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Old
03-29-2013, 09:01 PM
  #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
That ain't saying much.

It's quite possible that all of those players will be more valuable than Brassard.

If you want to make a statement, say that there is a significant chance (>25%) that Murray will be the most valuable player to the Blue Jackets for the next fifteen years. Would you agree with that statement?
He keeps taking shots at Ryan Murray, so I thought I would take a low blow at one of the more overrated third line players in the league.

There is a chance that Ryan Murray becomes this team's best player not named Rick Nash, and there is a chance that he even becomes better than said player. People are hard on him because they are disappointed that the prospect they wanted didn't get picked. I get tired of the lack of respect for one of the better prospects not playing in the NHL.

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03-29-2013, 09:42 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post


I can guarantee you that he will be more valuable to this team than Derick Brassard. And probably within 2 years.
He already is. you act like I have an emotional attachment to Brassard other than my HF name.

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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
He keeps taking shots at Ryan Murray, so I thought I would take a low blow at one of the more overrated third line players in the league.

There is a chance that Ryan Murray becomes this team's best player not named Rick Nash, and there is a chance that he even becomes better than said player. People are hard on him because they are disappointed that the prospect they wanted didn't get picked. I get tired of the lack of respect for one of the better prospects not playing in the NHL.
Yeah taking shots at him. I've called him our top prospect and a likely Dan Hamhuis for us. rielly and Reinhart are more sexy guys with more flare, that's why he's higher than Murray. People like myself are hard on him because we have players who play like Murray, and because of our need on offense. He's going to probably be a good player, but there are better players coming out of that draft IMO.

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03-29-2013, 10:07 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
People like myself are hard on him because we have players who play like Murray
False. Erixon is probably the closest in terms of style, but without half the defensive acumen of Murray.

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03-30-2013, 03:29 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
False. Erixon is probably the closest in terms of style, but without half the defensive acumen of Murray.
Murray is regarded as elite defensive player with some offensive capabilities. Seems alot like Tyutin, although his defense isn't elite.

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03-30-2013, 05:31 AM
  #655
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03-30-2013, 08:17 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Murray is regarded as elite defensive player with some offensive capabilities. Seems alot like Tyutin, although his defense isn't elite.
I take no side in this dispute, but that comparison makes no sense, CBJB.

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03-30-2013, 11:50 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Murray is regarded as elite defensive player with some offensive capabilities.
And again, I point to Erixon with a way better defensive game. Both are savvy with the puck and are both great skaters, with the edge going to Murray. I'd put money on Erixon and Murray having similar numbers once they get into their careers. Murray might not be lights-out offensively, but his awareness of where to put the puck is going to bag him a lot of assists at the NHL level.

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03-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
And again, I point to Erixon with a way better defensive game. Both are savvy with the puck and are both great skaters, with the edge going to Murray. I'd put money on Erixon and Murray having similar numbers once they get into their careers. Murray might not be lights-out offensively, but his awareness of where to put the puck is going to bag him a lot of assists at the NHL level.
If Murray plays like Erixon we wasted a pick. Dont get me wrong Erixon COULD be a stud, where Murray is already touted as a stud. Murray should be (at least should have been this season ) a whole notch above erixon, moore and aucion. Straight out of the draft. He doesnt get rattled or hurried. His heads up always looking for the outlet pass, he knows where to be in most situations, and isnt afraid to take the body. His hockey iq is through the roof, his skating and stick handling are superb. He knows what to say and when to say and isnt afraid to take responsibility for what needs to get done. No he doesnt have the flashiest game, but he was almost on pace for 1ppg this season before his injury, with barely any help what so ever. Now I can only imagine him making breakout passes to Cam, Calvert, possibly even Drouin/Barkov/Lindholm or shinkaruk(master of the give'n'go)

With that being said I think Murray will benefit next year seeing how he'll have 5 months of skating and rehab & conditioning making sure hes 100%. Than almost as soon as thats done he goes to a FULL training camp with our newest prospects. Followed by a full preseason. Murray has already been spending A LOT of time with coaches, players, training staff and the rink staff getting familiar with everything and everyone so come next season its not all new.

