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2012 Roster: without Thomas but with his $5 million cap hit

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Old
06-01-2012, 07:53 PM
  #1
Alan Ryan
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2012 Roster: without Thomas but with his $5 million cap hit

Moving on from the Tim Thomas situation to a consideration of the 2012-13 Bruins roster.

We've just learned that the team will not have Tim in goal but will have his $5 million cap hit as an albatross on restructuring the team, unless he is traded (for no assets) to a team desperate to reach the cap floor.

We also learned that Paille and Bourque have been signed. Kelly, Campbell and Pouliot are not signed yet and Corvo isn't coming back. At this point the roster (signed players who were in Boston last season) looks like:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Caron - XXX - Peverly
Paille - XXX - Thornton
XXX

Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - XXX
Ference - McQuaid
XXX

Rask - XXX


Defense: It's likely that Hamilton will be in Boston, perhaps in the top 6 or as the #7. Who will be the other defenseman to complete the rotation?

Goal: It appears that Khudobin will back up Rask in goal.

Forward: Kelly and Campbell are in negotiations to return as the #3 and #4 centers. Who will be the 13th forward?

At this point we are looking at essentially the same team as last season, minus Thomas. Many proposals have been offered to upgrade (Nash, Iginla, Morrow, Parise, Suter, etc.).

With the news that the Bruins will have to absorb the Thomas $5 million cap hit I'm curious how folks see any changes/uprades to the roster? What does your roster look like?

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06-01-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
Moving on from the Tim Thomas situation to a consideration of the 2012-13 Bruins roster.

We've just learned that the team will not have Tim in goal but will have his $5 million cap hit as an albatross on restructuring the team, unless he is traded (for no assets) to a team desperate to reach the cap floor.

We also learned that Paille and Bourque have been signed. Kelly, Campbell and Pouliot are not signed yet and Corvo isn't coming back. At this point the roster (signed players who were in Boston last season) looks like:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Caron - XXX - Peverly
Paille - XXX - Thornton
XXX

Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - XXX
Ference - McQuaid
XXX

Rask - XXX


Defense: It's likely that Hamilton will be in Boston, perhaps in the top 6 or as the #7. Who will be the other defenseman to complete the rotation?

Goal: It appears that Khudobin will back up Rask in goal.

Forward: Kelly and Campbell are in negotiations to return as the #3 and #4 centers. Who will be the 13th forward?

At this point we are looking at essentially the same team as last season, minus Thomas. Many proposals have been offered to upgrade (Nash, Iginla, Morrow, Parise, Suter, etc.).

With the news that the Bruins will have to absorb the Thomas $5 million cap hit I'm curious how folks see any changes/uprades to the roster? What does your roster look like?
That`s Rick Nash not Tyson correct Alan>>>

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06-01-2012, 08:11 PM
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ranold26
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His 5m hit won't be on the Bruins' books.... as he will be dealt.

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06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
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From what I heard on TSN, the Bruins can put Marc Savard on the Long Term Injury list next season, which they didn't do this season. This would allow the Bruins to save $4M in cap space, so I don't think it will be significantly different.

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06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
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I've only skimmed but where has it officially been stated that he will not be returning?

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06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
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Suter and Parise.





Is the sarcasm really needed? We all know they're both going to Detroit.

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06-01-2012, 10:53 PM
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I still cant believe that TT situation will happen.

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06-01-2012, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeybpr25 View Post
I've only skimmed but where has it officially been stated that he will not be returning?
The GM made it pretty clear he is gone. Basically said he is thinking of taking a year off. he is happy with Rask Kouby in goal for the Bruins, and if Time decides to play he could really help some other team

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06-01-2012, 11:40 PM
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I think this kind of situation will be addressed by next CBA, so not worried yet.

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06-01-2012, 11:46 PM
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I heard one report that said the team could suspend him if he decides not to play, so they wouldn't have to pay him. If that were the case, would his money still be on the cap?

It seems really ****** to me that just because a player decides he doesn't want to play that the team is stuck with his cap hit. The team shouldn't suffer the consequences of the player's decision.

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06-01-2012, 11:49 PM
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Lord Ahriman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
I heard one report that said the team could suspend him if he decides not to play, so they wouldn't have to pay him. If that were the case, would his money still be on the cap?

It seems really ****** to me that just because a player decides he doesn't want to play that the team is stuck with his cap hit. The team shouldn't suffer the consequences of the player's decision.
Under the current CBA yes, because 35+ rule, but as I said, I think the new CBA could help.

