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List of candidates for Assistant GM's and Coach Part X

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06-02-2012, 11:19 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
Would just like to remember everyone that Bob Hartley, that mediocre French coach being "pushed down our throats by l'antichambre" and only getting a look at in Montréal because he is French when so many better names float around, has just been deemed the best candidate available by another team.

:shocked:
I think a big reason why he was a front runner for a lot of people is that he was the one francophone ex-coach out there right now that another team might consider hiring.

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06-02-2012, 11:21 PM
  #302
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I'll throw this outthere, who would like the coach finding process to be thrown out so they can start over? Let's try finding great coachs that don't have to be the same two-three guys. I don't understand why they stuck to same limited obvious ones. Of course the guy can be bilingual but let's consider others, let's think about Groulx, let's think about the assistants in Tampa, let's open the landscape to find that gem.

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06-02-2012, 11:22 PM
  #303
Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I'll throw this outthere, who would like the coach finding process to be thrown out so they can start over? Let's try finding great coachs that don't have to be the same two-three guys. I don't understand why they stuck to same limited obvious ones. Of course the guy can be bilingual but let's consider others, let's think about Groulx, let's think about the assistants in Tampa, let's open the landscape to find that gem.
> Experienced
> Bilingual

Am I missing anything?

I think those are the criterias that limit the search.

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06-02-2012, 11:24 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
> Experienced
> Bilingual

Am I missing anything?

I think those are the criterias that limit the search.
He doesn't have to be experienced. Look at Boucher, it's not like he spent years in the American league.

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06-02-2012, 11:25 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
Good thing the Flames don't limit their pool of candidates based on arbitrary criteria and got to choose the man they thought was best for the job.
It appears the Canadiens' terribly crippled list of candidates, list that doesn't allow the hiring of the best personnel still has a few elements that seem to interest other teams. It's too bad this board is so interested in countering French media bias with it's own anti French bias to realize we've still got interesting options.

Theres nothing "arbitrary" about French being an important language to master within a French market.

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06-02-2012, 11:25 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
He doesn't have to be experienced. Look at Boucher, it's not like he spent years in the American league.
Going by what Bergevin said, that the preference would be a coach with some NHL experience (if I remember correctly).

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06-02-2012, 11:28 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
Would just like to remember everyone that Bob Hartley, that mediocre French coach being "pushed down our throats by l'antichambre" and only getting a look at in Montréal because he is French when so many better names float around, has just been deemed the best candidate available by another team.

:shocked:

That this forum still believes itself any representative of the casual Montréal Canadiens fans and their aspirations for this team still puzzles me to this day.
So what you're saying is that Hartley was pretty much unfairly judged by this fan base because he spoke french.

Sure...go on, live in your little bubble.

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06-02-2012, 11:29 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
It appears the Canadiens' terribly crippled list of candidates, list that doesn't allow the hiring of the best personnel still has a few elements that seem to interest other teams. It's too bad this board is so interested in countering French media bias with it's own anti French bias to realize that we've still got interesting options.

Theres nothing "arbitrary" about French being an important language to master within a French market.
The conversation has effectively been hijacked by certain media figures and it's now seen as "A Francophone from here (Quebec) is a better candidate because he can understand and communicate with us, than an Anglophone who speaks French".

It is factually correct, but suggest this ideology to any other profession and you will be served with a case of discrimination.

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06-02-2012, 11:30 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
That's fine then and I agree with you. It sucks when people paint you with a certain brush and it's not even relevant anymore.

However, posting non-sense like "You want an Anglo team, go root for the Maroons," you also paint a different picture. I get you are angry but those types of comments usually alienate a certain percentage of the crowd, which may or may not have been what you intended on doing.
I am sorry to anyone who felt offended...

But anyone should understand that I saw and rooted for the Habs in the 70's and 80's when they had a tremendous mix of local born and other players from all acroos Canada and US.

My favourite players back then: Lafleur, Gainey, Robinson, Naslund and Roy

So I am sick and tired to be painted as a xenophobic freak who wants a 100% Franco Quebecois team. But I feel this team should be a little bit more representative of his majority of fans in Montreal and the Province of Quebec.

The way it's going, we gonna end up with one bilingual GM and one bilingual headcoach... and that's it !

I'd rather have unilingual Anglophone GM and coaches and have 7-10 local born players with a couple of real All-Star players among them.


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06-02-2012, 11:33 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
So what you're saying is that Hartley was pretty much unfairly judged by this fan base because he spoke french.

Sure...go on, live in your little bubble.
What I think was clear, was that Hartley was seen as an overrated, undesirable option, only making the list of candidates because he could speak French.

What this cries out to me, is that only the Canadiens would be stuck having to consider him, because of their annoying prerequisite that the coach must speak French.

Flames, certainly not in need to hire a bilingual coach, however from the whole pool of coaches available, somehow believed this mediocre last thought coach to be the best available. What happened there?

So yeah, allow me to believe, in my "little bubble", that this fan base represented here (and I mean this forum's fan base, which has nothing to do with the casual Canadiens fan) "judged him unfairly".

