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Would you be wary to spend a high first rounder on a Russian?

View Poll Results: Would you draft a Russian kid high in the first round
Nyet, no way I risk another Russian with a high pick 7 11.67%
I have concerns...the kid would have to be really special 19 31.67%
No concerns, if the kid is the BPA...you take him 34 56.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-02-2012, 09:51 PM
  #26
Asher
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If I may give an outsider's opinion I don't think it should be an issue. What ought to be an issue is character/willingness to succeed. From everything I've heard, Yakupov and Galchenyuk have good character traits in spades. I wouldn't hesitate on either of them.

Grigorenko, on the other hand, might be a bit of a question mark, as some have doubted his work ethic. Maybe it's nothing, maybe he had mono or some nagging injuries that wouldn't allow him to give it his all, but nevertheless the question marks are there. And maybe somebody like that would jump ship if he felt a lot of adversity trying to make the NHL. I've already heard a few commentators say he might slip out of the top 5 because of this uncertainty. But even then, it's not really an issue of nationality but rather personality. I think the Oilers will take Yakupov #1. If I were Howson I'd take Galchenyuk #2, although pretty much every mock draft I've seen has CBus taking Murray. Either one would be a good choice IMO.

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06-02-2012, 10:20 PM
  #27
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
...I think the Oilers will take Yakupov #1. If I were Howson I'd take Galchenyuk #2, although pretty much every mock draft I've seen has CBus taking Murray. Either one would be a good choice IMO.
Seems that the CBJ will select from among Galchenyuk, Murray, and Forsberg. All may be worthy of being picked that high, but I'd personally prefer one of the two forwards.

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06-03-2012, 02:08 AM
  #28
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06-03-2012, 02:10 AM
  #29
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I think he was alluding to the "cause" of the shorter life expectancy. I assume he's hinting at another ethic sterotype associated with our Russian friends.

Insulting, really.
Shouldn't be.

Putin has talked about the huge problem of alcoholism in Russia. Anyone who knows anything about Russia knows about it. It's a stark reality. Alcoholism affects different ethnic groups at different rates.

Acknowledging reality should be part of any sound organization's evaluation methodology. Many Russian players aren't affected by it; but some are. If there is evidence that a player (Russian or any other nationality/ethnicity) has a problem with the bottle then it shouldn't be ignored. Why take on a problem when you don't have to?

I am not much of a draft follower. I know little about any of the top prospects so I have no opinion on the Russian players who are considered top prospects in this year's draft.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 06-03-2012 at 03:18 AM.
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06-03-2012, 07:51 AM
  #30
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Just make sure this question is asked during any interview, and I think we're okay.

Is your mother a prostitute?

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06-03-2012, 08:15 AM
  #31
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I'm not wary of spending a high first rounder on a Russian at all. Although I would do a little extra scouting first on anyone from eastern Europe - including them - due to the existence of the KHL.

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06-03-2012, 10:09 AM
  #32
KeithBWhittington
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When you are picking as high as we always seem to be, the "Russian Factor" should get pushed the side a bit.

We need players that can contribute, and the reason these guys are at the top sometimes is that they are projected to contribute, potentially immediately.

It does depend on the kid too, the hype and the situation. But lets not forget that its not just the Russians we can't seem to develop well. Fully expect any pick thats drafted here to want to play as soon as possible, regardless of nationality or regional nationality. At this point, I think the CBJ would do well to stay away from anybody that isn't a slam dunk, as a russian, as soon as he's put on the ice, in the high first round.

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06-03-2012, 12:01 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
When you are picking as high as we always seem to be, the "Russian Factor" should get pushed the side a bit.

We need players that can contribute, and the reason these guys are at the top sometimes is that they are projected to contribute, potentially immediately.