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06-01-2012, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
I heard one report that said the team could suspend him if he decides not to play, so they wouldn't have to pay him. If that were the case, would his money still be on the cap?

It seems really ****** to me that just because a player decides he doesn't want to play that the team is stuck with his cap hit. The team shouldn't suffer the consequences of the player's decision.
Not the case because it's a 35+ contract.

It sucks, but that's the risk you run when signing guys to these kinds of deals.

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06-02-2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
The GM made it pretty clear he is gone. Basically said he is thinking of taking a year off. he is happy with Rask Kouby in goal for the Bruins, and if Time decides to play he could really help some other team
Might Peter Chiarelli toll his contract, however? In addition, if there is an amnesty in the next CBA, Thomas becomes the obvious candidate.

As for this, plus the the fact that Chris Pronger, who is on one has a career-threatening concussion, I wonder if teams will start holding 35+ contracts to 2 years max. (If it's 1 year, it is just a standard contract.)

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06-02-2012, 12:56 AM
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Alan Ryan
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
His 5m hit won't be on the Bruins' books.... as he will be dealt.
Hope you are right Ranold. Any ideas which teams would be interested?

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06-02-2012, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeybpr25 View Post
I've only skimmed but where has it officially been stated that he will not be returning?
any major sports network or the Bruins website

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06-02-2012, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
I heard one report that said the team could suspend him if he decides not to play, so they wouldn't have to pay him. If that were the case, would his money still be on the cap?

It seems really ****** to me that just because a player decides he doesn't want to play that the team is stuck with his cap hit. The team shouldn't suffer the consequences of the player's decision.
But a team that signs a guy for 12 years doesn't need to worry even if the player is in his mid 40's when his contract is suppose to end but retires years before that.

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06-02-2012, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
Moving on from the Tim Thomas situation to a consideration of the 2012-13 Bruins roster.

We've just learned that the team will not have Tim in goal but will have his $5 million cap hit as an albatross on restructuring the team, unless he is traded (for no assets) to a team desperate to reach the cap floor.

We also learned that Paille and Bourque have been signed. Kelly, Campbell and Pouliot are not signed yet and Corvo isn't coming back. At this point the roster (signed players who were in Boston last season) looks like:

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Caron - XXX - Peverly
Paille - XXX - Thornton
XXX

Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - XXX
Ference - McQuaid
XXX

Rask - XXX


Defense: It's likely that Hamilton will be in Boston, perhaps in the top 6 or as the #7. Who will be the other defenseman to complete the rotation?

Goal: It appears that Khudobin will back up Rask in goal.

Forward: Kelly and Campbell are in negotiations to return as the #3 and #4 centers. Who will be the 13th forward?

At this point we are looking at essentially the same team as last season, minus Thomas. Many proposals have been offered to upgrade (Nash, Iginla, Morrow, Parise, Suter, etc.).

With the news that the Bruins will have to absorb the Thomas $5 million cap hit I'm curious how folks see any changes/uprades to the roster? What does your roster look like?
I'm worried about that lineup Alan.

-They're taking a big risk relying on Horton to be healthy all year and performing at 100% after his second concussion. When/if he comes out of the lineup, they have a hard time finding chemistry and it pulls Peverley (who IMO is the offensive catalyst for the 3rd line) off of the 3rd line making them a de facto checking line that doesn't actually play against the other team's first OR second line.

-I don't like Seguin with Bergeron. I grew to see the wisdom in it this because of the mentoring, leadership and positive impact Bergy was clearly having on Seguin, but strategically I want and expect Bergeron to go against the other team's top lines- and that's not what I want Seguin doing. Even if Seguin continues to improve defensively (and he's made great strides already), he's still not going to be the defensive equal of a guy who literally has an NHL job because of his ability to shot block and defend. What that means to me, is that we'll be taking our most dangerous offensive player off the ice frequently for Dzone draws in key situations and that limiting his ice time and juggling the lines. I think this was an issue against Washington.

-I wouldn't sign Chris Kelly. I like him as a player and I love his leadership/character, but if Patrice Bergeron is always going to play against Ovechkin/Kesler/Stamkos and David Krejci is always going to play against Backstrom/Sedin/Lecavalier then why do we need a 3rd line center who's best attribute is his defense? So we can out-defend the Dominic Moore's and Jay Beagle's of the world? Now, if the Bruins were to deal Krejci and move Seguin to center then I WOULD want Kelly because I'd now have a role for him to play. Bergeron could continue to go against the other team's best, Kelly against their 2nd best, leaving Seguin to exploit the other guy's 3rd line. But with the TT situation where it is, I don't see them moving Krejci.

