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Old
06-02-2012, 11:59 PM
  #101
DoctrSteveBrule
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wow this thread was really enlightening.

I learned that Staal produces the the same as an average 2nd line center. Thats pretty nifty considering he plays on the 3rd line, with terrible wingers and in a defensive specialist role. Imagine what he could do if his talents were better utilized, in say, a top 6 role...

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06-03-2012, 12:19 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewskiv View Post
J.Staal to Calgary for 1st 14th overall M. Backlund. A. Babchuk

pls dont hate i belive this is fair value helps both teams
Id do it, ill even throw it stajan

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06-03-2012, 03:27 AM
  #103
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Yes, thank you. I was going to respond to the previous post but realized it's not even worth it anymore. People just don't know any better and assume the only way to build a decent team is to suck hard for a few years and get high draft picks.
No it's not the only way to build a team, however that link is being pretty generous with it's rankings. I'd rank the Flames closer to 27th than 23. However even at 23 they're still well into the bottom half of the league.

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06-03-2012, 03:33 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Okay, go tell Islander fans about your proven rebuild method. Or Thrasher/Jet supporters. Or Oilers. Finishing dead last isn't the only way to be a successful team.

The Flames are fine. Finished 1 point out of being the 2nd best Canadian team and came closer to bringing a cup back to Canada than anyone else since the Canadiens did. Without ever drafting top 5 for as long as I can remember.

Flames>Oilers
Flames>>>Leafs
Stajan>Dion Phaneuf
LOL. The Oilers made it to game 7 just as you did... so what makes you better? Also Stajan isn't better than Phanuef (as much as I dislike him). Stajan is barely a 2nd line center. DP is easily a top 4 D.

Also I'm not sure how you consider the Flames to be better than the Oilers. The link you provided says the Oilers are #4 while the Flames are #26. Anyone with a brain knows the Oilers will be the next team to beat (within 2-3 years). The Flames will continue to be irrelevant within that time frame.

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06-03-2012, 03:43 AM
  #105
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We don't want your expendable crap for Staal.

Sincerely,
Pens Fans Everywhere

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Old
06-03-2012, 03:52 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
wow this thread was really enlightening.

I learned that Staal produces the the same as an average 2nd line center. Thats pretty nifty considering he plays on the 3rd line, with terrible wingers and in a defensive specialist role. Imagine what he could do if his talents were better utilized, in say, a top 6 role...
Staal got top six ice time this year.

Malkin was the only forward on the Penguins who played more even strength minutes per game than him.

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06-03-2012, 06:01 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
LOL. The Oilers made it to game 7 just as you did... so what makes you better? Also Stajan isn't better than Phanuef (as much as I dislike him). Stajan is barely a 2nd line center. DP is easily a top 4 D.

Also I'm not sure how you consider the Flames to be better than the Oilers. The link you provided says the Oilers are #4 while the Flames are #26. Anyone with a brain knows the Oilers will be the next team to beat (within 2-3 years). The Flames will continue to be irrelevant within that time frame.
The flames are better than the oilers cause we beat yu guys head ti head and in the standings every year. flames came closer yo cup cause of the non goal scored by gelinas that should have ended the series in game 6.

the oilers will never again be the team to beat cause no one wants to play there except ryan smyth.

stajan is better than phaneuf at what the flames use him.for thab what dion does. hence i value him higher. plus stajan was the best flame on the ice the last few weeks of the season when.mpved.to top 6 role because of the insane amount of flame.injuries.

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Old
06-03-2012, 06:03 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Haha, I remember when he was the next Dennis Potvin, better than Scott Stevens and Flames fans wouldn't trade him for Crosby or Malkin.

My how the mighty have fallen.
Find one from one me. i always said phaneuf would be a pronger type or a brian mccabe type. turned into mccabe.

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Old
06-03-2012, 06:29 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
The flames are better than the oilers cause we beat yu guys head ti head and in the standings every year. flames came closer yo cup cause of the non goal scored by gelinas that should have ended the series in game 6.

the oilers will never again be the team to beat cause no one wants to play there except ryan smyth.

stajan is better than phaneuf at what the flames use him.for thab what dion does. hence i value him higher. plus stajan was the best flame on the ice the last few weeks of the season when.mpved.to top 6 role because of the insane amount of flame.injuries.
One of my favorite posts of all time.

yo cup

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Old
06-03-2012, 10:57 AM
  #110
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Iginla and Giordano

for

Staal and Martin


No?

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Old
06-03-2012, 11:04 AM
  #111
Johnny Hoxville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Iginla and Giordano

for

Staal and Martin


No?
How about a HELL NO

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Old
06-03-2012, 11:08 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
The flames are better than the oilers cause we beat yu guys head ti head and in the standings every year. flames came closer yo cup cause of the non goal scored by gelinas that should have ended the series in game 6.

the oilers will never again be the team to beat cause no one wants to play there except ryan smyth.

stajan is better than phaneuf at what the flames use him.for thab what dion does. hence i value him higher. plus stajan was the best flame on the ice the last few weeks of the season when.mpved.to top 6 role because of the insane amount of flame.injuries.
So much fail.
Get over the goal. Oilers went 7. Sens went 5 (although were never really "in" that series). Vancouver went 7. Don't spout some crap how the Flames were the closest team to bringing a cup to Canada because that's simply not true. They had a good run and have nothing since.