It does depend on the kid too, the hype and the situation. But lets not forget that its not just the Russians we can't seem to develop well. Fully expect any pick thats drafted here to want to play as soon as possible, regardless of nationality or regional nationality. At this point, I think the CBJ would do well to stay away from anybody that isn't a slam dunk, as a russian, as soon as he's put on the ice, in the high first round.
As I've often heard it said, research and development are not limited by the salary cap, and this is where some teams can get a tremendous advantage over others. I don't know where CBJ fit the scheme of things, but to use an example of what I mean I can compare the Oilers R&D from the EIG (the previous owners) to Katz (the current owner). The EIG ran things on a shoestring budget and it really showed, from them not willing to spend money on keeping current players to having no plans on replacing the 2nd oldest arena in the league to an extremely poor record of developing prospects (including having no AHL team for several years.) Katz has changed all that; in fact he's even done little things like fly out the #1 ranked player to meet him at his house just to chat the last few years (Hall and Seguin, RNH, and, today and tomorrow, Yakupov). My point is, it's not always luck, you kinda have to make your own. There are teams that have done well in R&D while spending less, like Buffalo, but once they made their own luck by spending very wisely.

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06-03-2012, 01:56 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
As I've often heard it said, research and development are not limited by the salary cap, and this is where some teams can get a tremendous advantage over others. I don't know where CBJ fit the scheme of things, but to use an example of what I mean I can compare the Oilers R&D from the EIG (the previous owners) to Katz (the current owner). The EIG ran things on a shoestring budget and it really showed, from them not willing to spend money on keeping current players to having no plans on replacing the 2nd oldest arena in the league to an extremely poor record of developing prospects (including having no AHL team for several years.) Katz has changed all that; in fact he's even done little things like fly out the #1 ranked player to meet him at his house just to chat the last few years (Hall and Seguin, RNH, and, today and tomorrow, Yakupov). My point is, it's not always luck, you kinda have to make your own. There are teams that have done well in R&D while spending less, like Buffalo, but once they made their own luck by spending very wisely.
Agreed. The "factor" is magnified when you struggle to develop, period. I can't speak for the money thats factored in, the fans that have invested time and money can see that this organization has had the same core scouts since the beginning, occassionally moving a piece out only to promote one from either below or one thats qualifications are questioned. This streak of "bad luck" thats premeated from the organization is due in large part to a failure to properly and professionally develop these picks.

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06-03-2012, 02:43 PM
  #35
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the whole Russian thing is unfair ... so its a sin to draft a kid who flames out / is not brought along properly / rushed into the league if he is born in Russia ... ( Filatov , Zherdev )

but if he is a good ol Canadian everything is ok ...?

Pascal Leclaire 2001 8th overall
Alexandre Picard 2004 8th overall
Gilbert Brule 2005 6th overall
Derick Brassard 2006 6th overall

its hard to blame an entire first world power country because of this ...

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06-03-2012, 02:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by chunkbox View Post
the whole Russian thing is unfair ... so its a sin to draft a kid who flames out / is not brought along properly / rushed into the league if he is born in Russia ... ( Filatov , Zherdev )

but if he is a good ol Canadian everything is ok ...?

Pascal Leclaire 2001 8th overall
Alexandre Picard 2004 8th overall
Gilbert Brule 2005 6th overall
Derick Brassard 2006 6th overall

its hard to blame an entire first world power country because of this ...
It boils down to options. The KHL is now willing to pay to keep or acquire top tier talent where in the past, the SuperLeague wouldn't.

The "Russian Factor" only excerbates this organizations' failures in development. Its another hurdle vs. being just a hurdle, for the CBJ.

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06-03-2012, 08:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
It boils down to options. The KHL is now willing to pay to keep or acquire top tier talent where in the past, the SuperLeague wouldn't.

The "Russian Factor" only excerbates this organizations' failures in development. Its another hurdle vs. being just a hurdle, for the CBJ.
This.

