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Part V | Marlies vs Admirals | Marlies done.

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06-07-2012, 11:15 PM
  #751
Giuseppe Sallo
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Toronto is CURSED. The hockey gods have spoken.

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06-07-2012, 11:17 PM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Doesn't the AHL follow the same rules as the NHL in terms of icings, offsides, etc? If so, what's worse than losing a game in OT because of a damn stanchion is losing a game off a goal that should have been disallowed.

That puck was shot in offside while the Ads were clearing the zone. No Marlies player deflected the puck so that goal should have been waived off.

I went from being so disheartened for the Marlies to now being pissed off that the refs screwed up a call in such a crucial game.

Or am I missing something from that play?
Interesting point. There were definitely Admiral players inside the blueline when the puck was shot in.

But I'm pretty sure they were out of the zone by the time the puck went in the net. Wouldn't the play no longer be offside in that case?

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06-07-2012, 11:41 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Interesting point. There were definitely Admiral players inside the blueline when the puck was shot in.

But I'm pretty sure they were out of the zone by the time the puck went in the net. Wouldn't the play no longer be offside in that case?
Doesn't matter if the zone is cleared by the time the puck goes into the net. If the puck goes into the net while the shot (which resulted in the goal) was offside, then the goal is disallowed.

However, I pointed out on the Tampa board and someone posted the rule from the actual rule book and it states that if the puck was shot on net on a delayed offside then the goal should be disallowed. The Norfolk player was up the middle of the ice and to me, it's hard to decipher if he attempted a shot on net that went wide or if he intended to clear it off the boards. In that case, I think it's fair that the refs didn't waive the goal off (though who knows if they even realized that the goal was scored on a delayed offside).

Tough way to lose. At this point, I'm just hoping they can avoid a sweep. They've worked damn hard and it's amazing to see what the team has accomplished with so many important players out of the line up and those playing severely hurt. They deserve at least a win for their efforts in these playoffs so I'm hoping they get it.

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06-07-2012, 11:46 PM
  #754
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Come on. Did you really think they actually had a chance with all those critical players injured. That combined with the fact that they are a Toronto team, I think you all knew it would go like this. Sure it's nice to think positive but when all your best players are injured, there is not much of a chance. It sucks, but at least most of them got a long playoff run, something that they won't get with the Leafs.

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06-08-2012, 01:11 AM
  #755
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Come on. Did you really think they actually had a chance with all those critical players injured. That combined with the fact that they are a Toronto team, I think you all knew it would go like this. Sure it's nice to think positive but when all your best players are injured, there is not much of a chance. It sucks, but at least most of them got a long playoff run, something that they won't get with the Leafs.
Well hopefully some of them become Leafs and can be a part of change that sees the Leafs make playoffs.

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06-08-2012, 01:14 AM
  #756
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It sucks we're down 3-0 but it was pretty inevitable that we would end up losing this series.

Norfolk is just a better team + missing Kadri, Frattin, Zigo for long periods of time cost them games and Colborne is definitely playing with an injury.

It's a nice experience nonetheless for the Marlies. Hopefully they can win a game and avoid the sweep because they definitely don't deserve this.

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06-08-2012, 01:17 AM
  #757
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deserved to lose. Our puck transition game is horrible.

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06-08-2012, 01:17 AM
  #758
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It does suck though to go down like this. A goal that shouldn't have counted putting this team into a pretty much hopeless situation. They win this one and hold on then just about anything can happen. At this point it's just a question of whether they can hang in there for a game or two.

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06-08-2012, 01:38 AM
  #759
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That was tough to watch followed by the Cordero mess in the 9th inning. Not a good night for Toronto teams.

Even the Admirals coach said in his presser "the goal made him sick to his stomach as he felt for Scrivens" Eakins said "he would rather be kicked in the nuts with steel toe boots lol.

They gave a good run with an injured line up....

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06-08-2012, 02:27 AM
  #760
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Edit - Revised my stance based on realization that the AHL's rules on delayed offsides are not the same as the NHL's. See this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Doesn't the AHL follow the same rules as the NHL in terms of icings, offsides, etc? If so, what's worse than losing a game in OT because of a damn stanchion is losing a game off a goal that should have been disallowed.

That puck was shot in offside while the Ads were clearing the zone. No Marlies player deflected the puck so that goal should have been waived off.

I went from being so disheartened for the Marlies to now being pissed off that the refs screwed up a call in such a crucial game.

