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List of candidates for Assistant GM's and Coach Part X

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Old
06-03-2012, 12:22 AM
  #326
Bill McNeal
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Au contraire. That signing could mean 2 things:

1- Friends hire friends.
2- Hartley, who was good enough to be a top candidate here, seems to have been a top candidate elsewhere as well. Which means that franco candidates, CAN be good as well.

And again.....who else are we missing? Where is that LARGE pool of candidates we are missing?
The people who are against the Habs' current policy of hiring coaches want every potential candidate to be included in the search. Yes, that includes francophones.

And where is this large pool? Literally all across North America and even Europe if you want to go down that route. What do other franchises do when they bring in new coaches? They certainly don't scour the airwaves for local media personalities and people who have already been through one failed tenure with their team. They groom potential coaches in the minors, they go to other teams' assistants and minor league coaches, they go to the juniors... They actually do a thorough search of everybody available and do their best to select the perfect candidate for the position.

Asking "where is that large pool" is an enormous cop-out. Five years ago 50% of the current head coaches in this league had yet to coach a single game in the bigs. They're obviously coming from somewhere.

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06-03-2012, 12:23 AM
  #327
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I don't believe one second in the RDS headline tonight. Roy is still in the mix, no doubt in my mind. Why?

1- Gaston Therrien is not a journalist

2- Therrien says he has only one anonymous source : "Someone from his surroundings who thinks it's not Roy kind of job".

The credibility of this news is just laughable, journalistically talking. You need at least 2 sources to publish a news usually. And something more solid than what Therrien, a non-journalist, has now.

RDS headline tonight should be : "Someone from Patrick Roy surroundings thinks Roy would not be comfortable as the Habs head coach". Totally different.

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06-03-2012, 12:36 AM
  #328
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I am sick and tired of all these discussion the language of the coach. Yes the french media are anti-anglo an the english media pro-anglo. There are plenty of coaches that do not even speak the same language as there players in Soccer, I am sure we could make do with and Anglo or a Franco coach if presented properly. All I want is someone that is above average with solid assistant. At this point in time based on all the names mentioned I feel perhaps promoting Clement Jodoin would be the best thing.

None of the other guys seem very interesting and While I would like Groulx I doubt they would name him head coach.

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06-03-2012, 12:43 AM
  #329
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I am sick and tired of all these discussion the language of the coach. Yes the french media are anti-anglo an the english media pro-anglo.
You, and many others, are going to find this hard to believe, but the English media is NOT "pro-anglo". The English media would take Lemaire back in a heartbeat, for example. They'd probably even get a bit excited over Vigneault or Roy. French media though? Definitely "anti-anglo".

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06-03-2012, 12:53 AM
  #330
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Wait, I'm confused.

So the same people who bashed Cunneyworth for not speaking french, and who stated numerous times that it would mean a lot to them if he took the time to learn french and that it didn't matter where the person is from as long as they could speak the same language that a good portion of the locals did out of respect...are now bashing a potential Crawford hire because he's not a Quebecois?

Do I have this right?

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06-03-2012, 12:55 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Wait, I'm confused.

So the same people who bashed Cunneyworth for not speaking french, and who stated numerous times that it would mean a lot to them if he took the time to learn french and that it didn't matter where the person is from as long as they could speak the same language that a good portion of the locals did out of respect...are now bashing a potential Crawford hire because he's not a Quebecois?

Do I have this right?
It would appear as though you do.

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06-03-2012, 12:57 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You, and many others, are going to find this hard to believe, but the English media is NOT "pro-anglo". The English media would take Lemaire back in a heartbeat, for example. They'd probably even get a bit excited over Vigneault or Roy. French media though? Definitely "anti-anglo".
you are correct; If you check the post I did say pro-anglo not anti-french as opposed to the french media which is anti-anglo ... There is a big difference in my opinion. I was living in Qc and moved in Ontario two years ago, from a french community to an english environment. There is no such thing as anti-french. Billinguism is something that is valued outside Qc.

