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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk Part 15

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06-08-2012, 07:09 AM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Am I the only one who wants the Habs to select Kevin Roy? Kid looks like he has ridiculous amounts of talent.
He is skilled but I think you are exagerating a bit. His size and skating will be a bit of an issue, he could be another Corey Locke. Worth a late rounder like Cichy.

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06-08-2012, 07:18 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
I bet if we look back at Ryan Getzlaf during his draft year, he was criticized for lacking explosion and foot speed…didn't keep him form becoming a dominant player in the NHL(except for this past year..disappointment). And Getzlaf as a prospect his not even close of what Grigorenko is projected to be.
Getzlaf was a bit inconsistant in his effort, but when he did compete he wasn't afraid to run anybody over or go in traffic. I have to laugh, some of the same people throwing Kaberle under the bus for being soft want a younger, forward version in Grigorenko. At least Kaberle didn't cost the #3 overall pick.

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06-08-2012, 07:24 AM
  #978
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I personally hope they go for Murray if available. A top level defenceman is more valuable on the ice - they play more minutes, and have a more pivotal impact on games than a great centerman. I'm a big proponent of building from the net out. We have a solid goalie, maybe not Patrick Roy caliber, but potentially excellent.

I think if you look back at the best teams, they all had at least one elite defenceman - e.g. Scott Stevens, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger and of course Larry Robinson. Yes, we have some great defensive prospects, so maybe the argument is that we should focus on another position. Value-wise though, I think a great defensive prospect can be traded for more than a great forward prospect (Gainey's horrible trade for Gomez not withstanding; seriously, I'll stand up for Gainey but that particular trade is indefensible. It was hard to try and swallow at the time, but hindsight has made it look even worse). Also, way more forwards are available during free agency than elite defenseman, so it's a bit easier to patch holes that way.

If I were in charge, I'd build a team with great goaltending, the best defensemen I could get my hands on, and a balanced team of tough, gritty forwards that played good 2-way hockey. I'd also throw in 2-3-4 players blessed with that elusive raw scoring talent, but that have character issues or other flaws that prevent them from being indispensible to other teams (ala Kovalev), that can pot a few goals at crucial times and on power plays, and benched when they''re not pulling their weight. Might not be the most "exciting" hockey, but winning is more exciting to me.

I don't think we need a "franchise" center; I think that's mostly for marketing, especially in American cities where they seem to need a "star" in everything. I'd take forward lines full of Koivus, Carbonneaus, Mullers, etc, which are normally available in later rounds.

So, take Murray if available, or maybe one of the other defensive prospects (even trading down a bit if they'll be available), and focus on forwards with the 2nd round picks.

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06-08-2012, 07:30 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
It does matter. Yes they are all going to be great NHL prospects..therefore, who's going to turn out the best NHL player? There's a difference between a 3d overall and a 8th overall theoretically. Can't make a mistake of choosing the wrong franchise player..
I don't think there are any players in this draft that will ultimately be considered "franchise players".

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06-08-2012, 07:37 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
I personally hope they go for Murray if available. A top level defenceman is more valuable on the ice - they play more minutes, and have a more pivotal impact on games than a great centerman. I'm a big proponent of building from the net out. We have a solid goalie, maybe not Patrick Roy caliber, but potentially excellent.

I think if you look back at the best teams, they all had at least one elite defenceman - e.g. Scott Stevens, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger and of course Larry Robinson. Yes, we have some great defensive prospects, so maybe the argument is that we should focus on another position. Value-wise though, I think a great defensive prospect can be traded for more than a great forward prospect (Gainey's horrible trade for Gomez not withstanding; seriously, I'll stand up for Gainey but that particular trade is indefensible. It was hard to try and swallow at the time, but hindsight has made it look even worse). Also, way more forwards are available during free agency than elite defenseman, so it's a bit easier to patch holes that way.

If I were in charge, I'd build a team with great goaltending, the best defensemen I could get my hands on, and a balanced team of tough, gritty forwards that played good 2-way hockey. I'd also throw in 2-3-4 players blessed with that elusive raw scoring talent, but that have character issues or other flaws that prevent them from being indispensible to other teams (ala Kovalev), that can pot a few goals at crucial times and on power plays, and benched when they''re not pulling their weight. Might not be the most "exciting" hockey, but winning is more exciting to me.

I don't think we need a "franchise" center; I think that's mostly for marketing, especially in American cities where they seem to need a "star" in everything. I'd take forward lines full of Koivus, Carbonneaus, Mullers, etc, which are normally available in later rounds.

So, take Murray if available, or maybe one of the other defensive prospects (even trading down a bit if they'll be available), and focus on forwards with the 2nd round picks.
I'd rather draft Dumba. Nothing against Murray but Dumba's ceiling is just so much higher. In fact, I'd pick Reilly before Murray as well...