There aren't going to be other leagues throwing money at guys like Brassard. When drafting a Canadian or American, you can be reasonably sure that they will have to endure being stuck in the AHL or not getting much playing time. With a Russian, there is always that other choice.

With Canadian / US players, it's "our way or the highway."
With Russian players, it's "our way or the KHL."

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06-03-2012, 10:40 PM
  #38
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fine i get that the KHL is an out for Russians . but it still does nothing to say its is ok to just draft Americans or Canadians who fail over and over , because at least they won't leave the continent

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06-04-2012, 06:37 AM
  #39
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fine i get that the KHL is an out for Russians . but it still does nothing to say its is ok to just draft Americans or Canadians who fail over and over , because at least they won't leave the continent
Believe me, nobody is dismissing it.

Grading drafting is difficult because when you pick as high as we do in the first round, we get talented players, the difficult part comes when trying to divide blame for why a prospect fails, was it just a bad apple or was it development that failed? The cure for this is to overhaul Drafting and Development completely, rededicate your organization that if you're going to use the draft as a feeder system, then thats what you're going to do. The CBJ have too many lines in the water right now all in hopes of becoming instantly competitive, they have no strong foundation to build on that though, thats why nothing can be sustained here. It certainly doesn't help when the CBJ farm system hasn't won anything and usually toils at the bottom of their league as well. Exactly why all these plans fail. Howson continues to try to build on foundation-less land to try and appease Priest and the fanbase. We needed a full organizational rebuild 5 years ago, I'm not sure the fanbase stands for it now and certainly not under present leadership.

To mince words, we don't have top notch evaluators, drafting or development, frankly.


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06-04-2012, 06:58 AM
  #40
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right on ... hard to disagree with that statement lol...

i WANT to draft the best player no matter what nationality he is ... the problem with that is i am almost positive that will not happen ...

if GMSH shoots and misses again he is sure to be fired ... he knows this

this will prevent him i feel from taking either Nail or Grigs and possibly Gally ... ( yes even though he was born in the U.S.A. )

which leaves who ...?

Murray or Forsberg ...?

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06-04-2012, 07:07 AM
  #41
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right on ... hard to disagree with that statement lol...

i WANT to draft the best player no matter what nationality he is ... the problem with that is i am almost positive that will not happen ...

if GMSH shoots and misses again he is sure to be fired ... he knows this

this will prevent him i feel from taking either Nail or Grigs and possibly Gally ... ( yes even though he was born in the U.S.A. )

which leaves who ...?

Murray or Forsberg ...?
If Nail is there magically at 2 and Howson passes, he will be barbequed, thoroughly, by everyone in the Hockey World, as he should be.

If this past season wasn't enough to get Howson fired, I doubt this pick will be either, of course, we likely won't have a good grasp on it for at least a year or two afterwards anyway.

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06-04-2012, 07:48 AM
  #42
Double-Shift Lassť
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkbox View Post
right on ... hard to disagree with that statement lol...
If you already agree with it, that is. For example...

Quote:
i WANT to draft the best player no matter what nationality he is ... the problem with that is i am almost positive that will not happen ...
Right.

Quote:
if GMSH shoots and misses again he is sure to be fired ... he knows this

this will prevent him i feel from taking either Nail or Grigs and possibly Gally ... ( yes even though he was born in the U.S.A. )
So your contention is, because Howson can't afford to swing and miss, he will bypass players who are - in some opinions - the best players in the draft and least likely to result in a swing and miss?

That seems logical.

Should I assume it is your plan, should the team draft Yakupov, and he turns out to not really be quite the Pavel Bure clone everyone was sold, that his failure will be continued evidence that Howson can't learn from past mistakes and drafted yet another dispassionate, mercurial, unreliable Russian player?

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06-04-2012, 08:50 AM
  #43
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Not any more than I am wary of any high first round pick that this team makes.

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06-04-2012, 05:52 PM
  #44
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If the question is, would you rather have Yakupov, the answer is yes!

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