When I say pro-anglo I should realy say pro-common sense. No ********, promote your friends (e,g. crawford) or the best guy. Same as on french television except on french television they use the language as a reason to elliminate competition. While they could simply use the language as an additional asset to promote the french guy,,,

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06-03-2012, 02:59 AM
  #333
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So it looks like we're down to Crawford or Therrien according to most reputable sources on websites and twitter. How about a poll on just those two names?

Put me down for Crawford. I'm not into bringing in a coach for a second stint after his first one wasn't successful. Crawford is a better coach and has a better track record and better results in the past. He seems really committed to the Habs and has gone out of his way to work on his French just to interview for the job. I think he'll make a great coach as he knows the province and knows how to work with star players as he's done successfully in the past. Also, he brings in a really exciting style of play that I think is conducive with Montreal speed and skill players but also won't shy away from mixing it up with bigger checking forwards.

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06-03-2012, 03:56 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I don't believe one second in the RDS headline tonight. Roy is still in the mix, no doubt in my mind. Why?

1- Gaston Therrien is not a journalist

2- Therrien says he has only one anonymous source : "Someone from his surroundings who thinks it's not Roy kind of job".

The credibility of this news is just laughable, journalistically talking. You need at least 2 sources to publish a news usually. And something more solid than what Therrien, a non-journalist, has now.

RDS headline tonight should be : "Someone from Patrick Roy surroundings thinks Roy would not be comfortable as the Habs head coach". Totally different.
I know Therrien is an idiot but you don't think he would have said this if he wasn't sure of it? Seems to me like "people close to Roy" is a disguised way to say Roy himself.

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06-03-2012, 05:09 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You, and many others, are going to find this hard to believe, but the English media is NOT "pro-anglo". The English media would take Lemaire back in a heartbeat, for example. They'd probably even get a bit excited over Vigneault or Roy. French media though? Definitely "anti-anglo".
Agreed with bolded part. Although, I'm fairly sure the french medias would accept Babcock if he was available. Not randy effin cunneyworth though.

Next part is not in response to you Ohashi, but more of a general statement:

It's not the anglo medias who are "pro-anglo" or "anti-french", it's the fans on this board who refuse to acknowledge they have decided to cheer for THIS team and wish it were a completely different one somehow. As a fan, when you pick a team to cheer for, you can't control who the players, coaches and management will be. So you pick the city, the colors, the name and the history of the franchise. You all knew what you were getting into, lots of frenchies as your co-fans, and the team has a history and needs to cater to part of its fanbase. Those of you who don't get that should stop shedding all those tears everywhere all the time less you drown all of us in this salty ocean of crybabiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
So it looks like we're down to Crawford or Therrien according to most reputable sources on websites and twitter. How about a poll on just those two names?

Put me down for Crawford. I'm not into bringing in a coach for a second stint after his first one wasn't successful. Crawford is a better coach and has a better track record and better results in the past. He seems really committed to the Habs and has gone out of his way to work on his French just to interview for the job. I think he'll make a great coach as he knows the province and knows how to work with star players as he's done successfully in the past. Also, he brings in a really exciting style of play that I think is conducive with Montreal speed and skill players but also won't shy away from mixing it up with bigger checking forwards.
I refuse to believe Bergevin will pick one of these two. Thing is, it's the two he's interviewing right now because no one is available. But he might expand his search later.

But out of the two, picking Crawford would be the bigger mistake. Go into his tenure with a possible fight with the medias is dumb especially for a dinosaur coach who's missed the playoffs his last 4 years. Just like it was dumb to go with an unproven "more of the same, but worse" unilingual anglo in RC. If you're going to go with an anglo coach (even one who speaks french), it should be a well respected and good coach. Not a joke like Crawford, or some ex player recruit coach who's not that bright in RC.

I'd rather have Therrien back, although it's more of a testament to how little I think of Crawford.

The candidate list is thin. And growing thinner. People were hating on Hartley but I'd rather have him than these 2 by a huge margin.


Last edited by Des Louise: 06-03-2012 at 05:28 AM.
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06-03-2012, 05:49 AM
  #336
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Agreed with bolded part. Although, I'm fairly sure the french medias would accept Babcock if he was available. Not randy effin cunneyworth though.

