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The Official Jordan Staal Wacky Speculation Thread IV

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Old
06-16-2012, 03:02 PM
  #301
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I assume you mean from WPG and not the entire NHL, in which case I'd have to argue with you.

Kane would be good but I don't see them moving him. He's the franchise.
Him not being a RHS is the only thing u could possibly not like. He's perfect for us. Agree with Cole. Overpay a little for Gaustad and add Kane and we're a better team than with Staal and a reclamation project.

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06-16-2012, 03:02 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Doesn't matter. You realize a player's value to his team can be higher than his actual trade value right? Ennis is a young core player. Short of overpayment, he's not getting moved.
I'm pretty sure that if Shero called up the Sabres and said hey we want Ennis and are looking to move Staal a trade would happen very fast. If you don't think/realize that Staal's value is a lot greater than Tyler Ennis then I dunno what to tell you. Do more research maybe? Or try to be less of a homer.

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06-16-2012, 03:06 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by sch28 View Post
If the Pens do in fact trade Jordan to Buffalo, I would ask for Mike Weber and bring the hometown kid back home. Maybe Pom, Weber, and a second for Staal? Maybe a little more?
Forget Buffalo, they dont have pieces to fit what the Pens need for Staal. Their prospects are not that good, their young players include Ennis who's not bad but not worth close to Staal, or Hodgson who's a center and wanted out of Vancouver because he was 3rd line center.

The Hurricanes have a much better prospect/youth pool to pick from when trading, also they have 8th pick in the draft which is a big upgrade from the Sabres pick when you consider who is available at each spot.

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06-16-2012, 03:08 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Him not being a RHS is the only thing u could possibly not like. He's perfect for us. Agree with Cole. Overpay a little for Gaustad and add Kane and we're a better team than with Staal and a reclamation project.
Yah among the various trade ideas I've seen this week and all summer Kane + Gaustad would be one of the better returns available. But until there's reason to think the rumors are true, I am assuming WPG is going to re-sign him and pay him what he wants. They're $31M under the cap.

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06-16-2012, 03:08 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If said player wants out of his current team, then yes it's fairly reasonable. If Kane is getting moved Staal would be the kind of guy they'd need coming back.
If there is any truth to the rumour that Kane wants out of Winnipeg (and I believe there probably is based on his problems in the city last year) then I hope Shero is on the phone talking to the Jets about a Staal +/- for Kane +/- trade.

Kane would be a beast to get back, and would be absolutely sick on Sid's line.

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06-16-2012, 03:32 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Never know... Thunder Bay is pretty close to Winnipeg.
The funny thing is ... Minneapolis is closer.

How about J. Staal for Setoguchi and (Granlund or 1st in 2012) ???


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-16-2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: added proposal
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Old
06-16-2012, 03:49 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
The funny thing is ... Minneapolis is closer.

How about J. Staal for Setoguchi and (Granlund or 1st in 2012) ???
Are you suggesting you'd rather have that return than Kane and Gaustad??

Minnesota is arguably THE weakest destination for Staal, in terms of return. Worse than Buffalo, worse than TOR, worse by far than Carolina (as they have many possible combinations of players we could use). Setoguchi should be an afterthought in a Staal trade and whoever we'd pick / however good Granlund might be, he's not good enough to be the main piece in a Staal trade.

The Wild, excepting guys like Koivu, are loaded with mediocre players.

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06-16-2012, 03:51 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by spiny norman View Post
The funny thing is ... Minneapolis is closer.

How about J. Staal for Setoguchi and (Granlund or 1st in 2012) ???
Setoguchi better not be the center piece of a Staal trade.

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06-16-2012, 10:10 PM
  #309
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Well I'm glad people are receptive to the idea of bringing E. Kane on board. I wasn't sure how a deal would be modeled to make that trade but hopefully he doesn't want to resign with the Jets and we could make a play for him. He's probably the only potential trade bait that I'd consider overpaying for. I have zero interest in trading with Buffalo or Minnesota if it requires Staal. The only way I trade Staal is for a dynamic return. It'd be a shame to trade our best bargaining chip for a return that includes guys with potential who MIGHT be on the cusp of stardom such as Seto, Ennis, Schenn, etc., but still haven't really arrived yet. I would move Staal for Kane though in a heartbeat, plus add in a good defenseman prospect(s) not named Depres or Morrow. Kane being an RFA, not wanting to resign, plus off ice issues might be enough to persuade the Jets to get something dynamic in return for him. I just really hope GMRS would actively pursue him because I'm sure $&@hole teams like the Cryers, Bruins, and Rags would also try to get him and I do NOT want Kane in our division or with the Bs. I think Staal would be the most attractive option out of anything those other teams could offer. We either resign Staal or we trade him for a huge return. I don't don't don't want to see him traded for a package that includes guys with potential and reclamation projects.