Or am I missing something from that play?
Quote:
Originally Posted by feeel10 View Post
delayed off-side
83.4 Disallowed Goal – If the puck is shot on goal during a delayed off-side, the play shall be allowed to continue under the normal clearing-the-zone rules. Should the puck, as a result of this shot, enter the defending team’s goal during a delayed off-side, either directly or off the goalkeeper, a player or an official on the ice, the goal shall be disallowed as the original shot was off-side. The face-off will be conducted at the face-off spot in the zone closest to the point of origin of the shot or at the nearest face-off spot in the neutral zone adjacent to the attacking zone of the offending team.

The only way an attacking team can score a goal on a delayed off-side situation is if the defending team shoots or puts the puck into their own net without action or contact by the offending team.

Other than in situations involving a delayed off-side and the puck being shot on goal, no goal can be disallowed after the fact for an off-side violation, except for the human factor involved in blowing the whistle.

can anybody explain why the OT goal wasnt disallowed?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26497
I have bolded the important element to consider in the rules.

"during a delayed off-side"

The instant your players touch-up, the play is no longer a delayed off-side. Therefore, the goal stands; the play is not offside.

I'll show Hasek's infamous 'offside goal' for comparison's sake.


Note that the Capitals forward does not clear the zone. The play is therefore still a delayed offside, and the goal does not count.

All that said, that's truly a heartbreaking way to lose a hockey game.

Edit - Revised my stance based on realization that the AHL's rules on delayed offsides are not the same as the NHL's. See this post.

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Last edited by CanadianHockey: 06-08-2012 at 02:53 AM.
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06-08-2012, 02:29 AM
  #761
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Actually I think the goal was illegal.. link http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...loss-in-game-3

Rule 83.4 of the AHL rule book, reads: “If the puck is shot on goal during a delayed off-side, the play shall be allowed to continue under the normal clearing-the-zone rules. Should the puck, as a result of this shot, enter the defending team’s goal during a delayed off-side, either directly or off the goalkeeper, a player or an official on the ice, the goal shall be disallowed as the original shot was off-side. The fact that the attacking team may have cleared the zone prior to the puck entering the goal has no bearing on this ruling.”

So was there a delayed offside call?

Certainly, at the moment the puck went in, there was a sense of confusion in the sold-out rink. The video evidence available on the television broadcast seemed to show one linesman waving off the offside, but was a delayed offside called first? If the linesman blew that call, then, oddly enough, the goal would be legal.

If there was a delayed offside call made, however, and the Marlies contend there was, then the goal should, by rule, have been disallowed.

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06-08-2012, 02:31 AM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
Actually I think the goal was illegal.. link http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...loss-in-game-3

Rule 83.4 of the AHL rule book, reads: “If the puck is shot on goal during a delayed off-side, the play shall be allowed to continue under the normal clearing-the-zone rules. Should the puck, as a result of this shot, enter the defending team’s goal during a delayed off-side, either directly or off the goalkeeper, a player or an official on the ice, the goal shall be disallowed as the original shot was off-side. The fact that the attacking team may have cleared the zone prior to the puck entering the goal has no bearing on this ruling.”

So was there a delayed offside call?

Certainly, at the moment the puck went in, there was a sense of confusion in the sold-out rink. The video evidence available on the television broadcast seemed to show one linesman waving off the offside, but was a delayed offside called first? If the linesman blew that call, then, oddly enough, the goal would be legal.

If there was a delayed offside call made, however, and the Marlies contend there was, then the goal should, by rule, have been disallowed.
As I posted above, the delayed offside is negated when the Admirals forward tags up by leaving the offensive zone. It's technically no longer a delayed offside, and since that rule pertains to only goals scored during delayed offsides, the goal is legal.

Edit - I have revised my stance after seeing the AHL's rules are not the same as the NHL's. See this post.


Last edited by CanadianHockey: 06-08-2012 at 02:46 AM.
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06-08-2012, 02:39 AM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
As I posted above, the delayed offside is negated when the Admirals forward tags up by leaving the offensive zone. It's technically no longer a delayed offside, and since that rule pertains to only goals scored during delayed offsides, the goal is legal.
A referee told me this wasn't the case. His quote:

"No it doesn't matter. The decision is made at the time the puck crosses the blue line. Lets say the "shot" is a slow roller and everyone gets out of the zone before it gets to the net. It's still an immediate whistle when the puck gets to the net."

