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Wherein we pin our salvation on someone besides Guerrero (wallpaper/avys - posts 1&2)

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Old
06-12-2012, 11:42 AM
  #751
shaner89
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Originally Posted by TorontoMarleauLeafs View Post
Latest from MLBTradeRumors:
And there we have, AA is an idiot.

Failed huge this offseason and this was a huge fail with Vladdy.

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06-12-2012, 11:46 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
He played how many games? This is baseball... You can hit well for a week and only record a couple of hits... Thats why they play percentages...


I won't comment on his fielding because watching him run last year was painful, but he's a career .318 hitter in the major leagues... He deserves a shot.

You and I can speculate all we want, but we'll never know unless they try him... And from all indications, he's looked good so far... I would bet if he opts out, he'll be in the majors with another team in the near future.
His career numbers have nothing to do with this season. Vernon Wells is a career .274 hitter, should we re-acquire him and try him in LF? No.

Also, if it really is only a slump he was having at AAA, why not stay down there and show that it was a slump? Start hitting and then you get called up. Thats how it works. He picked the weirdest time to ask for an ultimatum since he only had 1 good game and we're in the middle of interleague play where there is no DH for the next 13 games.

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06-12-2012, 11:47 AM
  #753
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Vlad may be well past his prime but his career suggests he is worth a shot. His bat is still a threat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87
I'm not saying he can't/won't maintain it, I just don't know how comfortable I am giving him big money on a long term deal..

I also don't mind the idea of flipping him for a top prospect or a good young player. (similar to the deal he was aquired in by shipping out Scott Rolen) We always seem to lock up our guys after a good year or two, rather then cashing in on them when their value is highest... If Edwin becomes available in July-August, he'll be one of, if not thee most productive bats on the market..

I'm a huge EE fan, I'm just not sold that giving him a fat contract is best for the organization at this point..
The problem with this is that you're looking at becoming an Oakland A's type franchise...a team that is continuously finding talent, and then trading them away before the team can find success. Right now Encarnacion is looking like a great find, but there's absolutely no guarantee that we can catch lightning in a bottle again if we trade him away.

The Jays have gotten some amazing results from our analysis of undervalued talent. Morrow, Bautista, and Encarnacion were all steals. But we can't fall in love with trades. We won't always win.

Signing Encarnacion is a risk, for sure. Depending on the terms, it looks to me like a risk you have to take in order to move the team forward while Bautista is under contract.

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06-12-2012, 11:48 AM
  #754
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Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
#BlueJays release Vlad at his request, according to agent Bean Stringfellow. He wanted opportunity at major-league level. Not retiring.

A bit of a shame IMO.

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06-12-2012, 12:11 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
He has set a deadline for a call up today. If he s not called up the contarct is done with. He will not report to the minors again

This organization seems like s **** show. AA is failing miserably imo.
LMFAO, because an old Vladdy who may or may not hit basically took his ball and went home, AA is a failure? God, you're hilarious shaner. I'm guessing Morrow's injury is somehow AA's fault too? And Romero's inability to not walk a batter? And I'm guessing, while we're at it, we can blame global warming on AA too?

You're a joke

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:21 PM
  #756
sparxx87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoMarleauLeafs View Post
His career numbers have nothing to do with this season. Vernon Wells is a career .274 hitter, should we re-acquire him and try him in LF? No.

Also, if it really is only a slump he was having at AAA, why not stay down there and show that it was a slump? Start hitting and then you get called up. Thats how it works. He picked the weirdest time to ask for an ultimatum since he only had 1 good game and we're in the middle of interleague play where there is no DH for the next 13 games.
Wells has sucked for sometime though... And at 1.3m, sure I'd take him back.. Vernon was never a bad player, just wasn't worth the money.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about bad timing, but he isn't just a normal minor leaguer... Given his track record, I don't blame him.. If you were considered by many as one of the top 100 hitters to ever play the game and clearly still have some in the tank (by all indications), wouldn't you want the call? I mean, what is he proving?


If this team was overflowing with bats, then I could understand... But aside from EE and Lawrie, the rest of the team has absolutely disgusting batting average...


Worst case scenario - he doesn't hit well and we DFA.

edit: nvm, its official.. Vlad has been released.

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06-12-2012, 12:23 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Quik View Post
LMFAO, because an old Vladdy who may or may not hit basically took his ball and went home, AA is a failure? God, you're hilarious shaner. I'm guessing Morrow's injury is somehow AA's fault too? And Romero's inability to not walk a batter? And I'm guessing, while we're at it, we can blame global warming on AA too?

You're a joke
Is this any different than the time he called Matt Stairs an old loser who should retire? Stairs of course would recover from his slow start and Shaner would then then start calling him a proud Canadian. I don't know if Shaner thinks his rants are funny or amusing but they are not.