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:33 PM
  #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
And again, I point to Erixon with a way better defensive game. Both are savvy with the puck and are both great skaters, with the edge going to Murray. I'd put money on Erixon and Murray having similar numbers once they get into their careers. Murray might not be lights-out offensively, but his awareness of where to put the puck is going to bag him a lot of assists at the NHL level.
Murray's offense will surprise people. He has a calm demeanor with the puck and makes very good passes, combined with his intelligence. He won't be Kris Letang or Erik Karlsson, but I certainly don't put it out of the realm of possibility that he's a 50 point defenseman in the NHL ... especially if we can build up some talent around him.

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03-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #660
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For Sore, since I know he watches a lot of WHL Hockey and he was trying to alleviate some worries I had draft night about Ryan:

Is Murray regarded as a Top pairing defenseman, minus the elite offensive cabilities, In your opinion?

And

Give me best guesses for these on an A - F scale:

Skating:
Defensive Positioning:
Hitting/Checking/Board Play:
Breakout Passing:
Acumen in the Offensive Zone:

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03-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
If Murray plays like Erixon we wasted a pick. Dont get me wrong Erixon COULD be a stud, where Murray is already touted as a stud. Murray should be (at least should have been this season ) a whole notch above erixon, moore and aucion. Straight out of the draft. He doesnt get rattled or hurried. His heads up always looking for the outlet pass, he knows where to be in most situations, and isnt afraid to take the body. His hockey iq is through the roof, his skating and stick handling are superb. He knows what to say and when to say and isnt afraid to take responsibility for what needs to get done. No he doesnt have the flashiest game, but he was almost on pace for 1ppg this season before his injury, with barely any help what so ever. Now I can only imagine him making breakout passes to Cam, Calvert, possibly even Drouin/Barkov/Lindholm or shinkaruk(master of the give'n'go)
Believe me, I know the low-down on Murray. I was one of his biggest supporters at draft time, and have continually pumped his tires and defended the pick mercilessly. Hell, this whole thing started off as me refuting a claim that we have players who play like him. I know how special he is. I was merely stating how Erixon is the CLOSEST thing we have on this roster to Murray. I think they will both eventually have a similar offensive impact, but Murray's overall impact on the team will dwarf that of Tim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Murray's offense will surprise people. He has a calm demeanor with the puck and makes very good passes, combined with his intelligence. He won't be Kris Letang or Erik Karlsson, but I certainly don't put it out of the realm of possibility that he's a 50 point defenseman in the NHL ... especially if we can build up some talent around him.
I like the Duncan Keith comparison myself. Murray plays an NHL style game, and I think people don't understand how well he can do offensively quite simply because he can almost think the game too fast for the kids in Juniors. Guys who think at an NHL pace will be rewarded by Murray with timely, precise passes from the point or half-wall to prime scoring areas. However, until we have legitimate offensive threats like Chicago does, I don't think he'll reach the level of production of Keith. I could certainly see him hitting 50 points, but not for a long time. This is why I believe he and Tim will produce at around the same clip, at least for a while. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong either way, but this is what I believe right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Give me best guesses for these on an A - F scale:

Skating:
Defensive Positioning:
Hitting/Checking/Board Play:
Breakout Passing:
Acumen in the Offensive Zone:
I guess this wasn't directed at me in particular, but I'd like to weigh in while I'm at it.

Skating: A+ .... Almost a flawless skater. Extremely smooth.
Defensive Positioning: A .... He simply just knows where to be. Part of why his IQ is regarded so highly.
Hitting: C .... Not very physical, but he makes up for it...
Checking: A .... ..with his checking ability. These two terms are often considered synonymous, however checking is mostly in reference to separating the puck from the player, as opposed to separating the player from the puck with a big hit. This can be done with the stick or by sticking your rear in front of the player and gaining body position, both of which Murray excels at.
Boardplay: A/A- .... This is the trickiest one for me. Kind of just goes along with checking.
Breakout: A .... He can see plays develop before most players and has an extremely precise passing ability. Makes for a good breakout player.
Offensive Zone: B .... I don't quite see him as the guy who will actively be leading the charge offensively, however 9/10 times he will simply make the "right" play, which sometimes goes undetected, but will pay off when done over and over.

