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Best Red Wings, Avs, and Devils teams?

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06-01-2012, 11:06 PM
  #1
SnowblindNYR
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Best Red Wings, Avs, and Devils teams?

From 95-03 only 4 teams won the cup. 3 of them winning the cup multiple cups. For the purpose of this thread, with all due respect to the Stars I only bring up the teams that won multiple cups. Which Red Wings team was the best 97, 98, or 02 (the 08 team wasn't from that era and was too different IMO)? Which Avs team was better 96 or 01? Which Devils team was the best 95, 00, or 03? What do y'all think?

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06-01-2012, 11:28 PM
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'01 Devils IMO (as best Devils team of the time period..)

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06-02-2012, 12:04 AM
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on paper, it's 00, 01, 02. but i go with the 97 wings. they only lost six games and had been together asmore of a team, if you know what i mean.

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06-02-2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
on paper, it's 00, 01, 02. but i go with the 97 wings. they only lost six games and had been together asmore of a team, if you know what i mean.
I thought the 97 Wings lost only 4 games and the 98 Wings lost 6.

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06-02-2012, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
'01 Devils IMO (as best Devils team of the time period..)
Best regular season team, but only because of all the big trades the team made at the 2000 deadline. The 2000 playoff Devils were clearly the best Devils team IMO. They lost Claude Lemieux and Vladimir Malahkov before 2001, and both were key role players

2000 Devils were much better offensively than 1995 or 2000 and not that far off defensively

As for the Avs, do we include Forsberg for 2001? If we do, I definitely take them - almost as good offensively as 1996 and much better defense. With an injured Forsberg in 2001, it gets interesting

Agree with Vadim about Detroit. 2002 was the best on paper, but 1997 might have been just as good as a team. Wings lost Konstantinov and downgraded from Vernon to Osgood between 1997 and 1998, so I think 1998 was definitely the worst of the 3 wings teams in question

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06-02-2012, 12:34 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Speaking of the 01 Devils, how did they lose 6 in a row in the regular season? I seem to remember an injury to I want to say Elias, am I right? That was the first season I was following hockey regularly so I remember that team relatively well.

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06-02-2012, 12:41 AM
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1997 Red Wings > 1998 Red Wings > 2002 Red Wings
2000 Devils > 1995 Devils > 2003 Devils
2001 Avalanche (with or without Forsberg) > 1996 Avalanche

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06-02-2012, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Speaking of the 01 Devils, how did they lose 6 in a row in the regular season? I seem to remember an injury to I want to say Elias, am I right? That was the first season I was following hockey regularly so I remember that team relatively well.
It was early in the season, right? Jason Arnott and Scott Niedermayer both held out the first 1/4 of the season. As the team struggled, the crowd would chant "we want Arnott!"

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06-02-2012, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
1997 Red Wings > 1998 Red Wings > 2002 Red Wings
2000 Devils > 1995 Devils > 2003 Devils
2001 Avalanche (with or without Forsberg) > 1996 Avalanche
Agree about Devils. Wings? I really think 2002 was better than 1998

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06-02-2012, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
It was early in the season, right? Jason Arnott and Scott Niedermayer both held out the first 1/4 of the season. As the team struggled, the crowd would chant "we want Arnott!"
Yeah it was early in the season. I remembered the Devils not having someone in, I guess that was it.

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06-02-2012, 02:23 AM
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Agree about Devils. Wings? I really think 2002 was better than 1998
That 2002 team had two legitimate playoff scares (Vancouver, Colorado) from which it took some apocalyptically bad goals to recover. In 1998, once Khabibulin went down in the first series, that team was on cruise control the rest of the way. Maybe with a healthy Khabibulin and Nieuwendyk, I'd see it differently, but that looked to be a pretty stress-free run to the Cup in which they were completely unified. I think they would've gone through brick walls to win with that Believe patch on their jerseys.

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06-02-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
That 2002 team had two legitimate playoff scares (Vancouver, Colorado) from which it took some apocalyptically bad goals to recover. In 1998, once Khabibulin went down in the first series, that team was on cruise control the rest of the way. Maybe with a healthy Khabibulin and Nieuwendyk, I'd see it differently, but that looked to be a pretty stress-free run to the Cup in which they were completely unified. I think they would've gone through brick walls to win with that Believe patch on their jerseys.
2002 was the strongest of the cup teams in terms of power.