Last edited by Fozz: 06-08-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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06-08-2012, 07:38 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I don't think there are any players in this draft that will ultimately be considered "franchise players".
It depends on what you definition of that is. Who is currently a "franchise player" in the NHL?

I think we could see a couple top 20 scorers and 3-4 all star defensemen and maybe an all-star goalie. 20-25 1st line/1st pair/#1 goalie calibre players.

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06-08-2012, 08:16 AM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishmael View Post
I personally hope they go for Murray if available. A top level defenceman is more valuable on the ice - they play more minutes, and have a more pivotal impact on games than a great centerman. I'm a big proponent of building from the net out. We have a solid goalie, maybe not Patrick Roy caliber, but potentially excellent.

I think if you look back at the best teams, they all had at least one elite defenceman - e.g. Scott Stevens, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger and of course Larry Robinson. Yes, we have some great defensive prospects, so maybe the argument is that we should focus on another position. Value-wise though, I think a great defensive prospect can be traded for more than a great forward prospect (Gainey's horrible trade for Gomez not withstanding; seriously, I'll stand up for Gainey but that particular trade is indefensible. It was hard to try and swallow at the time, but hindsight has made it look even worse). Also, way more forwards are available during free agency than elite defenseman, so it's a bit easier to patch holes that way.

If I were in charge, I'd build a team with great goaltending, the best defensemen I could get my hands on, and a balanced team of tough, gritty forwards that played good 2-way hockey. I'd also throw in 2-3-4 players blessed with that elusive raw scoring talent, but that have character issues or other flaws that prevent them from being indispensible to other teams (ala Kovalev), that can pot a few goals at crucial times and on power plays, and benched when they''re not pulling their weight. Might not be the most "exciting" hockey, but winning is more exciting to me.

I don't think we need a "franchise" center; I think that's mostly for marketing, especially in American cities where they seem to need a "star" in everything. I'd take forward lines full of Koivus, Carbonneaus, Mullers, etc, which are normally available in later rounds.

So, take Murray if available, or maybe one of the other defensive prospects (even trading down a bit if they'll be available), and focus on forwards with the 2nd round picks.
Problem is Murray is not elite in anything he does. Simply above average. Good package but he is not Seth Jones or Pietrangelo.

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Old
06-08-2012, 08:18 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Problem is Murray is not elite in anything he does. Simply above average. Good package but he is not Seth Jones or Pietrangelo.
Is Suter Elite at anything? I would use that as a comparable. I would say Murray's skating and hockey sense is elite. Lidstrom was not seen as an explosive player when he was drafted or arrived but his smarts made him great.

I still want Galchenuk and Yakupov first though...Forsberg vs Murray would be a tough one.

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06-08-2012, 08:29 AM
  #984
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Here is my top 3 guys for each pick (I will just list 6 in the 2nd round). I am aware some of the guys may go higher or lower than where I slot them, I am simply going to be using the vicinity of where they were drafted in the Habs mock draft to guess which round they will go.

1st round: Alex Galchenyuk
Teuvo Teravainen
Filip Forsberg

2nd round: Oscar Dansk
Mark Jankowski
Michael Matheson
Jarred Maidens
Tim Bozon
Cristoval Nieves
(HMs, Henrik Samuelsson, Martin Frk, Phil DiGuisseppe, Daniil Zharkov, Mark Winther,

3rd round: Brian Hart
Dylan Blujus
Nikita Gusev
(HMs: Devin Shore, Tomas Hyka, Emil Lundberg, Robbie Baillargeon, Dillon Fournier, Branden Troock, James Melindy)

4th round: Ludvig Nilsson
MacKenzie MacEachern
Samuel Kurker
(HMs: Kevin Roy, Jimmy Vesey, Logan Nelson, Jujhar Khaira,

We have no 5th round selection, if any trades garner us one.
5th round: Anton Zlobin
Zach Stepan
Paul De Jersey
(HMs: Matej Beran, Anthony Stolarz, Hunter Fejes, Matt DeBlouw)

6th round: Patrik Bartosak
Devin Tringale
Austin Wuthrich
(HMs: Dakota Mermis, Graham Black, Gustav Rydahl)

7th round pick (this is only if we acquire one): AJ Michaelson
Jay Dickman
Erik Nemec
(HMs: Alex Gogolev, Ryan Culkin)

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06-08-2012, 08:54 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Getzlaf was a bit inconsistant in his effort, but when he did compete he wasn't afraid to run anybody over or go in traffic. I have to laugh, some of the same people throwing Kaberle under the bus for being soft want a younger, forward version in Grigorenko. At least Kaberle didn't cost the #3 overall pick.
Yes well one of the two is 34, the other 18? Lets just say some of us are cautiously optimistic about the 18 figure and the lack of intensity, while at 34 you're pretty much done not having an ego right?