Next part is not in response to you Ohashi, but more of a general statement:

It's not the anglo medias who are "pro-anglo" or "anti-french", it's the fans on this board who refuse to acknowledge they have decided to cheer for THIS team and wish it were a completely different one somehow. As a fan, when you pick a team to cheer for, you can't control who the players, coaches and management will be. So you pick the city, the colors, the name and the history of the franchise. You all knew what you were getting into, lots of frenchies as your co-fans, and the team has a history and needs to cater to part of its fanbase. Those of you who don't get that should stop shedding all those tears everywhere all the time less you drown all of us in this salty ocean of crybabiness.



I refuse to believe Bergevin will pick one of these two. Thing is, it's the two he's interviewing right now because no one is available. But he might expand his search later.

But out of the two, picking Crawford would be the bigger mistake. Go into his tenure with a possible fight with the medias is dumb especially for a dinosaur coach who's missed the playoffs his last 4 years. Just like it was dumb to go with an unproven "more of the same, but worse" unilingual anglo in RC. If you're going to go with an anglo coach (even one who speaks french), it should be a well respected and good coach. Not a joke like Crawford, or some ex player recruit coach who's not that bright in RC.

I'd rather have Therrien back, although it's more of a testament to how little I think of Crawford.

The candidate list is thin. And growing thinner. People were hating on Hartley but I'd rather have him than these 2 by a huge margin.
Michel Therriens record as a head coach:

Team Year Regular season Post season
G W L T OTL Pts Finish Result
MTL 2000–01 62 23 27 6 6 (70) 5th in Northeast Missed playoffs
MTL 2001–02 82 36 31 12 3 87 4th in Northeast Lost in second round
MTL 2002–03 46 18 19 4 5 (77) 4th in Northeast (Fired)
PIT 2005–06 51 14 29 - 8 (58) 5th in Atlantic Missed playoffs
PIT 2006–07 82 47 24 - 11 105 2nd in Atlantic Lost in first round
PIT 2007–08 82 47 27 - 8 102 1st in Atlantic Lost in finals
PIT 2008–09 57 27 25 - 5 (59) (Fired)
Total 462 212 182 22 46 .604


Marc Crawfords record as a headcoach:

Team Year Regular season Post season
G W L T OTL Pts Finish W L Win*% Result
QUE 1994–95 48 30 13 5 – 65 1st in Northeast 2 4 .333 Conference Quarter-Finalist
COL 1995–96 82 47 25 10 – 104 1st in Pacific 16 6 .615 Won Stanley Cup
COL 1996–97 82 49 24 9 – 107 1st in Pacific 10 7 .588 Conference Finalist
COL 1997–98 82 39 26 17 – 95 1st in Pacific 3 4 .429 Conference Quarter-Finalist
QUE/COL total 294 165 88 41 – 371 – 31 21 .596 4 playoff appearances
1 Stanley Cup
VAN 1998–99 37 8 23 6 – 4th in Northwest – – – Missed playoffs
VAN 1999–2000 82 30 29 15 8 83 4th in Northwest – – – Missed playoffs
VAN 2000–01 82 36 28 11 7 90 4th in Northwest 0 4 .000 Conference Quarter-Finalist
VAN 2001–02 82 42 30 7 3 94 2nd in Northwest 2 4 .333 Conference Quarter-Finalist
VAN 2002–03 82 45 23 13 1 104 2nd in Northwest 7 7 .500 Conference Semi-Finalist
VAN 2003–04 82 43 24 10 5 101 1st in Northwest 3 4 .429 Conference Quarter-Finalist
VAN 2005–06 82 42 32 – 8 92 4th in Northwest – – – Missed playoffs
VAN total 529 246 189 59 32 583 - 12 19 .387 4 playoff appearances
LA 2006–07 82 27 41 – 14 68 4th in Pacific – – – Missed playoffs
LA 2007–08 82 32 43 – 7 71 5th in Pacific – – – Missed playoffs
LA total 164 59 84 – 21 139 – – – – –
DAL 2009–10 82 37 31 – 14 88 5th in Pacific – – – Missed playoffs
DAL 2010–11 82 42 29 – 11 95 5th in Pacific – – – Missed playoffs
DAL total 164 79 60 – 25 183 – – – – –
Total 1151 549 421 100 77 1,271 43 40 .518 8 playoff appearances

I'll go with the coach with over a 1000 games coached, whose won a cup, coached many more seasons, accomplished much more and hasn't been out of hockey for half a decades over the guy who looks like Barney from the Simpsons, thanks.