Shanahan - Yzerman - Fedorov
Robitaille - Larionov - Holmström
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Deveraux - Datsyuk - Hull

Lidström - Chelios
Olausson - Dushesne
Fischer - Dandenault

Hasek
Legace

the '97 team is obviously not far behind but if there were a team you knew would win the cup it was the 2002 edition of the Detroit Red Wings

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06-02-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
2002 was the strongest of the cup teams in terms of power.

Shanahan - Yzerman - Fedorov
Robitaille - Larionov - Holmström
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Deveraux - Datsyuk - Hull

Lidström - Chelios
Olausson - Dushesne
Fischer - Dandenault

Hasek
Legace

the '97 team is obviously not far behind but if there were a team you knew would win the cup it was the 2002 edition of the Detroit Red Wings
Was Hull really on the 4th line? He had 30 goals that season. Datsyuk I get since he was young.

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06-02-2012, 01:25 PM
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Devils - The 2000 team. You got to pick them. Stevens was on a tear and the "A" line existed then too. Brodeur was solid every Cup win anyway so it doesn't matter. But in all honesty, the 2001 Devils were better than the Cup winning 2003 and 1995 teams.

Avs - 2001 team. That team was on a mission from training camp. Sakic won the Hart, Roy had a Vezina like season, there was Foote, Bourque and the late edition of Blake which formed a modern day version of the Habs "big 3" (jokingly Blake said he was called "Big Bird" for Robinson). And of course Forsberg. But the complementary parts were better than 1996. Tanguay, Hejduk, Drury, etc.

Red Wings - 2002 team. I'm sorry, but how could it not be? They knocked off the Cup champs in 7 games and yeah maybe a fluky goal helped them with Vancouver and Colorado but there is nothing to say they don't win the series without them. That team was just completely stacked.
The 1997 team over the 1998 team though. One year removed from a 131 point season. Yzerman, Fedorov and Shanahan were all better players then. Lidstrom wasn't, but Vernon played very well and arguably better than Hasek in 2002. They also beat a better team in the final than the 1998 team.

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06-02-2012, 01:51 PM
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You have to look at how the team actually played in the playoffs and not just the rosters. The 96 Red Wings team is probably the best built rosterwise in the last 20 years but they played very poorly in the playoffs.

02 Wings are an overrated team because of the star power. Guys like Chelios and Hull and Robitaille were way past their best, Datsyuk wasnt great yet, Hasek was obv not playing like Hasek of the 90s. Yzerman was literally on his last legs. Only Lidstrom was at his best. Larionov and Shanahan had played better in the 90s. Fedorov was resurgent though.

I think 97 Wings are definitely better. 98 Wings is a closer call with a clearly weaker roster but the same drive as in 97.

The 08 team may honestly be the best of them all.

I never really cared to follow the Devils but their 95 team playing wise was definitely something to behold. I think Detroit was the better team (not by as much as was thought at the time obv) but was banged up and sucked while the Devils really played their hearts out.

For Avs 01. Even without Forsberg for part of the playoffs that team was dominant. Given that Bourque has been coming up yet again on these boards id like to point out that Bourque coming in 00 didnt push the Avs to anything. It was Blake in 01 who was their best D in the playoffs that did though.

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06-02-2012, 02:14 PM
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02 Wings are an overrated team because of the star power. Guys like Chelios and Hull and Robitaille were way past their best, Datsyuk wasnt great yet, Hasek was obv not playing like Hasek of the 90s. Yzerman was literally on his last legs. Only Lidstrom was at his best. Larionov and Shanahan had played better in the 90s. Fedorov was resurgent though.
To be fair, Chelios and Lidstrom were first team all-stars and Shanahan was a 2nd team all-star. Hasek, Hull, Robitaille were still good players. Yzerman played spectacular in 2002 although he was never the same afterwards. That team was just really deep. Adding Duchesne helped as well. Olausson was another. Not to mention having role players still there like Draper and Maltby and Holmstrom.

But the big thing is also the regular season. All year that was the best hockey team in the NHL. They had 116 points when the only other two teams to crack 100 were Boston (101) and Toronto (100). That's some serious seperation there.

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06-02-2012, 03:14 PM
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Red Wings - 2002 team. I'm sorry, but how could it not be? They knocked off the Cup champs in 7 games
Calling the 2002 Avalanche the "Cup champs" is like calling the 2007 Hurricanes the "Cup champs;" they were clearly inferior to the squads that won the championship in the previous season. Give me the 1997 Wings that beat Patrick Roy at the top of his game in 6 games (he doesn't exactly lose a series in less than 7 that often) They embarrassed an Avalanche team that was even better than they were in 1996. Those Red Wings might be the best team in this thread.