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06-08-2012, 09:00 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Here is my top 3 guys for each pick (I will just list 6 in the 2nd round). I am aware some of the guys may go higher or lower than where I slot them, I am simply going to be using the vicinity of where they were drafted in the Habs mock draft to guess which round they will go.

1st round: Alex Galchenyuk
Teuvo Teravainen
Filip Forsberg

WTK,

I see your first round choices so I got a what-if for you.

Oilers draft Nail
Columbus get Grig or Murray.

Burke comes aknocking. Offers his 5th and Gardiner or Schenn. Would you do it?

Figuring they would take Gally. Islanders would take Forsberg or Murray.

That leaves you with the rest.

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06-08-2012, 09:03 AM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
WTK,

I see your first round choices so I got a what-if for you.

Oilers draft Nail
Columbus get Grig or Murray.

Burke comes aknocking. Offers his 5th and Gardiner or Schenn. Would you do it?

Figuring they would take Gally. Islanders would take Forsberg or Murray.

That leaves you with the rest.
No. I dont. Schenn is overrated and Gardiner brings nothing that isnt present on our team right now or in the system. I also dont allow my division rival to get the 1st line centre theyre lacking and we are also lacking. This move cripples your play-off chances and helps a division rival. You do not do it.

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06-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #988
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No. I dont. Schenn is overrated and Gardiner brings nothing that isnt present on our team right now or in the system. I also dont allow my division rival to get the 1st line centre theyre lacking and we are also lacking. This move cripples your play-off chances and helps a division rival. You do not do it.
But you still get a choice of either Grigs, TT or Forsberg (one or two ofthose players will be left on the table) and if not Gardiner or Schenn then another prospect in the T.O. system.

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06-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
WTK,

I see your first round choices so I got a what-if for you.

Oilers draft Nail
Columbus get Grig or Murray.

Burke comes aknocking. Offers his 5th and Gardiner or Schenn. Would you do it?

Figuring they would take Gally. Islanders would take Forsberg or Murray.

That leaves you with the rest.
That would be a hard trade to turn down.

Getting a future top 4 d-man for moving down 2 spots...can't see Toronto doing that. At #5 Forsberg or Tervainen is still a very good pick.

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06-08-2012, 09:12 AM
  #990
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I'd say there is a good chance the late 2nd or 3rd rounded are traded for a couple of later picks. I can't remember the last time the Habs didn't make a deal on draft day.

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06-08-2012, 09:22 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Here is my top 3 guys for each pick (I will just list 6 in the 2nd round). I am aware some of the guys may go higher or lower than where I slot them, I am simply going to be using the vicinity of where they were drafted in the Habs mock draft to guess which round they will go.

1st round: Alex Galchenyuk
Teuvo Teravainen
Filip Forsberg

2nd round: Oscar Dansk
Mark Jankowski
Michael Matheson
Jarred Maidens
Tim Bozon
Cristoval Nieves
(HMs, Henrik Samuelsson, Martin Frk, Phil DiGuisseppe, Daniil Zharkov, Mike Winther,

3rd round: Brian Hart
Dylan Blujus
Nikita Gusev
(HMs: Devin Shore, Tomas Hyka, Emil Lundberg, Robbie Baillargeon, Dillon Fournier, Branden Troock, James Melindy)

4th round: Ludvig Nilsson
MacKenzie MacEachern
Samuel Kurker
(HMs: Kevin Roy, Jimmy Vesey, Logan Nelson, Jujhar Khaira,

We have no 5th round selection, if any trades garner us one.
5th round: Anton Zlobin
Zach Stepan
Paul De Jersey
(HMs: Matej Beran, Anthony Stolarz, Hunter Fejes, Matt DeBlouw)

6th round: Patrik Bartosak
Devin Tringale
Austin Wuthrich
(HMs: Dakota Mermis, Graham Black, Gustav Rydahl)

7th round pick (this is only if we acquire one): AJ Michaelson
Jay Dickman
Erik Nemec
(HMs: Alex Gogolev, Ryan Culkin)
Bolded players would make the ideal draft!

Well, except for Grigorenko.

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06-08-2012, 09:24 AM
  #992
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Here is my breakdown for the Habs picks with list of potential choices.

