't make at very least a decent first pass? Alberts may be the only one.


You're making a big fuss out of something any plug with a body temperature of 98 degrees can do and looking right over some of the glaring problems he has.
Any reason you chose Vancouver? LA is in the finals and they have Greene and Mitchell who play a similar game to Schenn.

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06-01-2012, 12:53 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
Who gives a **** about hits if he's consistently a minus player who can barely skate?

This isn't the clutch and grab NHL anymore, Defending is done by positioning, speed and puck movement. Look at Vancouver's defense, Show me a defensemen there who is slow and can't make at very least a decent first pass? Alberts may be the only one.


You're making a big fuss out of something any plug with a body temperature of 98 degrees can do and looking right over some of the glaring problems he has.
Lots of brillaint nuggets in your post; your expletive tells alot. Last time; how can a player who "can't skate" lead all defenceman in the NHL in hits? Here is a little hint for you, in order to hit people, mobility and positioning is an important asset.

According to your description, pretty much anyone here could be an NHLer according to you? Truly amazing how a player with no mobilty and speed, and who can't even skate, always leads all defencemen in the NHL (even the lighter weight mobile ones that can skate, as you described earluer) in hits? Truly amazing.... Your avatar is very accurate, you are most certainlly a rare one indeed.

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06-01-2012, 12:59 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Leafidelity View Post
Any reason you chose Vancouver? LA is in the finals and they have Greene and Mitchell who play a similar game to Schenn.
Detroit then.


Mitchell at least can make good first passes, Greene is more of your prototypical mean, crease clearing, stay at home guy. But that's not what I want Schenn to turn out to be. I want more of a Marc Staal clone.

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06-01-2012, 01:26 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Lots of brillaint nuggets in your post; your expletive tells alot. Last time; how can a player who "can't skate" lead all defenceman in the NHL in hits? Here is a little hint for you, in order to hit people, mobility and positioning is an important asset.

According to your description, pretty much anyone here could be an NHLer according to you? Truly amazing how a player with no mobilty and speed, and who can't even skate, always leads all defencemen in the NHL (even the lighter weight mobile ones that can skate, as you described earluer) in hits? Truly amazing.... Your avatar is very accurate, you are most certainlly a rare one indeed.

Yes that's exactly what I meant. Any Joe blow can strap on a pair of skates and play in the NHL.

Of course I didn't. I thought that the minimal requirement of at least being a professional hockey player at least the calibre of AHL player did not need to be stated. Turns out I was wrong.


But you don't seem to think Schenn has skating/mobility issues, I do.

You seem to place a high premium on hits, I don't.

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06-01-2012, 01:28 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
First off I just want to say I liked Luke Schenn in previous years and acknowledge that Schenn had a "off" season last year.

Imo Holzer is currently playing at a level where Schenn could be next season. Comparing raw attributes:

Shot - Holzer Wrong
Speed - Holzer Debatable
Puck Control - Holzer I'll give you this one
Passing - Holzer Wrong
Hitting - Debatable Not even ****ing close to right
Fighting - Holzer You've got jokes...
Positioning - Holzer Also wrong. Schenn isn't necessarily in bad position, he just can't skate well enough at this point to STAY in good position.

Now I know a lot of people are going to say that Schenn has been playing in the NHL while Holzer is playing in the AHL. A lot of the attributes listed above do not change from the jump from AHL to NHL (positioning and puck control could be gauged better at the NHL for Holzer, but I do not believe it would be a big problem). Holzer has essentially been anchoring this Marlies group to the finals with his solid defensive play and his intimidating demeanor, solidifying the top PK in the playoffs. These results are extremely impressive considering the quality of hockey at the AHL playoff level.

This makes Schenn expendable this summer. We simply cannot afford for Schenn to have an off year. Not only will it hurt his trade value but when Schenn is off his game, he hurts the team. I do think Schenn can turn his game around, but in doing so, can his level of play exceed the level Holzer is currently playing at? Imo, No.
Are you on drugs, man?

Holzer has barely seen NHL Ice. Schenn's still got LOTS of developing to do, under great defensive coaches, and one of the best skating coaches there is.

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06-01-2012, 03:07 AM
  #56
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We have to realize the bargaining power we have..

If Philly wont pay JVR plus their first,ship him to Pitts where he will be crippling Philly's players for years.We have nothing to lose,pay up Philly or face the "eraser" for years.Last chance...


Last edited by darrylsittler27: 06-01-2012 at 03:28 AM.
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06-01-2012, 03:20 AM
  #57
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Creating a bit of a false dilemma here. How about having Holzer and Schenn on the back end?

If anything Holzer's emergence makes Komisarek expendable, not Schenn.