Hope that helps.

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:32 PM
  #662
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Old
03-30-2013, 02:39 PM
  #663
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Old
03-30-2013, 04:39 PM
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
For Sore, since I know he watches a lot of WHL Hockey and he was trying to alleviate some worries I had draft night about Ryan:

Is Murray regarded as a Top pairing defenseman, minus the elite offensive cabilities, In your opinion?

And

Give me best guesses for these on an A - F scale:

Skating:
Defensive Positioning:
Hitting/Checking/Board Play:
Breakout Passing:
Acumen in the Offensive Zone:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Skating: A+ .... Almost a flawless skater. Extremely smooth.
Defensive Positioning: A .... He simply just knows where to be. Part of why his IQ is regarded so highly.
Hitting: C .... Not very physical, but he makes up for it...
Checking: A .... ..with his checking ability. These two terms are often considered synonymous, however checking is mostly in reference to separating the puck from the player, as opposed to separating the player from the puck with a big hit. This can be done with the stick or by sticking your rear in front of the player and gaining body position, both of which Murray excels at.
Boardplay: A/A- .... This is the trickiest one for me. Kind of just goes along with checking.
Breakout: A .... He can see plays develop before most players and has an extremely precise passing ability. Makes for a good breakout player.
Offensive Zone: B .... I don't quite see him as the guy who will actively be leading the charge offensively, however 9/10 times he will simply make the "right" play, which sometimes goes undetected, but will pay off when done over and over.
Really, this is pretty spot on. I can't see anything here that I would change personally ... it's clear to me that LS has done his homework on this player.

As for skating, Murray ranks as good - or better - than every other player I have ever seen in junior hockey. He doesn't take off with breakaway speed, but he is perennially moving at a higher pace than it looks like he is, and he never seems to lose speed - even when turning. Keeping up with guys like Nail Yakupov is no problem for this guy ... he's been compared, favorably, to Scott Niedermayer in this department, and this is a player that I know he's said he wants to model his game after.

His hitting/checking/board play won't wow anyone the way it does with a guy like Griffin Reinhart, but he is effective at separating player from puck, and then has the hands and feet to turn the play the other way quickly. The thing that used to amaze me (but I've gotten used to expecting) is his ability to take the puck away, one on one, and then beat the guy he took the puck from back in the other direction, usually leading the rush himself. His defensive positioning is superb, really about as good as it gets ... his skating allows him to always be in the right place.

In the offensive zone, again he won't wow you, but he is absolutely capable of quarterbacking a very good powerplay, and I really feel like if he had more skill around him in Everett, we would have seen some huge numbers this year. As it stood, at the time of his injury, he was leading his team in scoring - and remained there until almost two weeks after his injury. He doesn't have a booming shot that has become typical of NHL defensemen recently, but he does have a knack for getting the puck through traffic and on net, creating havoc down low. He has a laser for a wrist shot, and the smarts to know when to jump in and use it.

I really believe that this guy has a very good chance to be the best player taken from last summer's draft. Time will either prove me right or wrong.

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03-30-2013, 06:27 PM
  #665
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Personally i think of Ryan Suter when it comes to Murray. Yes there are a lot of differences in their games but i mean in the way they aren't always flashy, won't always be looking to lay someone out and isn't know as being offensive guys. At the same time its very rare they are ever in the wrong place, very good with the stick, can eat up minutes and guys that when you look at the stat sheet you're kinda like wow where did that come from. I think he'd be perfect to pair with Johnson or Moore whenever he decides to start taking more of a charge offensively.