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06-03-2012, 05:55 AM
  #337
Des Louise
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Wait, I'm confused.

So the same people who bashed Cunneyworth for not speaking french, and who stated numerous times that it would mean a lot to them if he took the time to learn french and that it didn't matter where the person is from as long as they could speak the same language that a good portion of the locals did out of respect...are now bashing a potential Crawford hire because he's not a Quebecois?

Do I have this right?
I hate this kind of argumentation. Why do people do this ?

You're lumping different groups in together thinking they should hold some kind of logical consistency. It's so ridiculous, contrived and reeks of dishonesty.

What's happening is that you have someone who is terrible and has made the first round once in 10 years and barely speaks french and will have to go through distractions after distractions because of the Moore/Bertuzzi incident next season on top of starting with 2 strikes with the medias here. He's not very likeable either.

VS

A local guy who has had better results including with some pretty horrible habs teams and has no other issues.

All the french medias/fans will side with Therrien 99/100. Anyone capable of logic would as well. And that's not because Therrien is good, it's because Crawford is a TERRIBLE choice, especially for next season.

Stop crying over the language and propose an actual legit non-local coach who's decent. Even if he doesn't speak french. There aren't any. You guys should save your energies arguing over language when you actually have a reason to complain. Hell, if we actually passed on a good coach like say Babcock to hire Therrien/Crawford I'll go protest at the Bell with you guys (not really but you know, Bergevin will draw my indignant internet ire for a few years).

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06-03-2012, 06:08 AM
  #338
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I'll go with the coach with over a 1000 games coached, whose won a cup, coached many more seasons, accomplished much more and hasn't been out of hockey for half a decades over the guy who looks like Barney from the Simpsons, thanks.
It's funny because it's true.

That said, that's not really an argument.

Looking at these records, one can infer that
-The game has passed Crawford by (1 quarter finals in the past 9 years, missed the playoffs the past 5 years straight that he's coached)
-Therrien has done more with less when he was with the habs. And done very well with the penguins. His success is more recent, which counts for a lot in my opinion since the game has changed a lot since 03-04, before the lockout, the last time Crawford made the playoffs.

Factor in all the controversies with local VS not local, language, Moore/Bertuzzi, etc and I think the choice becomes REALLY obvious.

But to me, it's like saying I'd rather drown than burn. Therrien is not my idea of the ideal coach so I'm not going to keep arguing for him.

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06-03-2012, 06:16 AM
  #339
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On this, I'd like to dip in here saying many (most?) French coaches that ended up having a lenghty NHL career have started within the Habs organisation. In short, we gave them the chance others wouldn't and it ended up paying for them.
What do you mean by a start in the organization? That is so vague it's meaningless.

Let's look at the Franco coaches working presently in the NHL.

If you mean given a first time job within the team's vast organization than Boucher is the only one that fits that description.

The Habs hired him out of juniors.

Vigneault did not start in Montreal. He started in Ottawa as an assistant to his good buddy, Bowness.

Hartley started in Colorado.

Julien started in the Oilers organization.

So your take on things is a little skewered.

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06-03-2012, 06:26 AM
  #340
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Wait, I'm confused.

So the same people who bashed Cunneyworth for not speaking french, and who stated numerous times that it would mean a lot to them if he took the time to learn french and that it didn't matter where the person is from as long as they could speak the same language that a good portion of the locals did out of respect...are now bashing a potential Crawford hire because he's not a Quebecois?

Do I have this right?

Almost. They don't use the term Quebecois. (Jacques Martin & Hartley aren't really Quebecois). They use the code word Francophone.

Otherwise you hit the mail squarely on the head.

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06-03-2012, 06:36 AM
  #341
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Agreed with bolded part. Although, I'm fairly sure the french medias would accept Babcock if he was available.
Really?