Here's a scenario: The goalie is pulled for an extra attacker and a player for the leading team is down in the trailing team's corner trying to dig out the puck to score on the empty net. The traiing team's defenceman wins the puck battle and desperately flips it out of the zone, but it is intercepted at center ice. The receiving player flips the puck into the zone towards the empty net. The puck lands at the hashmarks and slowly dribbles into the net. When the player took the shot his teammate was just leaving the corner to get back down ice. But by the time it had landed his teammate had cleared the zone. Goal or No Goal?

I had the exact same thought process as you when I was trying to make sense of this, but his example is a good one.

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06-08-2012, 02:43 AM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
A referee told me this wasn't the case. His quote:

"No it doesn't matter. The decision is made at the time the puck crosses the blue line. Lets say the "shot" is a slow roller and everyone gets out of the zone before it gets to the net. It's still an immediate whistle when the puck gets to the net."

I had the exact same thought process as you when I was trying to make sense of this, but his example is a good one.
Yup, I'm wrong. I was going based on the NHL's wording on disallowed delayed offside goals.

From The AHL rulebook:

Quote:
83.4 Disallowed Goal – If the puck is shot on goal during a delayed offside, the play shall be allowed to continue under the normal clearingthe-zone rules. Should the puck, as a result of this shot, enter the defending team’s goal, either directly or off the goalkeeper, a player or an official on the ice, the goal shall be disallowed as the original shot was off-side. The fact that the attacking team may have cleared the zone prior to the puck entering the goal has no bearing on this ruling.
Note the distinction between the NHL and AHL rules - the NHL rules say 'during a delayed offside' while the AHL omits this, and instead specifies that even if the zone is cleared, the original shot is considered offside, therefore, the goal is disallowed.

My best guess is that the NHL hasn't rewritten that rule since we reverted to tag-up icing, and the original wording assumes the delayed offside continues until the puck is cleared out of the zone.


Last edited by CanadianHockey: 06-08-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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06-08-2012, 03:06 AM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Yup, I'm wrong. I was going based on the NHL's wording on disallowed delayed offside goals.

From The AHL rulebook:



Note the distinction between the NHL and AHL rules - the NHL rules say 'during a delayed offside' while the AHL omits this, and instead specifies that even if the zone is cleared, the original shot is considered offside, therefore, the goal is disallowed.

My best guess is that the NHL hasn't rewritten that rule since we reverted to tag-up icing, and the original wording assumes the delayed offside continues until the puck is cleared out of the zone.
I know I'm dreaming but it would be soo sweet if they were to start a game from the point the bad goal was scored to make sure its done right.

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06-08-2012, 04:54 AM
  #766
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they're only winning cause Frattin, Kadri, Amigo are out

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06-08-2012, 05:55 AM
  #767
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Tough break last night, but to be honest, the better team is leading the series. Missing offence or more in particular Frattin more than anything else.

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06-08-2012, 06:05 AM
  #768
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the difference in this series is not 1 fluke goal.

we are being out coached.

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06-08-2012, 06:28 AM
  #769
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the difference in this series is not 1 fluke goal.

we are being out coached.
Fire Eakins.

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06-08-2012, 06:41 AM
  #770
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
the difference in this series is not 1 fluke goal.

we are being out coached.
I agree with your first statement but I dont believe your getting outcoached your just outmatched. I actually think eakins is doing a really good job of keeping the game close with the style he has the marlies playing.

The admirals kill with speed.... But the marlies are staying back even when they are on offense they have been sure not to get caught deep very often and it's because you cant or you will give up alot of odd man rushes because the ads are so fast. Personally i wish frattin and kadri were in this series because it would be alot more fun to watch if the marlies would open up the offense a little bit and I think it would have been fast paced back and forth. Not that I believe it would change the outcome of the series because thats how norfolk prefers to play....just my opinion

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06-08-2012, 06:48 AM
  #771
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Admirals look like a soccer team out there diving around every time they are touched. They are a pretty solid veteran AHL team but ****, lay off the diving. It's embarrassing.

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06-08-2012, 07:21 AM
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
the difference in this series is not 1 fluke goal.

we are being out coached.
true, but not much shame in that. cooper has outcoached all others in the ahl this year.

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06-08-2012, 07:59 AM
  #773
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Was at the game last nite. Disheartening is all I can say. Scrivens and our D were fantastic. Forwards - non so much.The officiating was just awful throughout the game.

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06-08-2012, 08:11 AM
  #774
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Yikes. What a way to lose.

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06-08-2012, 09:06 AM
  #775
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Difficult as it is, we just have to put that game behind us and move forward.

Reminder, tomorrow's Game is a 3pm start, Leafs TV and Sportsnet 1, AM640.

http://www.marlies.ca/index.asp

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