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03-30-2013, 07:37 PM
  #666
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I was very happy with the Murray pick and I'm optimistic that the reason he was picked #2 will be clear over the next few years.

That said, it's a little nerve-wracking to have a top 2 pick (which is supposed to be in slam dunk territory) miss a whole year of development due to injury. No matter what his previous scouting reports say, or what the usual prognosis is for these type of injuries, there is going to be some just cause for angst around here until we all see how he looks when he returns.

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03-30-2013, 07:47 PM
  #667
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Talent and depth on defense is the backbone of Columbus Blue Jackets Top 20 ranking
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...op-20-ranking/

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03-30-2013, 09:22 PM
  #668
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When ive seen Ryan Murray I see Dan Hamhuis. But that's probably an insult.

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03-30-2013, 09:24 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Murray's offense will surprise people. He has a calm demeanor with the puck and makes very good passes, combined with his intelligence. He won't be Kris Letang or Erik Karlsson, but I certainly don't put it out of the realm of possibility that he's a 50 point defenseman in the NHL ... especially if we can build up some talent around him.
Murray actually has some impressive moves. Before he was hurt he was showing what looked to me like serious flash with his dekes and dangles, something that didn't show up at all in his draft year scouting reports. I think those reports gave a lot of folks the impression that Murray is just a safe pick, with Dan Hamhuis upside. That's why people didn't want to take him at #2. (I was a Galchenyuk guy, and I'm still at least on the fence between those two players, but Murray is more toolsy than I was initially led to believe).

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03-30-2013, 09:38 PM
  #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
When ive seen Ryan Murray I see Dan Hamhuis. But that's probably an insult.
Not an insult, Hamhuis is a quality player. But how would you describe Dan Hamhuis' playing style?

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03-30-2013, 09:41 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Talent and depth on defense is the backbone of Columbus Blue Jackets Top 20 ranking
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...op-20-ranking/
Hey this version isn't embarrassingly bad!

It's like Hockeysfuture has almost caught up with this board's rankings of our prospects. They are usually a year or so behind (such as having Savard ahead of Atkinson and company until now).

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03-30-2013, 10:22 PM
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Murray being lower than Rielly and Reinhart isn't surprising to me in the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
When ive seen Ryan Murray I see Dan Hamhuis. But that's probably an insult.
The first comment is an insult, because you're taking another opportunity to tout other players over him for no reason other than the fact that you didn't see the player you wanted selected with that pick. The second comment is an honest opinion, combined with an attempt to make people feel sorry for you and take your side.

Dan Hamhuis isn't an unfair comparison at all, and in fact it's entirely possible that Ryan Murray turns into that type of player. There are subtle differences in their playstyle, but I would classify Hamhuis as a top pairing, shutdown style defenseman.

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03-30-2013, 10:27 PM
  #673
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Talent and depth on defense is the backbone of Columbus Blue Jackets Top 20 ranking
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...op-20-ranking/
Really, while we may not have any home-run type prospects outside of maybe Ryan Murray, there are some very intriguing players on that list. To have a guy like Boone Jenner at #4 is a very good testament to the depth we have in our organ-I-zation.

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03-30-2013, 10:53 PM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
The first comment is an insult, because you're taking another opportunity to tout other players over him for no reason other than the fact that you didn't see the player you wanted selected with that pick. The second comment is an honest opinion, combined with an attempt to make people feel sorry for you and take your side.
Not at all. Rielly and Reinhart are sexier players who have about a half season development over Murray. Murray is what he is on both sides of the puck, and although that's good, HF will rank players with greater offensive upside over that.

And the bolded is simply not true. I've had my fair share of unpopular opinions here, and I defend those opinions. It was more of a sarcastic thing, because I don't need anyone's sympathy, especially over hockey prospects.

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03-30-2013, 10:54 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Talent and depth on defense is the backbone of Columbus Blue Jackets Top 20 ranking
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...op-20-ranking/
I like this list because it now features Prout, Zaar, and Korpisalo. Seems like they finally did their homework.

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