That's just speculation on your part. When Cunneyworth started no one knew if he was going to be another Babcock or another lousy coach. But the kaka hit the fan anyway. It wasn't that the protesters outside the Bell Center had a crystal ball and knew he was going to wet the bed. It was because he was a unilingual anglo.

My speculation is that if the Habs would hire Babcock there would be just as big an uproar as when they hired RC. Actually worse because they'll drag out the fact that he spent 4-5 years in Montreal and never learned French.

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06-03-2012, 06:41 AM
  #342
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It's funny because it's true.

That said, that's not really an argument.

Looking at these records, one can infer that
-The game has passed Crawford by (1 quarter finals in the past 9 years, missed the playoffs the past 5 years straight that he's coached)
-Therrien has done more with less when he was with the habs. And done very well with the penguins. His success is more recent, which counts for a lot in my opinion since the game has changed a lot since 03-04, before the lockout, the last time Crawford made the playoffs.

Factor in all the controversies with local VS not local, language, Moore/Bertuzzi, etc and I think the choice becomes REALLY obvious.

But to me, it's like saying I'd rather drown than burn. Therrien is not my idea of the ideal coach so I'm not going to keep arguing for him.
The Barney comment was a bit of a cheap shot

That being said, I see what you're saying about Crawford but Therrien is such a terrible substitute that I would think anyone but him would be a good choice. Really, I think he's that bad. The only reason he has any playoff wins was Crosby, Malkin and Fleury were playing out of their minds. Scudding and Gill were monsters and that propelled the Pens. Therrien was not much of a strategist as a coach and sheer talent helped the Pens get as far as they did. They were seriously out matched in the finals against the Wings that year and Therrien couldn't adapt them during the series if ever.

With Crawford I THINK, and I'll be clear about this, that he's had time to assess the new NHL while he was commenting on tsn as an analyst. Apparently he's done a lot of the things that Hitchcock has done to adapt himself and change. This won't be shown until his next coaching gig but he's a sharp guy and has done it in the past, like Hitchcock. There's some hope with Crawford that I just don't see with Therrien. That hope for a changed coaching style along with his experience are why I'd give him the nod over Therrien who I truly believe isn't that bright and hasn't done anything since 2008.

I wish we had more choices to choose form but if you believe the media, it's a two horse race and Crawford is the best of a bad bunch IMO. Who ever we hire, I HOPE will be the right choice but nothing, absolutely nothing about Therrien leads me to fathom for any length of thine, that he's the right man for the job. I can't think of anyone more loathsome for the job than Therrien, really, I can't say how much I don't respect the guy. I was terribly surprised when he got the Pens job and not surprised that he hasn't had a sniff since.

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06-03-2012, 06:44 AM
  #343
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Really?

That's just speculation on your part. When Cunneyworth started no one knew if he was going to be another Babcock or another lousy coach. But the kaka hit the fan anyway. It wasn't that the protesters outside the Bell Center had a crystal ball and knew he was going to wet the bed. It was because he was a unilingual anglo.

My speculation is that if the Habs would hire Babcock there would be just as big an uproar as when they hired RC. Actually worse because they'll drag out the fact that he spent 4-5 years in Montreal and never learned French.
I agree with Lmost everything you say so I hate to point out the part I disagree with. But, francois gagnon was very vocal when he said that the only way the media wouldn't revolt with a pure Anglo coach would be if there were to get a truly elite guy like Babcock. At that point they'd sit back and just wait for him to fail until the knives came out. Most French media guys agreed with that. Other than that I think you're pretty spot on.

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06-03-2012, 06:48 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
It's funny because it's true.

That said, that's not really an argument.

Looking at these records, one can infer that
-The game has passed Crawford by (1 quarter finals in the past 9 years, missed the playoffs the past 5 years straight that he's coached)
-Therrien has done more with less when he was with the habs. And done very well with the penguins. His success is more recent, which counts for a lot in my opinion since the game has changed a lot since 03-04, before the lockout, the last time Crawford made the playoffs.

Factor in all the controversies with local VS not local, language, Moore/Bertuzzi, etc and I think the choice becomes REALLY obvious.

But to me, it's like saying I'd rather drown than burn. Therrien is not my idea of the ideal coach so I'm not going to keep arguing for him.
The bulk of Crawford's success came with a stacked Avalanche team that Rejean Houle could have coached.