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06-01-2012, 08:57 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Predaleafs View Post
Heres a fun fact: Out of the 2008 entry draft

Luke Schenn ranks 3rd in Games Played: Top Ten

Steven Stamkos-325
Drew Doughty-316
Luke Schenn-310
Josh Bailey-291
Zach Bogosian-264
Tyler Myers-217
Erik Karlson-216
Mikkel Boedker-208
Micheal Del Zotto-204
Luca Sbisa-195

Again he is on pace with the rest of his draft class in this aspect. If he was as bad as everyone says common sense says he would have been benched or sent down

He ranks 8th in his draft class among defence for goals! He averages 3.7 goals a season yes that seems bad to all the people who only look at stats but here is how many people tied his 2 goals for on D:

Anton Volchenkov,Scott Hannon,Paul Martin, Zybnek Michalek,Adam Larsson (yea i know hes a rookie but people need to stop looking at stats.

Make it better if Schenn hits his average of 3-4 goals he ties:

Matt Greene,Mark Stuart,Tomas Kaberle,Rusty Klesla,Braden Coburn,Erik Johnson.

Id say for a guy being paid not to score he does an average job at it.

Luke Schenn led the league amongst D in hits with 270, finished 21st in giveaways with 58 (behind Chara Karlsson Doughty Yandle, all all stars yet not crucified for his give away) and tied for 38 in take aways (tied with Chara,Letang Del Zotto)

point is he is not near as bad as everyone here likes to think. He was in a system that he had no meaning playing in. His stick skills are below par but that doesnt mean that he is horrible it means in a system like RC where defence reigns he will shine, just like komisarek. Schenn on one play can make a huge play to pick the puck up and lose it and everyone will remember the bad. Let him play, in my eyes we got another Dmitri Yuskevich on our hands. Him with Gardiner helps Gardiner. You partner him with a player like Phaneuf (i know the play the same side I said a player like) and we may have a great tandem here!!!

Holzer is nowhere near Schenn. Theres a reason why Dupuis cant get a point up here yet ppg in the AHL, Zigomanis 4th line up here, all star in the AHL. You see you cant compare two players in different leagues.
LOL

you just loaded this post with stats and we're should stop looking at stats?!

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06-01-2012, 09:01 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DarwinWasAdopted View Post
Creating a bit of a false dilemma here. How about having Holzer and Schenn on the back end?

If anything Holzer's emergence makes Komisarek expendable, not Schenn.
I understand that mode of thinking completely. I have some thoughts:

Komi's contract is hard to move.
Schenn is absolute horse **** on the left side of the D. Holzer is better on that right side and is a better defenseman than Schenn. You can't move Dion either.

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06-01-2012, 09:03 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
I understand that mode of thinking completely. I have some thoughts:

Komi's contract is hard to move.
Schenn is absolute horse **** on the left side of the D. Holzer is better on that right side and is a better defenseman than Schenn. You can't move Dion either.
Calyle and Team Canada have been playing Phaneuf on the left side already.. I think Carlyle wants to keep him there with the idea it will be easier for him to get his shot off and much quicker.

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06-01-2012, 09:06 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Calyle and Team Canada have been playing Phaneuf on the left side already.. I think Carlyle wants to keep him there with the idea it will be easier for him to get his shot off and much quicker.
This might be factual, but you're asking Dion to play on the left now that he did it for a few games in a tourney?

What about his entire career of playing on the right?

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06-01-2012, 09:08 AM
  #62
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Also you're talking about a major shake up in the leafs' d if he starts playing on the left:

Gunn L
Liles L
Gardiner L
Dion L ?

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06-01-2012, 09:12 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
This might be factual, but you're asking Dion to play on the left now that he did it for a few games in a tourney?

What about his entire career of playing on the right?
Pretty sure at the end of the year Carlyle had him playing there as well.

Honestly though, on the PP he is great from the right circle. In the All-Star game, and during the season, he's nailed almost every shot he took from that spot. Not sure why he doesn't use it more often.

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06-01-2012, 09:46 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Also you're talking about a major shake up in the leafs' d if he starts playing on the left:

Gunn L
Liles L
Gardiner L
Dion L ?
Dion should be playing the left side. Carlyle likes him there and so do I. Gunnarsson likely the odd man out. I`d rather it be Liles though.

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06-01-2012, 09:56 AM
  #65
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I don't think Gunn is going anywhere and I'm going to ignore any reports that Dion will now be playing on the left side from now on.

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06-01-2012, 09:57 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
Detroit then.