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06-02-2012, 02:20 AM
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Here's what I'd like to see...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Brad Marchand ($2.500m) / Tyler Seguin ($3.550m) / Top6 RW'er ($0.000m)
Milan Lucic ($4.083m) / David Krejci ($5.250m) / Nathan Horton ($4.000m)
Jordan Caron ($1.100m) / Patrice Bergeron ($5.000m) / Rich Peverley ($3.250m)
Daniel Paille ($1.300m) / Gregory Campbell ($1.500m) / Shawn Thornton ($1.100m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Zdeno Chara ($6.917m) / Johnny Boychuk ($3.367m)
Dennis Seidenberg ($3.250m) / Dougie Hamilton ($1.494m)
Andrew Ference ($2.250m) / Adam McQuaid ($1.567m)
Mike Mottau ($0.800m)
GOALTENDERS
Tuukka Rask ($3.000m)
Anton Khudobin ($0.875m)
Tim Thomas ($5.000m)

BUYOUTS
Patrick Eaves ($0.258m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,910,834; BONUSES: $3,062,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $10,451,666


You can move those top three lines around anyway you like. Call Bergeron line 1 (he'll probably get the most ice time anyway), or swap Horton and the new Top6 RW depending on who it is, but that's how I'd like to see them draw it up.

That new Top6'er doesn't have to be Nash or Iginla either... I'd love to see them go high-end there, but even if that guy was just a good player I think that team would be SO hard to play against, with line after line coming at you. Like the '09 team but with a better, more mobile defense.

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06-02-2012, 02:25 AM
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Alan Ryan
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Thanks Bill. There have been a number of ideas percolating on how to improve the team in different threads on Nash, Parise, top 9 secondary scoring, etc.

Things have now moved somewhat with the news that Thomas won't be here and Paille/Borque have been signed. Given that two more roster spots have been clarified my purpose in starting this thread is to forward the discussion on how folks would like it to end up.

I hear your concerns about Seguin, Kelly and Horton. How should the Bruins move with the assumption that Horton might not be able to contribute at a high level? Would you like to see Seguin center the third line and let Kelly walk? Do you think they can get stuff done while (possibly) having to absorb the Thomas $5 million cap hit? Or will the news about the increase in the cap and using Savard's LTIE be enough to add the type of players you want to see in the line-up? Are you satisfied with the defense?

Not trying to single you out Bill, these questions are for everyone.

EDIT: I just saw your newer post with the line-up! Thanks.


Last edited by Alan Ryan: 06-02-2012 at 04:28 AM.
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06-02-2012, 03:43 AM
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Lord Ahriman
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
His 5m hit won't be on the Bruins' books.... as he will be dealt.
I was expecting a 1st + good prospect, now, a 5th and we can call a good deal.

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06-02-2012, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Here's what I'd like to see...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Brad Marchand ($2.500m) / Tyler Seguin ($3.550m) / Top6 RW'er ($0.000m)
Milan Lucic ($4.083m) / David Krejci ($5.250m) / Nathan Horton ($4.000m)
Jordan Caron ($1.100m) / Patrice Bergeron ($5.000m) / Rich Peverley ($3.250m)
Daniel Paille ($1.300m) / Gregory Campbell ($1.500m) / Shawn Thornton ($1.100m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Zdeno Chara ($6.917m) / Johnny Boychuk ($3.367m)
Dennis Seidenberg ($3.250m) / Dougie Hamilton ($1.494m)
Andrew Ference ($2.250m) / Adam McQuaid ($1.567m)
Mike Mottau ($0.800m)
GOALTENDERS
Tuukka Rask ($3.000m)
Anton Khudobin ($0.875m)
Tim Thomas ($5.000m)

BUYOUTS
Patrick Eaves ($0.258m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,910,834; BONUSES: $3,062,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $10,451,666


You can move those top three lines around anyway you like. Call Bergeron line 1 (he'll probably get the most ice time anyway), or swap Horton and the new Top6 RW depending on who it is, but that's how I'd like to see them draw it up.

That new Top6'er doesn't have to be Nash or Iginla either... I'd love to see them go high-end there, but even if that guy was just a good player I think that team would be SO hard to play against, with line after line coming at you. Like the '09 team but with a better, more mobile defense.
I don't have a great grasp on where he'd be financially, but I'd rather see Zanon back than Mottau. I'd also love to see Kelly back, but not at the expense of a top 6 winger, so all in all that lineup looks solid to me. Plus, it gives Providence a lot of talent to work with, adding the likes of Spooner, Knight, Bourque, Cross, and Krug.