It is possible that we would see some immediate results under him as the players will enjoy playing for a personality like him. Unfortunately he has absolutely no technical knowledge and would eventually be exposed like he was in Dallas. This guy is shockingly dumb with some of his observations and opinions. He truly is a dinosaur who regurgitates truisms and isn't remotely capable of adapting his viewpoints to the constant changes being made in the game.

If he is hired, he will require some very capable assistants who he would need to delogate the responsibility of systems and tactics to. He might be ok as an overseer and motivator but that is it.

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06-03-2012, 06:55 AM
  #345
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The people who are against the Habs' current policy of hiring coaches want every potential candidate to be included in the search. Yes, that includes francophones.

And where is this large pool? Literally all across North America and even Europe if you want to go down that route. What do other franchises do when they bring in new coaches? They certainly don't scour the airwaves for local media personalities and people who have already been through one failed tenure with their team. They groom potential coaches in the minors, they go to other teams' assistants and minor league coaches, they go to the juniors... They actually do a thorough search of everybody available and do their best to select the perfect candidate for the position.

Asking "where is that large pool" is an enormous cop-out. Five years ago 50% of the current head coaches in this league had yet to coach a single game in the bigs. They're obviously coming from somewhere.
And talking about "the world" as the large pool we're missing is not a cop-out? Who lately in all the 30 teams was hired to be the coach or GM from the world, Europe and all. This is where the debate goes nowhere. People can't live with the fact that we have to deal with this criteria. We do. You don't like it, fine. But are you able to deal with it? Or are you about to change allegeance. Fine as well. But it is what it is. We can say that Gauthier actually couldn't care less about the french criteria whether from the management, whether in the team as players right? And in the end, himself, at to say that he was sorry if the Cunneyworth hiring offended people. And can we say that he TOTALLY didn't mean a word of it? Yet, he had to say it. So, how about for some people to get real here and even if they don't share it, understand that this is the reality of the market. When is that going to happen?

So 50% have hired from somewhere....great....yet some have already been fired....some might be about to etc....But then...do they really work with a large pool themselves? How many have hired guys they know? How many have looked in the Q to see if there couldn't be better candidates? The others also DON'T work with a large pool except that it's less apparent. In the end, you go with guys you know. Even if you pretend to have a bunch of candidates. Do they ALL really take the best man available? And in the end, even if they would, most are fired in 3 years. I really don't see the big deal. The CONCEPT is that we are missing a lot of people. The reality is that it is what it is and in the end, we are not missing THAT many quality people. And since some local in here can do just as good as a job based on what the coaching job is all about, you privilege local. Just like they are mostly doing all over the league. There are exceptions though. Yzerman went for the talent. Claude Noel went for what he thinks is the talent for his assistant coach. But it's not the norm.

And I'm all for grooming potential coaches in the minors. Something, aside from Boucher, Gainey and Co failed terribly at doing. 'Cause with the criteria we had, it's really the only way you'd be able to get a great candidate. Reason why Bergevin needs to replace Jodoin ASAP. We know that whether it's Therrien or Crawford, for whatever reason, we are not going with the greatest candidate ever here. So you need to groom one that fits the criteria. My pick is J.-F. Houle who has been doing nothing sort of a miracles wit his junior teams. Or convince Groulx to take it. Or whoever but you need INDEED to groom your future coach. We'll see if Bergevin is aware of it. Which right now, with the lack of "locals" around the team, is my only concern about this management.

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06-03-2012, 07:03 AM
  #346
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I dont know about anyone else here but I am getting a little worried about the coaching situation.
I dont want Crawford or Therrien and not too sure if Roy is the answer and why did Hartley bolt to Calgary or was he even an option.
I hope Bergevin pulls something out of his hat real soon.

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06-03-2012, 07:03 AM
  #347
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Really?

That's just speculation on your part. When Cunneyworth started no one knew if he was going to be another Babcock or another lousy coach. But the kaka hit the fan anyway. It wasn't that the protesters outside the Bell Center had a crystal ball and knew he was going to wet the bed. It was because he was a unilingual anglo.