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06-02-2012, 11:37 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
The conversation has effectively been hijacked by certain media figures and it's now seen as "A Francophone from here (Quebec) is a better candidate because he can understand and communicate with us, than an Anglophone who speaks French".

It is factually correct, but suggest this ideology to any other profession and you will be served with a case of discrimination.
I've got no problem with Crawford or any anglophone being hired, provided they can communicate in French.

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06-02-2012, 11:38 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I am sorry to anyone who felt offended...

But anyone should understand that I saw and rooted for the Habs in the 70's and 80's when they had a tremendous mix of local born and other players from all acroos Canada and US.

My favourite players back then: Lafleur, Gainey, Robinson, Naslund and Roy

So I am sick and tired to be painted as a xenophobic freak who wants a 100% Franco Quebecoois team.
I can understand that. I root for the German National Team in soccer and half the team is not even German or German-born. So I get the feeling of not having that sense of being represented, especially given the history the Habs have over their 100+ year run.

However we have barely seen the Habs scratch the surface yet this off-season. Technically, the official off-season doesn't start until the end of the playoffs. All Bergevin has done to help the organization going forward is hire two guys that he believes will help him. He also signed Nathan Beaulieu. The team is no more, yet no less Francophone then before.

Bergevin's job as general manager is to begin building a team to win.

As for the last two sentences in your post, that won't work. Both the coach and GM need to address the media in both English and French. If one and/or the other can not answer questions from the French media, it's Cunneyworth all over again. I doubt the media, fan base and city want to go through an ordeal like that again.

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06-02-2012, 11:38 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
What I think was clear, was that Hartley was seen as an overrated, undesirable option, only making the list of candidates because he could speak French.

What this cries out to me, is that only the Canadiens would be stuck having to consider him, because of their annoying prerequisite that the coach must speak French.

Flames, certainly not in need to hire a bilingual coach, however from the whole pool of coaches available, somehow believed this mediocre last thought coach to be the best available. What happened there?

So yeah, allow me to believe, in my "little bubble", that this fan base represented here (and I mean this forum's fan base, which has nothing to do with the casual Canadiens fan) "judged him unfairly".
With all due respect, Hartley couldn't find a job in the NHL until the Habs called and his good friend (whose son is his godson) offered him the job.

I agree with your points, but Hartley himself is a special case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I am sorry to anyone who felt offended...

But anyone should understand that I saw and rooted for the Habs in the 70's and 80's when they had a tremendous mix of local born and other players from all acroos Canada and US.

My favourite players back then: Lafleur, Gainey, Robinson, Naslund and Roy

So I am sick and tired to be painted as a xenophobic freak who wants a 100% Franco Quebecois team. But I feel this team should be a little bit more representative of his majority of fans in Montreal and the Province of Quebec.

The way it's going, we gonna end up with one bilingual GM and one bilingual headcoach... and that's it !

I'd rather have unilingual Anglophone GM and coaches and have 7-10 local born players with a couple of real All-Star players among them.
I will always remember how Daniel Brière said no to the Habs. He was right, but it was a slap in the face and showed how little some players valued this team. I hope Bergevin changes that.

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Old
06-02-2012, 11:45 PM
  #314
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Maybe Roy wanted Grigorenko and the management didn't want him. If you look at it this way, Roy will still be implicated with the remparts next year and if Grigorenko is still there and Roy coach the team that did not draft him, there will be some awkward moments. Or maybe he pushed for Grigs and when he saw Bergevin/TT not responding well, it was too much for his ego. Kinda sucks since he was my 1st candidate.

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06-02-2012, 11:47 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
It appears the Canadiens' terribly crippled list of candidates, list that doesn't allow the hiring of the best personnel still has a few elements that seem to interest other teams. It's too bad this board is so interested in countering French media bias with it's own anti French bias to realize that we've still got interesting options.

Theres nothing "arbitrary" about French being an important language to master within a French market.
We have interesting options. Options that 29 other teams have as well, and as evidenced by Hartley's signing in Calgary, our self-imposed limitations aren't even weighted in our favour.

Meanwhile, those same 29 other teams have a myriad of other options not available to us.

All Hartley's signing does is highlight how ridiculous it is for this team to limit itself to such a small pool of coaching candidates.

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06-02-2012, 11:50 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
All Hartley's signing does is highlight how ridiculous it is for this team to limit itself to such a small pool of coaching candidates.
Au contraire. That signing could mean 2 things:

1- Friends hire friends.
2- Hartley, who was good enough to be a top candidate here, seems to have been a top candidate elsewhere as well. Which means that franco candidates, CAN be good as well.

And again.....who else are we missing? Where is that LARGE pool of candidates we are missing?

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06-02-2012, 11:54 PM
  #317
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This thread is getting uglier and dumber. Time to name the coach already so we can all start bashing him , Frenchie and Anglos, all united once again.

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06-02-2012, 11:55 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Vineon View Post
What I think was clear, was that Hartley was seen as an overrated, undesirable option, only making the list of candidates because he could speak French.