Look I hate Vancouver, but am at least honest enough to admit they have a talented team. Anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain can look at the Oilers roster and acknowledge that they have some very very talented players who are very young. This team will be very good in the very near future.

LOL... Your justification that Stajan > Phaneuf is that Stajan is better as an overpaid 3rd liner? Or that he played better once it was in the top 6 (so in other words he couldn't even crack Calgary's crappy top 6). Stajan had half the points Phaneuf had and Dion's a D. Sure he makes mistakes, and gets a lot of crap and abuse. But he's not that bad. I wouldn't want him as my #1D, but he's not so bad that he couldn't play on my team.

Oh and learn to spell. Those little squiggly red lines under half your text should be a warning sign.

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Old
06-03-2012, 12:04 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svensational View Post
Ends with NO



Starting point? Keep dreaming. Gio is our best D.



We are improving. Looking forward to this years draft.



Your right, Iginla would get more. 1st round picks and a top 6 roster player.
A fair deal would be more like...Bennett, Tangradi, & a 1st for Iginla. No matter how much Flames fans want his value to be that's around what it is most likely. At this point they should take it run because his value isn't getting any higher.

Staal only scored 17 less points in 20 less games, is over a entire decade younger, better defensively & still developing.

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Old
06-03-2012, 12:12 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Iginla and Giordano

for

Staal and Martin


No?
Jesus NO!

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06-03-2012, 12:49 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Iginla and Giordano

for

Staal and Martin


No?
The only way the Pens would trade for Iginla would be, if the Flames excepted futures for him. There is simply no way to make your team better now by trading away 23 yo tentpole players.

Maybe if one of those before draft day trades for Staal inlcuding high picks was to happen, it might be an idea to flip something like top10 pick + Tangradi or whatever forward prospect for Iginla. IDK, it would strictly be a stacking Sid's line for one or two more cup runs move, so there is no way Staal would be involved. Thinking out loud here...

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Old
06-03-2012, 01:01 PM
  #116
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Staal got top six ice time this year.

Malkin was the only forward on the Penguins who played more even strength minutes per game than him.
Yeah, and Staal produced 50 points in only 62 games because of that. Funny how ice time in a top six role results in a career high in points and on pace for a career high in goals, eh?

You kind of made our point for us. When Staal is given actual top six minutes, he proved he can produce much better than when he's relegated to 3rd line duties.

So it's not a stretch to suggest that based on the above, if Staal got 1st line minutes on another team, his production would also be much better than what he's produced for the Pens thus far.

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Old
06-03-2012, 04:03 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svensational View Post
Ends with NO



Starting point? Keep dreaming. Gio is our best D.



We are improving. Looking forward to this years draft.



Your right, Iginla would get more. 1st round picks and a top 6 roster player.
there is so much wrong with this post, lol.

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Old
06-03-2012, 04:15 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Okay, go tell Islander fans about your proven rebuild method. Or Thrasher/Jet supporters. Or Oilers. Finishing dead last isn't the only way to be a successful team.

The Flames are fine. Finished 1 point out of being the 2nd best Canadian team and came closer to bringing a cup back to Canada than anyone else since the Canadiens did. Without ever drafting top 5 for as long as I can remember.

Flames>Oilers
Flames>>>Leafs
Stajan>Dion Phaneuf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
The Oilers rebuild sucks ass. Very happy that our team's ownership would rather try to win than **** the bed and give up every season with hopes of lottery picks.

The Flames are a team who just missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons who lost significant time to their impact players. Our prospect pool isn't as shallow as people like to say, just low on high end offensive talent, but Feaster made it obvious last draft that he's addressing that problem (Bartschi, Granlund, Gaudreau).

Not to mention, last off season the Flames were the "runner up" in the Brad Richards sweepstakes, and it's almost guaranteed that with that #1 centre they would have been a playoff team.

The Flames also have a new coach, who, hopefully utilizes his talent a little better.

Love how people jump on the hate the Flames bandwagon when they probably didn't watch a Flames game all season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Says who? *The Oilers have no #1 centre, no goaltending, no defensemen... *They show no signs of blowing by the Flames. *Hell, they show no signs of blowing by anyone. *Their rebuild is a long, drawn out, failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
The flames are better than the oilers cause we beat yu guys head ti head and in the standings every year. *flames came closer yo cup cause of the non goal scored by gelinas that should have ended the series in game 6.

the oilers will never again be the team to beat cause no one wants to play there except ryan smyth.

stajan is better than phaneuf at what the flames use him.for thab what dion does. hence i value him higher. plus stajan was the best flame on the ice the last few weeks of the season when.mpved.to top 6 role because of the insane amount of flame.injuries.
Are you COPPA?