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06-12-2012, 12:25 PM
  #758
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why are people crying over Vladdi? He sucked last year. Get this whole beating up on PCL AAA ball as something big, it's nothing. This is like old Leaf mentality. lets bring the oldest player up to kill progress of our youth/

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:33 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Wells has sucked for sometime though... And at 1.3m, sure I'd take him back.. Vernon was never a bad player, just wasn't worth the money.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about bad timing, but he isn't just a normal minor leaguer... Given his track record, I don't blame him.. If you were considered by many as one of the top 100 hitters to ever play the game and clearly still have some in the tank (by all indications), wouldn't you want the call? I mean, what is he proving?


If this team was overflowing with bats, then I could understand... But aside from EE and Lawrie, the rest of the team has absolutely disgusting batting average...


Worst case scenario - he doesn't hit well and we DFA.

edit: nvm, its official.. Vlad has been released.
Vernon Wells got worse because of injuries. The big one being the hamstring injury that would never fully heal. He's not nearly the player he used to be and neither is Vlad. If he was that good someone would have signed him to play with them at the start of the season.

I wouldn't mind Vlad but Cooper is hitting over .300 right now, Lind is doing well at AAA and Snider is coming back as well. I'd rather see one of them play before Vlad right now.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:35 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
why are people crying over Vladdi? He sucked last year. Get this whole beating up on PCL AAA ball as something big, it's nothing. This is like old Leaf mentality. lets bring the oldest player up to kill progress of our youth/
The team has a legit shot at a wildcard spot... Hitting .290 isn't sucking, especially with a bad knee which has since been surgically repaired.

I wouldn't care if they gave him a shot and it wasn't working... But they didn't even give one of the 100 greatest hitters of all time a chance to help them.

NTM the fact that IMO, this team could use a little bit of leadership... He's always been well liked and would be a good morale boost for the young players.


I also think Jose would benefit from having the greatest Dominican hitter of all time sitting next to him....

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:46 PM
  #761
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i would have tried damon or matsui or both if i wanted a cheap vet addition
lefties who can do a few things

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:47 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
The team has a legit shot at a wildcard spot... Hitting .290 isn't sucking, especially with a bad knee which has since been surgically repaired.

I wouldn't care if they gave him a shot and it wasn't working... But they didn't even give one of the 100 greatest hitters of all time a chance to help them.

NTM the fact that IMO, this team could use a little bit of leadership... He's always been well liked and would be a good morale boost for the young players.


I also think Jose would benefit from having the greatest Dominican hitter of all time sitting next to him....
I won't bother with the nonsense intangibles arguments. Bottom line is who do you take out of the lineup for Vlad? LF is not an option.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:50 PM
  #763
sparxx87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captn View Post
Vernon Wells got worse because of injuries. The big one being the hamstring injury that would never fully heal. He's not nearly the player he used to be and neither is Vlad. If he was that good someone would have signed him to play with them at the start of the season.

I wouldn't mind Vlad but Cooper is hitting over .300 right now, Lind is doing well at AAA and Snider is coming back as well. I'd rather see one of them play before Vlad right now.
Fair enough...

If Snider is healthy I definitely take him ahead of Vlad... I'm just not sold on Cooper.. He's overacheived thus far IMO.

I'd like to see

Lawrie
Rasmus
Bautista
Encarnacion (1B)
Johnson
Guererro (DH)
Snider (LF)
Arencibia
Escobar

Ideally Snider hits well and flip-flops with Kelly Johnson. Obviously this is all irrelevant because he's been released, but this is what I would have envisioned.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:56 PM
  #764
p.l.f.
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i like kelly johnson 6th

lawrie
ramus
bautista
encarnacion
cooper / gomes
johnson
arencebia / mathis
snider / davis
escobar

omar

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:56 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Fair enough...

If Snider is healthy I definitely take him ahead of Vlad... I'm just not sold on Cooper.. He's overacheived thus far IMO.

I'd like to see

Lawrie
Rasmus
Bautista
Encarnacion (1B)
Johnson
Guererro (DH)
Snider (LF)
Arencibia
Escobar

Ideally Snider hits well and flip-flops with Kelly Johnson. Obviously this is all irrelevant because he's been released, but this is what I would have envisioned.
wasn't EE horrible at first base?

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06-12-2012, 12:57 PM
  #766
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I'm not sold on Cooper yet either. Pitchers will find a weakness and he won't be hitting over 300 (at least I don't think so), need some more time before we can start counting on some guys like David Cooper and Yan Gomes in my opinion.

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Old
06-12-2012, 01:21 PM
  #767
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wasn't EE horrible at first base?
No, 3rd base... He's been fine at 1st.

He can catch, he just can't throw..