What this cries out to me, is that only the Canadiens would be stuck having to consider him, because of their annoying prerequisite that the coach must speak French.

Flames, certainly not in need to hire a bilingual coach, however from the whole pool of coaches available, somehow believed this mediocre last thought coach to be the best available. What happened there?

So yeah, allow me to believe, in my "little bubble", that this fan base represented here (and I mean this forum's fan base, which has nothing to do with the casual Canadiens fan) "judged him unfairly".
Face it, the available coach pool is very underwhelming if you disregard the bilingual factor and even more when you consider it. This is why our fans are frustrated, not because of language issues, it's not Franco VS Anglo, it's only because of how the criteria of bilingualism cuts down other possibilities. And how can you really know what prompted Feaster to hire Hartley? What his criterias were. You base your logic on Calgary's decision when it could've very well been Bergevin's decision that Hartley wasn't the right fit.

Just because Calgary picked Hartley it doesn't mean that he's the best available coach for us. I think all of our fans understand this, except for the ones who try to prove that francophones are automatically a good fit for this team.

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06-02-2012, 11:57 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Bill McNeal View Post
We have interesting options. Options that 29 other teams have as well, and as evidenced by Hartley's signing in Calgary, our self-imposed limitations aren't even weighted in our favour.

Meanwhile, those same 29 other teams have a myriad of other options not available to us.

All Hartley's signing does is highlight how ridiculous it is for this team to limit itself to such a small pool of coaching candidates.
On this, I'd like to dip in here saying many (most?) French coaches that ended up having a lenghty NHL career have started within the Habs organisation. In short, we gave them the chance others wouldn't and it ended up paying for them.

If anything, the Montréal club has an untapped pool of talents available that generally doesn't get the attention of most other teams not usually drawn towards the Q junior league, for example. Just like there are probably a handful of Scandinavian coaches that would have great NHL careers if only given a chance but yet won't ever get it because nobody scouts foreign coaches for NHL jobs.

What I'm saying is, we've got some great things in our backyard which other teams aren't suspecting and that, if at least somewhat, makes up for our "self imposed limitations".

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06-02-2012, 11:57 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Going by what Bergevin said, that the preference would be a coach with some NHL experience (if I remember correctly).
And rightfully so, how many times do we need to experiment with the rookie coaches the past two decades?

Montreal is a very, very, demanding environment for a rookie NHL coach...we have had much better success in the modern era with experienced coaches.

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06-03-2012, 12:01 AM
  #321
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Tell me, and be truthful... where did you see the Devils ending up in your predictions last september?

Last year, the Devils finished with 3 points more than the Habs this year. A turnaround can come very quickly in this league. Because success is now more about group mentality, than individual skills.
Quoted for truth. Parity will do that.

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06-03-2012, 12:04 AM
  #322
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And rightfully so, how many times do we need to experiment with the rookie coaches the past two decades?

Montreal is a very, very, demanding environment for a rookie NHL coach...we have had much better success in the modern era with experienced coaches.
rookie head coaches tend to have good first seasons in montreal. Tremblay took over a team with an 0-5 start and got 6th place in the playoffs. AV went to the 2nd round in his first year. Therien managed a mircale in putting the habs into the 2nd round, Julien got the club into 2nd round in his first full year, and Carbo got the club into 1st place and a 2nd round in his first year.


For whatever reason, the rookies coaches in montreal cannot sustain their early success. Come to think of it, Martin is the first experienced guy that the habs have gone with in a long, long time... since demers, I guess.

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06-03-2012, 12:05 AM
  #323
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I truly miss the good old days of Canadiens hockey.

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06-03-2012, 12:05 AM
  #324
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And there we go.

We're defending Crawford who is being judged unfairly based on his culture and ethnicity. We're not arguing AGAINST francophones.

But I can see some of us still live in the past, where the stranger who tries to integrate our culture will always be inferior by birth.

It's sad we're at a point where it's a numbers game, where it's Anglos vs Francos. I'm very ashamed on the media and fans who argue like that. Grow up its 2012, stop making it political and stop trying to paint us québécois as a dying breed, we're strong enough to protect our culture and our language without reverting to colonial era xenophobia.
Well said, my friend.

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06-03-2012, 12:22 AM
  #325
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rookie head coaches tend to have good first seasons in montreal. Tremblay took over a team with an 0-5 start and got 6th place in the playoffs. AV went to the 2nd round in his first year. Therien managed a mircale in putting the habs into the 2nd round, Julien got the club into 2nd round in his first full year, and Carbo got the club into 1st place and a 2nd round in his first year.


For whatever reason, the rookies coaches in montreal cannot sustain their early success. Come to think of it, Martin is the first experienced guy that the habs have gone with in a long, long time... since demers, I guess.
I think it is fairly easy to coach for a first season, little expectations. Then when things hit the fan, they cant handle the pressure, or are not equiped with enough experience or tools to effectively deal with it.

For me, from the Trembley-AV-Therien-Julien era, there is ample evidence to suggest that experience is the way to go for Montreal in the current environment. And the success seen under Martin and Demers further solidify this for me.

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