#3
Nail Yakupov
Alexander Galchenyuk
Filip Forsberg
Mikhail Grigorenko

#33
Henrik Samuelsson
Stefan Matteau
Charles Hudon
Mike Winther
Martin Frk
Damon Severson

#51
Brian Hart
Nikita Gusev
Jarrod Maidens
Dalton Thrower
Cristoval Nieves

#64
Dillon Fournier
Gemel Smith
Tomas Hyka
Coda Gordon
Lukas Sutter
Calle Andersson

#94
Adam Pelech
Tanner Richard
Trevor Carrick
Brendan Troock

#154
Gustav Rydahl
Francois Tremblay
Francois Brassard
Marek Langhamer

Bolded players whould make a nice draft!

If they will choose a goalie i prefer to do it with a later pick and try to find a long term project that could grow into something better.

Looking forward to see who they can get!

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06-08-2012, 09:36 AM
  #993
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Hockey Break ‏@***********
Depending on how the first few picks of the draft unfold, some talk that the Habs & Leafs exchange 1st round picks #2012NHLDraft

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06-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Hockey Break ‏@***********
Depending on how the first few picks of the draft unfold, some talk that the Habs & Leafs exchange 1st round picks #2012NHLDraft
I assume that means if Galchenuk goes #1 or 3 the Habs would tarde down #5 or 6 and take Teravainen.

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06-08-2012, 09:39 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Hockey Break ‏@***********
Depending on how the first few picks of the draft unfold, some talk that the Habs & Leafs exchange 1st round picks #2012NHLDraft
Just wanted to post the same thing. I wonder if there is truth to that, what the conditions would be and what the Leafs would have to pay the Habs...Kadri + 5th overall for 3rd overall?

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06-08-2012, 09:40 AM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
Here is my breakdown for the Habs picks with list of potential choices.

#3
Nail Yakupov
Alexander Galchenyuk
Filip Forsberg
Mikhail Grigorenko

#33
Henrik Samuelsson
Stefan Matteau
Charles Hudon
Mike Winther
Martin Frk
Damon Severson

#51
Brian Hart
Nikita Gusev
Jarrod Maidens
Dalton Thrower
Cristoval Nieves

#64
Dillon Fournier
Gemel Smith
Tomas Hyka
Coda Gordon
Lukas Sutter
Calle Andersson

#94
Adam Pelech
Tanner Richard
Trevor Carrick
Brendan Troock

#154
Gustav Rydahl
Francois Tremblay
Francois Brassard
Marek Langhamer

Bolded players whould make a nice draft!

If they will choose a goalie i prefer to do it with a later pick and try to find a long term project that could grow into something better.

Looking forward to see who they can get!
I like your picks, they are all solid choices. I however do not think Yakupov would fall to 3rd. Some of my choices are slightly different, and based on what players I believe will be available at our picks (barring trades by us). The last couple of picks, I would personally focus on some Quebec league or Quebec born players to satisfy the media, and at the same time because they are usually under scouted, we have a much higher chance at a late round gem.


#3 Alexander Galchenyuk
Filip Forsberg
Mikhail Grigorenko

#33 Henrik Samuelsson
Stefan Matteau

#51 Lukas Sutter
Mark Jankowski

#64 Boo Nieves
Gianluca Curcurto

#94 Cedric Paquette
Branden Troock

#154 Kevin Roy
Michael Clarke
Justin Hickman

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06-08-2012, 09:44 AM
  #997
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Just wanted to post the same thing. I wonder if there is truth to that, what the conditions would be and what the Leafs would have to pay the Habs...Kadri + 5th overall for 3rd overall?
I can Colbourne, Gardinier, maybe Schenn as the targetted players we'd want if TOR really wanted to swap picks. But I have a hard time seeing it happen. I mean, either we get Galchenyuk, Yakupov falls to 3rd (I know, isn't likely) or we can select Forsberg. I really don't see a reason to move our pick unless they are willing to give up a sure fire big bodied hard working player

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06-08-2012, 09:45 AM
  #998
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Hockey Break ‏@***********
"He (Teuvo Teravainen) will be a top-5 pick," - A Montreal Canadiens scout #2012NHLDraft
Interesting...wonder who is the odd man out? Grigorenko?

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06-08-2012, 09:46 AM
  #999
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Hockey Break ‏@***********
Depending on how the first few picks of the draft unfold, some talk that the Habs & Leafs exchange 1st round picks #2012NHLDraft
Grigs and Gardiner/Schenn for Gal? I'd do it.

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06-08-2012, 09:46 AM
  #1000
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I can Colbourne, Gardinier, maybe Schenn as the targetted players we'd want if TOR really wanted to swap picks. But I have a hard time seeing it happen. I mean, either we get Galchenyuk, Yakupov falls to 3rd (I know, isn't likely) or we can select Forsberg. I really don't see a reason to move our pick unless they are willing to give up a sure fire big bodied hard working player
I'd prefer Kadri...good hands and grew up a Habs fan

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