My speculation is that if the Habs would hire Babcock there would be just as big an uproar as when they hired RC. Actually worse because they'll drag out the fact that he spent 4-5 years in Montreal and never learned French.
Well Babcock is related to McGill University. AND Babcock has already stated in an interview that the Habs coach HAS to speak french so he understands the reality and wouldn't be surprised that it is a clause in his contract that he'd learn the language. So whether he starts taking lessons, or whether he says that but wouldn't be french when available but will say that he will learn it and as fast as he can, somehow, you can't go against a great candidate like him. There would be people talking....but I can tell you that at worst, it could be AS bad as Crawford which says a lot 'cause Crawford would already sustain a conversation while Babcock simply can't. But the quality of the coach makes up for it.

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06-03-2012, 07:05 AM
  #348
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I agree with Lmost everything you say so I hate to point out the part I disagree with. But, francois gagnon was very vocal when he said that the only way the media wouldn't revolt with a pure Anglo coach would be if there were to get a truly elite guy like Babcock. At that point they'd sit back and just wait for him to fail until the knives came out. Most French media guys agreed with that. Other than that I think you're pretty spot on.
You may be right but I get a sense that Francois Gagnon doesn't share the bias of his confreres.

Bertrand Raymond claimed the other night that it was the anglo media that was pushing Crawford. Well like in most things BR was wrong. Gagnon was the first one to mention Crawford as a candidate even before TSN 990 or TSN-TV or the CBC. Francois seems to be just doing his job. He reports what he knows.

I'd even go one step further. If Bergevin was able to hire Quenneville there would be an uproar after the first press conference. He may have a French name and he won a Cup but if Bertrand Raymond can claim that Crawford only speaks a few words of French, what do you think he would say about Quenneville? Crawford's mom and wife are French Canadian. That's as close as you can get to being French Canadian without being one and Marc is being thrown under the bus. Can you imagine what would happen to Quenneville who is one or two generations removed from his roots. Or Babcock who can't even say good afternoon, how are you?

So I don't buy this BS that Babcock or Quenneville would be acceptable to the market.

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06-03-2012, 07:08 AM
  #349
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What do you mean by a start in the organization? That is so vague it's meaningless.

Let's look at the Franco coaches working presently in the NHL.

If you mean given a first time job within the team's vast organization than Boucher is the only one that fits that description.

The Habs hired him out of juniors.

Vigneault did not start in Montreal. He started in Ottawa as an assistant to his good buddy, Bowness.

Hartley started in Colorado.

Julien started in the Oilers organization.

So your take on things is a little skewered.
It's one thing to start a career in an organization, it's totally another to get a chance at head coaching a team. We saw that with Team Canada Juniors when they have the hardest time in the world giving the head coaching job to a Q coach....

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06-03-2012, 07:11 AM
  #350
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You may be right but I get a sense that Francois Gagnon doesn't share the bias of his confreres.

Bertrand Raymond claimed the other night that it was the anglo media that was pushing Crawford. Well like in most things BR was wrong. Gagnon was the first one to mention Crawford as a candidate even before TSN 990 or TSN-TV or the CBC. Francois seems to be just doing his job. He reports what he knows.

I'd even go one step further. If Bergevin was able to hire Quenneville there would be an uproar after the first press conference. He may have a French name and he won a Cup but if Bertrand Raymond can claim that Crawford only speaks a few words of French, what do you think he would say about Quenneville? Crawford's mom and wife are French Canadian. That's as close as you can get to being French Canadian without being one and Marc is being thrown under the bus. Can you imagine what would happen to Quenneville who is one or two generations removed from his roots. Or Babcock who can't even say good afternoon, how are you?

So I don't buy this BS that Babcock or Quenneville would be acceptable to the market.
Quenneville is not a star name like Babcock would be. So I agree that Quenneville wouldn't be popular but Babcock? There would be questions....but the good would clearly beat the bad. But you can't sell that much the Crawford candidacy and clearly can't compare their resumes even if Crawford knows 1 word or 2.

Babcock will be able to do it based on the fact that he went of his way to acknowledge the need for a coach to speak the language. It's already better than some who don't believe in it because english is the language in the room.

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