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06-02-2012, 04:25 AM
  #22
Alan Ryan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Here's what I'd like to see...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Brad Marchand ($2.500m) / Tyler Seguin ($3.550m) / Top6 RW'er ($0.000m)
Milan Lucic ($4.083m) / David Krejci ($5.250m) / Nathan Horton ($4.000m)
Jordan Caron ($1.100m) / Patrice Bergeron ($5.000m) / Rich Peverley ($3.250m)
Daniel Paille ($1.300m) / Gregory Campbell ($1.500m) / Shawn Thornton ($1.100m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
Zdeno Chara ($6.917m) / Johnny Boychuk ($3.367m)
Dennis Seidenberg ($3.250m) / Dougie Hamilton ($1.494m)
Andrew Ference ($2.250m) / Adam McQuaid ($1.567m)
Mike Mottau ($0.800m)
GOALTENDERS
Tuukka Rask ($3.000m)
Anton Khudobin ($0.875m)
Tim Thomas ($5.000m)

BUYOUTS
Patrick Eaves ($0.258m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,910,834; BONUSES: $3,062,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $10,451,666


You can move those top three lines around anyway you like. Call Bergeron line 1 (he'll probably get the most ice time anyway), or swap Horton and the new Top6 RW depending on who it is, but that's how I'd like to see them draw it up.

That new Top6'er doesn't have to be Nash or Iginla either... I'd love to see them go high-end there, but even if that guy was just a good player I think that team would be SO hard to play against, with line after line coming at you. Like the '09 team but with a better, more mobile defense.


Looks good Bill, without a lot of change to existing personnel. Up forward basically you have added a very good RW in exchange for Kelly, while trusting that Seguin can grow into the center role quickly. And it appears very doable with the new cap and potential for moving the Thomas cap hit.

I feel that Seguin should end up at center also. I'm not sure he is ready at this point but Bergeron and Krejci bring the veteran presence to cover for him as he grows.

I'm hoping they sign Pouliot and guessing he will play before Caron. Perhaps his high end skills will help him breakout this year. A Campbell signing would be OK as well.

Lucic - Krejci - Horton
Marchand - Seguin - Top 6 RW
Pouliot - Bergeron - Peverly
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
Caron

On defense I'm more concerned about putting Hamilton in the top 4 than putting Seguin at center. I'm more comfortable if they bring a skilled veteran for the top 4 and start Hamilton at the #7. If he plays well enough to displace one of the top 6 they can adjust. In your scenario there might be enough cap space to add that solid defenseman. Perhaps someone like Jason Garrison.

Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - Top 4 Defenseman
Ference - McQuaid
Hamilton

I think Rask and Khudobin will be fine as the goaltenders.

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06-02-2012, 04:29 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Lord Ahriman View Post
I was expecting a 1st + good prospect, now, a 5th and we can call a good deal.

It isn't likely to be a great trade outcome. Disappointing.

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06-02-2012, 05:00 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
Perhaps someone like Jason Garrison.

Chara - Boychuk
Seidenberg - Garrison
Ference - McQuaid
Hamilton
Id love for them to get Garrison. That defense is legit.

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06-02-2012, 05:44 AM
  #25
08SeaBass08
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I, too, would rather see Zanon over Mottau and Pouliot re-signed. Love Chris Kelly, but a top-6 wing seems far more important. So if Chia has legitimate chances there, I'd let Kelly walk. Also, I have to think Hamilton rides with Z. I think he'll be more of a factor than 7th D-man.

What I'm thinking, however, is that now the Thomas contract could be part of a much bigger deal for an elite forward. Chia had previously stated he didn't think they'd make a big splash, but that was before yesterday. I think the Thomas contract could actually be a benefit in a deal for Nash - maybe it's Krejci, Hamilton, Caron, "Thomas."

That adds $$ to Columbus's floor, without having to actually pay Thomas. As a team in an obvious rebuild, Columbus actually cuts salary, and adds three young cap-friendly, NHL-ready players, including a potential superstar in Hamilton, and a heck of a player in Krejci. If Thomas decides to play mid-season, then they sell a few more tickets and win a few more games.

The Bruins get their presumptive goal scorer, lose Thomas's cap hit, have cash to re-sign Kelly and others and still have the Savvy LTIR to use at a more beneficial time.

I'm not wishing for this, merely speculating.

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