Mitchell at least can make good first passes, Greene is more of your prototypical mean, crease clearing, stay at home guy. But that's not what I want Schenn to turn out to be. I want more of a Marc Staal clone.
Teams usually don't draft Willie Mitchells and Andy Greenes with top five picks. Their value really comes when they're grizzled veterans who have had tons of experience, and to a team trying to turn it around, the growing pains don't really justify what you get at the end of the day, maybe 8-10 years after you pick them. There's defenders like that readily available to be had. Just like Luke Richardson was a bad top ten pick even though he was a useful NHLer for a long time, Schenn will be a bad one if he can't be a Marc Staal clone, like you say.

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06-01-2012, 10:16 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DarwinWasAdopted View Post
Creating a bit of a false dilemma here. How about having Holzer and Schenn on the back end?

If anything Holzer's emergence makes Komisarek expendable, not Schenn.
This - I can't believe how many 13 year olds are giving up on Schenn already. Obviously people around here either haven't played hockey (or any sport for that matter) where they play under a head coach they dont like. Confidence is a BIG factor in how you look on the ice.


Schenn will be more than fine under Randy

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06-01-2012, 10:26 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by NoTouchIcing View Post
Really? We've gone through the same BS every single year.


Gunnarsson can replace Schenn.

Aulie can replace Schenn.

Holzer can replace Schenn.

Any every single time it's been tragically off.

...not on this team he can't. The trade deadline says hi!

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06-01-2012, 10:30 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
This - I can't believe how many 13 year olds are giving up on Schenn already. Obviously people around here either haven't played hockey (or any sport for that matter) where they play under a head coach they dont like. Confidence is a BIG factor in how you look on the ice.


Schenn will be more than fine under Randy
I don't know how else to state it. You have to create an adverse relationship because:

1) spots are limited
2) money is always a factor
3) this team is a loser
4) everyone is subject to movement (including demotions)

Hockey and supporting players is so subjective. You can't just accuse fans for "hating" a player who has played inconsistent and lost many games on the end of his stick. No Burke doesn't have to do anything hasty, but don't be surprised if Schenn gets shipped out when he's still not playing well under a Carlyle system.

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06-01-2012, 11:16 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
I don't know how else to state it. You have to create an adverse relationship because:

1) spots are limited
2) money is always a factor
3) this team is a loser
4) everyone is subject to movement (including demotions)

Hockey and supporting players is so subjective. You can't just accuse fans for "hating" a player who has played inconsistent and lost many games on the end of his stick. No Burke doesn't have to do anything hasty, but don't be surprised if Schenn gets shipped out when he's still not playing well under a Carlyle system.
I wont be a bit surprised to see Schenn traded this summer; however, if he isn't I dont think he's a player we write off, like many on here have already done.

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06-01-2012, 11:25 AM
  #71
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Holzer over Schenn?

This is why we can't have nice things. I'd much rather keep both. I see Holzer as a more likely replacement for Gunnar, if anyone.

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06-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #72
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Schenn ERASES!!!








Our leads ...

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06-01-2012, 11:37 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
I understand that mode of thinking completely. I have some thoughts:

Komi's contract is hard to move.
Schenn is absolute horse **** on the left side of the D. Holzer is better on that right side and is a better defenseman than Schenn. You can't move Dion either.
LOL

Yes, one is a good Dman in the AHL, so he should replace the 22 year old who has shown way higher potential in the NHL.

While we are at it, who needs a number 1 C? Let's just have Dupuis replace all of our C's and move to the top of the depth chart.... lol

I have a strong feeling Schenn will be much better next year, and by the time he has played two more NHL seasons and he is 24, he will be far better than Holzer (24) looking good in the AHL.

Not that I don't think Holzer should get a shot in the near future, it's just foolish to be thinking he should replace our NHL dmen because of it. Especially someone with Luke's potential.

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06-01-2012, 11:41 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by toronto murphy laws View Post
Holzer over Schenn?

This is why we can't have nice things. I'd much rather keep both. I see Holzer as a more likely replacement for Gunnar, if anyone.
Yep, this probably.

Use Gunnar as trade bait.

I also suspect Dion might play the Left side this year.
He was playing it at the WHC, and at the end of the day, it's much easier for him.

Sure, he won't get to rip One-Tee's even strength, but that's fine. He can save that for the PP. He doesn't generate much more offence from that anyway.


Phaneuf - Franson??
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Komi

That's not bad if they play to their ability.

Maybe get Gunnar/Holzer/ Schultz in there if we trade one or more of those guys.

There is just way more flexibility with Dion on LD with our current group.

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06-01-2012, 11:43 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by toronto murphy laws View Post
Holzer over Schenn?

This is why we can't have nice things. I'd much rather keep both. I see Holzer as a more likely replacement for Gunnar, if anyone.
Why is this? Gunnarsson is a steadier defenseman and Schenn is the weakest link as of this season.

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