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Old
06-03-2012, 04:34 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
When Staal is given actual top six minutes, he proved he can produce much better than when he's relegated to 3rd line duties.

So it's not a stretch to suggest that based on the above, if Staal got 1st line minutes on another team, his production would also be much better than what he's produced for the Pens thus far.
Not to discredit and excellent year, but that first point is true of most shutdown centers who have an offensive side to their games. When Eric Staal got hurt, Brandon Sutter moved up and produced at a significantly higher rate than he did on the third line. However, he has limited playmaking ability (like Jordan) and wouldn't have been a good long-term solution there as he was facing top D pairings.

I think it is a stretch, for that same reason, to think Staal would outproduce this season's production on the first line. That's a big jump to be the central focus vs. being counted on for secondary scoring. J. Staal has more offensive skills at this point than Sutter but the point still holds, IMO.

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06-03-2012, 04:48 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
wow this thread was really enlightening.

I learned that Staal produces the the same as an average 2nd line center. Thats pretty nifty considering he plays on the 3rd line, with terrible wingers and in a defensive specialist role. Imagine what he could do if his talents were better utilized, in say, a top 6 role...
Staal did not play on the 3rd line this year. Due to injuries a lot of his time was spent on the first line. He averaged over 20 minutes a game in TOI this year.

Staal was 16th among all centres in the NHL for TOI/game.

You talk about him like he's a 3rd liner getting 12 minutes a night who never has the chance to shine.

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06-03-2012, 04:58 PM
  #121
TorstenFrings
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Staal did not play on the 3rd line this year. Due to injuries a lot of his time was spent on the first line. He averaged over 20 minutes a game in TOI this year.

Staal was 16th among all centres in the NHL for TOI/game.

You talk about him like he's a 3rd liner getting 12 minutes a night who never has the chance to shine.
Where he ranks in pure TOI is still not an indication of how he was used. Staal eats up almost all shorthanded minutes plus all the toughest competion minutes for Malkin. So he was maybe a second line center (used more defensively than most 2LCs) for the time Crosby was out and only a real 3LC from when Crosby returned. Producing like an average to top 2LC at .81 PPG at only half a season of second line TOI is still an accomplishment.

That first line bit is just BS, unless Malkin won the Art Ross in 20 games and I just was to dazzled by him to notice.

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Old
06-03-2012, 05:00 PM
  #122
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Pittsburgh laughs, hangs up, and laughs some more.
answered one post in

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06-03-2012, 05:04 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by steveott x29* View Post
would you do ....

to pit ......morrow + ryder + 1 round pick #13


to dallas ..... stall + 1round pic # 18


to pit gets a sniper in ryder who got 36 goals last year with riberio
and they also get morrow + move up in the draft

what do you think
the money doesn't work and there's too big an age disparity going back to Pitt. But that's certainly closer than OPs suggestion of a crap D, crap pick and garbage forward.

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Old
06-03-2012, 05:04 PM
  #124
Sidney the Kidney
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I think it is a stretch, for that same reason, to think Staal would outproduce this season's production on the first line. That's a big jump to be the central focus vs. being counted on for secondary scoring. J. Staal has more offensive skills at this point than Sutter but the point still holds, IMO.
But the thing is, even in these scenarios talked about as Staal's possible new location, he wouldn't be the main offensive weapon. He'd still be a secondary scorer, just playing on a higher line than he currently is.

If he ended up in Toronto, Phil Kessel is still the guy who generates the offense. If he ended up on the young Oilers, again, guys like Eberle, Hall or Nugent-Hopkins are the offensive catalysts. Staal wouldn't have to be the guy the other team keyed on, even if he happened to play on the top line. It's kind of like the situation James Neal finds himself in in Pittsburgh. He plays on the top line, but teams don't focus on shutting him down, even though scored 40 goals this year. They focus on shutting down Malkin and Crosby.

I'd agree with your point if Staal was going to a team where he basically had to be "the man" and had to carry the load on offense, but even in the scenarios I've seen, that wouldn't be the case. So Staal would still be in a secondary scoring role, with the main differences being a]he plays with better linemates and b]he would get top unit PP time to "inflate" his stats.

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Old
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
So was Langkow and Conroy in their primes, but they aren't first line centers. Staal is a well rounded 2nd line center.

The "Staal's role" argument is BS. He plays over 20 minutes a night and 2 minutes of PP time a night. He also gets to ride shotgun to Malkin and Crosby at times. He sees 3rd pairing defensemen as well when all 3 are playing center.
None of this is true. Conroy and Langkow never put up 60 points in a 3rd line capacity. Staal faces the toughest competition on the team by a country mile. And the only time Staal would hit the ice with Crosby is if 9 forwards got kicked out of the game or they were between linechanges on powerplay units.

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