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06-16-2012, 11:07 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Are you suggesting you'd rather have that return than Kane and Gaustad??

Minnesota is arguably THE weakest destination for Staal, in terms of return. Worse than Buffalo, worse than TOR, worse by far than Carolina (as they have many possible combinations of players we could use). Setoguchi should be an afterthought in a Staal trade and whoever we'd pick / however good Granlund might be, he's not good enough to be the main piece in a Staal trade.

The Wild, excepting guys like Koivu, are loaded with mediocre players.
No worries ... I was just making a suggestion.

Evander Kane would be a player that I would give up Jordan Staal for. Assuming of course, the contract situations for both players can be mutually rectified.

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Old
06-16-2012, 11:23 PM
  #311
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I think I said this in TOSS (The Official Staal Speculation) thread #2, but just to reiterate.... while killing time, it basically makes no sense to discuss return or options before we know if he wants out to get a bigger role, or - more likely, IMO - is amenable to signing a long term deal at a reasonable cap-hit.

The two different situations greatly change his value, our motivations etc.
In the absence of any knowledge of these important factors, we are constantly coming at this subject from diverging per-conceptions.

One potential return looks poor when measured against signing Staal long term, while it is great or at least agreeable, if we are under the gun because Staal won't sign with us save for an outsized salary/role on the team.

In a sense, talking Evander Kane, this is worse so. He should be worth a ton, and some team would roll the dice, but Winnipeg's situation is much different, if he refuses to sign with them.

Clearly Kane is the kind of player we'd love to add, but I don't think Staal would commit to them long term, and Winnipeg would be stupid to make such a deal without that commitment. Unless for Staal, I don't see how we have the assets to be appealing to Winnipeg.

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Old
06-17-2012, 02:33 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I think I said this in TOSS (The Official Staal Speculation) thread #2, but just to reiterate.... while killing time, it basically makes no sense to discuss return or options before we know if he wants out to get a bigger role, or - more likely, IMO - is amenable to signing a long term deal at a reasonable cap-hit.

The two different situations greatly change his value, our motivations etc.
In the absence of any knowledge of these important factors, we are constantly coming at this subject from diverging per-conceptions.
Staal's value to us drastically changes depending on those factors, but I don't think his value to other teams changes much unless he has a very specific set of teams that he's willing to play for.

Quote:
In a sense, talking Evander Kane, this is worse so. He should be worth a ton, and some team would roll the dice, but Winnipeg's situation is much different, if he refuses to sign with them.
I don't see how it's worse so for Winnipeg. Kane is an RFA. They're going to get a significant return for him whether he wants to play there or not. There is no risk that Winnipeg misplays their hand and walks away with nothing.

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06-17-2012, 02:57 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Staal's value to us drastically changes depending on those factors, but I don't think his value to other teams changes much unless he has a very specific set of teams that he's willing to play for.
I think it is just being logical that if he isn't willing to sign with us, you can bet that he has very specific demands who he would otherwise sign for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
I don't see how it's worse so for Winnipeg. Kane is an RFA. They're going to get a significant return for him whether he wants to play there or not. There is no risk that Winnipeg misplays their hand and walks away with nothing.
Of course they'd get a significant return, but if you are inquiring about a player forcing his way out, would you not want to make sure that the player wants to play for you? At least with Staal, you have a year of him playing for you.
But anyway, I was being unclear. Kane was supposed to be more of a franchise player for Winnipeg than Staal is for us, so him wanting out would hurt them more than Staal wanting to leave us. As an organization.

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06-17-2012, 03:37 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I think it is just being logical that if he isn't willing to sign with us, you can bet that he has very specific demands who he would otherwise sign for.
If it's to be a fixture in a team's top 6, I don't think that's specific at all. If it's to play with one of his brothers, then sure - his value goes down considerably.

Quote:
Of course they'd get a significant return, but if you are inquiring about a player forcing his way out, would you not want to make sure that the player wants to play for you? At least with Staal, you have a year of him playing for you.
That's presumably something that is worked out in trade talks. I don't think I've ever seen a significant RFA without a contract traded and then refuse to sign with his new team, which is to say that it's not much of a fear if I'm an inquiring GM. Besides, Winnipeg is the least desired destination for just about any professional hockey player. Him wanting out isn't necessarily a sign that he's only willing to play for a small number of teams. He's probably more than happy to be anywhere that isn't Edmonton, Winnipeg, or Columbus.