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06-12-2012, 01:44 PM
  #768
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Vlad goes on a rant...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...imir-guerrero/

Quote:
Promises made to me were not fulfilled. I am not a child. One day I heard one thing and the next day another. I left the team, right now I am at home in Anaheim. I was not treated as a professional. I am not a boy. I proved that I’m ready, I have nothing more to prove in the minors with the numbers that I put. Last night after the game I sent my letter of resignation to the organization. I am not a boy. I demand respect. Let me make it clear I did not take this decision lightly, and had warned it would if I was not satisfied
Like I said in the main forum, what a sour puss. Nothing, absolutely nothing was promised to him. Nobody but us wanted him, and he thinks he's just going to walk back into the league?

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06-12-2012, 01:55 PM
  #769
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Maybe it was this attitude that left him unsigned for so long. Nobody could guarantee him a major league job, so he refused to sign anywhere. I have a hard time thinking people just forgot/ignored him. I doubt he gets picked up now after this statement. I thought he was more of a team guy than that. I can't comprehend what he expected of the Jays. Do you think he was fit to have a shot with the club by now? Would he really have been a better call-up than cooper or gomes at this point in the season?

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06-12-2012, 02:04 PM
  #770
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Gomes, back to Vegas. This should mean that Morrow isn't heading to the DL.

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Old
06-12-2012, 02:05 PM
  #771
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Well I don't think he's entitlted to anything (If he signed with us during spring training he would have been up by now), it's gotta hurt when someone like McCoy is up here instead of you.

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06-12-2012, 02:19 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
Vlad goes on a rant...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...imir-guerrero/



Like I said in the main forum, what a sour puss. Nothing, absolutely nothing was promised to him. Nobody but us wanted him, and he thinks he's just going to walk back into the league?
I would not point the finger too quick at Vlad. It seems like AA has some communication issues this year with telling a player one thing and then doing something different.

Look at Lind when he claimed he was not told about coming off the 40 man roster and now with Vlad and saying he was promised things.

Also look at all the backtracking he did this winter about adding payroll and making moves to compete...saying we can go up to 120 mil but then backtracking saying we could "theoretically"

I gotta think AA is starting to feel the pressure of putting a playoff team on the field and some people are starting to get impatience with his grand "Prospects" plans. The koolaid drinkers will say wait for this batch of prospects they will do it.

There comes a time to make the moves to become a winning team and right now I am not saying Vlad would be the difference but it is at least a move to signal to fans we are looking to compete this year with the wide open division and 2 X WC spots. You show your locker room that we are serious about competing this year and you better get your game together or you could be replaced. There is no urgency on this team.

Again this team is destined to play .500 ball and finish 4 or last in the division. What worries me the most is the koolaid they have been feeding people about wait for these great prospects to come up and then we will have a playoff team.

Tell me what position players coming up will be better than the status quo

Gose < Rasmus
Hech < Escobar
Snider/Thames = Davis --- none of these guys are players to build around.
D'Arnaud > JPA - not even sure of that yet as JPA was a hitting maching in the PCL

Where are these great prospects that will lead the way. So we have tons of good pitchers in the minors....we only have 5 rotation spots and do you think any of those will be better than Romero/Morrow in the next 3 years? Alvarez or Drabek? That leaves maybe 2 spots.

So who is coming up in the system to lead the charge to the playoffs...where is our Bryce Harper, Mike Trout???

When GM's constantly feed you news about the minors its because they are deflecting from their piss poor MLB team and want you to drink the koolaid that next year will be better.

Well its next year....how many years has Snider not reached that potential that was hyped for 3 previous years??

You think Pat Gillick stood around and waiting....hell no he make the Alomar deal and jump started the Jays towards to 2 World Series.

Now is the time for AA to makes moves that signals to teams around baseball the Jays are serious players for postseason.

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Old
06-12-2012, 02:23 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
He has set a deadline for a call up today. If he s not called up the contarct is done with. He will not report to the minors again

This organization seems like s **** show. AA is failing miserably imo.
I agree. A very strange move by the Jays. All indications were he would get called up. Even Farrell mentioned it a week or so ago.
Blah Jays.

Its not the end of the world but sounds like the Jays maybe weren't totally truthful to him?

AA and mediocrity continue.

Isn't this Farrel's last year on his contract? how long did he sign?

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Old
06-12-2012, 02:23 PM
  #774
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I think it's pretty evident AA is not planning on competeing this year, looking at things more long term, which I am okay with. He is trying to to build a real winner which takes time, and it sucks but people need to be patient.
I think you're right in terms of building a real sustainable winner. But really, Vlad wasn't going to be a huge producer for us regardless.

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06-12-2012, 02:26 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Vlad's agent, Bean Stringellow, on talk of Vlad retiring: "Nothing further from the truth. He is hitting, running very well." MORE
My guess is that another team said we'd put him on the ML roster right away.

Realistically, there's just no room for him. You don't want EE in LF every day. Maybe for an inter league series, but that's it. EE is a DH, and in a pinch a 1B. Vlad is a DH and DH only. EE > Vlad.

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