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06-02-2012, 03:50 PM
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Calling the 2002 Avalanche the "Cup champs" is like calling the 2007 Hurricanes the "Cup champs;" they were clearly inferior to the squads that won the championship in the previous season. Give me the 1997 Wings that beat Patrick Roy at the top of his game in 6 games (he doesn't exactly lose a series in less than 7 that often) They embarrassed an Avalanche team that was even better than they were in 1996. Those Red Wings might be the best team in this thread.
Second best team in the conference and missing only Bourque and Deadmarsh iirc. Oh my, how far away from cup champs they were

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06-02-2012, 03:54 PM
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Was Hull really on the 4th line? He had 30 goals that season. Datsyuk I get since he was young.
That's just how deep the '02 Wings were.

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06-02-2012, 03:57 PM
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Second best team in the conference and missing only Bourque and Deadmarsh iirc. Oh my, how far away from cup champs they were
Deadmarsh wasn't on the 2001 team (Blake), they were a below average offensive team that scored at a lower rate in the playoffs even with Forsberg, Roy and Sakic were playing half as well as they did in 2001, and Jon Klemm was legitimately their second-best player in the playoffs. But then again, I could've stopped at Deadmarsh, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about in confusing a team with a -2 goal differential with one that only fell behind in the score by two goals once in 23 games.

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06-02-2012, 04:01 PM
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Deadmarsh wasn't on the 2001 team (Blake), they were a below average offensive team that scored at a lower rate in the playoffs even with Forsberg, Roy and Sakic were playing half as well as they did in 2001, and Jon Klemm was legitimately their second-best player in the playoffs. But then again, I could've stopped at Deadmarsh, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about in confusing a team with a -2 goal differential with one that only fell behind in the score by two goals once in 23 games.
Oh how completely off I were for not thinking of the Blake trade Sorry but Avs still made the conference finals, won their division and placed 2nd or 3rd in the conference, so no they werent far from being the cup champs again.

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06-02-2012, 04:14 PM
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Oh how completely off I were for not thinking of the Blake trade Sorry but Avs still made the conference finals, won their division and placed 2nd or 3rd in the conference, so no they werent far from being the cup champs again.
On what planet does finishing five points above 8th place and playing worse in the playoffs equate to winning a President's Trophy, scoring three goals-per-game without Peter Forsberg, and having a 1st Team All-Star defenseman?

Just because Joe Sakic scores 118 points in 2001 does not ensure he won't score 40 fewer in 2002. Look at the performances instead of the names - which is probably why you're all giddy for a team because they picked up three HOFers in their twilights who weren't as relevant as Bourque was in his.

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06-02-2012, 05:01 PM
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On what planet does finishing five points above 8th place and playing worse in the playoffs equate to winning a President's Trophy, scoring three goals-per-game without Peter Forsberg, and having a 1st Team All-Star defenseman?

Just because Joe Sakic scores 118 points in 2001 does not ensure he won't score 40 fewer in 2002. Look at the performances instead of the names - which is probably why you're all giddy for a team because they picked up three HOFers in their twilights who weren't as relevant as Bourque was in his.


Hull was 4th in scoring during the playoffs with 2 GWs and 5 EVs. How irrelevant compared to Bourque who played good to great defense but not much else.

Hasek was also more important than Bourque.

and what do Sakic production have to with it? I guess the Avs were favorites in '07 then according to your logic.

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06-02-2012, 05:35 PM
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Was Hull really on the 4th line? He had 30 goals that season. Datsyuk I get since he was young.
Among forwards Hull was 4th in ice time behind Fedorov, Yzerman and Shanahan in both playoffs and season. He played 18-19 Mins a game compared to Holmstrom's 11-12.

Burying Hull would have been a waste of the playoffs' top goal scorer.

In that playoff run he did play ES minutes with Devereaux and Datsyuk, but also played with Larionov, Yzerman, Fedorov, and Robitaille. The lines were fairly fluid, and the only guy I don't recall him playing with are the Grind Line guys.

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06-02-2012, 05:39 PM
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Among forwards Hull was 4th in ice time behind Fedorov, Yzerman and Shanahan in both playoffs and season. He played 18-19 Mins a game compared to Holmstrom's 11-12.

Burying Hull would have been a waste of the playoffs' top goal scorer.

In that playoff run he did play ES minutes with Devereaux and Datsyuk, but also played with Larionov, Yzerman, Fedorov, and Robitaille. The lines were fairly fluid, and the only guy I don't recall him playing with are the Grind Line guys.
Obviously Bowman would never resort to having permanently set lines and guys like Hull played with more guys than just those two. Same for the rest of team.

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