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06-17-2012, 02:48 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
If it's to be a fixture in a team's top 6, I don't think that's specific at all. If it's to play with one of his brothers, then sure - his value goes down considerably.



That's presumably something that is worked out in trade talks. I don't think I've ever seen a significant RFA without a contract traded and then refuse to sign with his new team, which is to say that it's not much of a fear if I'm an inquiring GM. Besides, Winnipeg is the least desired destination for just about any professional hockey player. Him wanting out isn't necessarily a sign that he's only willing to play for a small number of teams. He's probably more than happy to be anywhere that isn't Edmonton, Winnipeg, or Columbus.
Yeah: Ownership stability, a passionate and large group of fans, and a brand new arena are things players hate.

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06-17-2012, 03:39 PM
  #316
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If I were a player, the location of the city wouldn't be the 1st criteria on my list. Money would be 1, chance to win would be 2, amenities would be 3, game day environment would be 4.

Winnipeg wouldn't be my first choice as a player, but it wouldn't be my last either.

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06-17-2012, 03:43 PM
  #317
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If I were a player, the location of the city wouldn't be the 1st criteria on my list. Money would be 1, chance to win would be 2, amenities would be 3, game day environment would be 4.

Winnipeg wouldn't be my first choice as a player, but it wouldn't be my last either.
Yeah. Unless you want a great night life or live in a big city, the travel time is really the only negative I can come up with.

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06-17-2012, 03:44 PM
  #318
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I'd probably go with this as my list of priorities:

1a. Money
1b. Winning
2. Locale

I don't know how much the fans/crowd would really matter to me, to be honest.

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06-17-2012, 03:53 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
I'd probably go with this as my list of priorities:

1a. Money
1b. Winning
2. Locale

I don't know how much the fans/crowd would really matter to me, to be honest.
I would probably care more about fans and whatnot when I was younger and less as I got older.

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06-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #320
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Have you ever played hockey in front of a decently sized crowd before, Coach?

I have only played in front of sizable crowds for a very brief time when I played in college, but let me tell you something...there's absolutely nothing like it. Nothing in the world. If I were a pro player, getting in front of 18,000 raucous people on a nightly basis would be one of the main reasons I woke up in the morning. It's that addicting and that rush inducing.

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06-17-2012, 04:15 PM
  #321
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Nope. Biggest "crowd" I've ever played in front of was probably 1000 people.

I didn't even pay attention to the crowd whenever I played though, both football and hockey. I was much, much more engaged with my teammates/coaches, and the other team's players.

I don't know, still not sure if I would care either way, to be brutally honest about it.

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06-17-2012, 05:12 PM
  #322
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Nope. Biggest "crowd" I've ever played in front of was probably 1000 people.

I didn't even pay attention to the crowd whenever I played though, both football and hockey. I was much, much more engaged with my teammates/coaches, and the other team's players.

I don't know, still not sure if I would care either way, to be brutally honest about it.
my first game in front of a crowd, i came running out of the gate to put on a little show......sliped and almost fell on my face.........never looked at the crowd the rest of the game

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06-17-2012, 06:10 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Coach John McGuirk View Post
Nope. Biggest "crowd" I've ever played in front of was probably 1000 people.

I didn't even pay attention to the crowd whenever I played though, both football and hockey. I was much, much more engaged with my teammates/coaches, and the other team's players.

I don't know, still not sure if I would care either way, to be brutally honest about it.
If the crowd is big enough, you don't have to pay attention. You can feel it. Those fans in Winnipeg are a passionate bunch. When they get a really good team, that's going to be one of the best hockey experiences in the league.

And playing in front of a passionate fan base makes the whole experience more fun. That's what it's all about. Playing in front of 75-80% capacity is no fun.

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06-17-2012, 08:21 PM
  #324
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Playing in front of 75-80% capacity is no fun.
if your use to it imo.......but i have always had fun even if there was just a hand full.

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06-17-2012, 09:04 PM
  #325
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If the crowd is big enough, you don't have to pay attention. You can feel it. Those fans in Winnipeg are a passionate bunch. When they get a really good team, that's going to be one of the best hockey experiences in the league.

And playing in front of a passionate fan base makes the whole experience more fun. That's what it's all about. Playing in front of 75-80% capacity is no fun.
That they are, every game I have caught that was played in WPG was loud as hell. I wish our fans were 2/3's as loud as they are with a smaller crowd.

I am scared to see that crowd in the playoffs when they have a contending team, the roof may come off.

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