HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Crosby question???

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-27-2004, 02:17 AM
  #26
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Too funny! "I could look up the exact material that supports my case, but I'm not going to bother cause I cleary didn't just make up the facts!" Good one Messenger! I really would welcome you to "look up" the points that prove your ridiculous claim that Gretzky's personal services contract somehow has anything to do with him not being drafted, as you claimed. Go ahead and prove you didn't make up that claim. Good luck with it, because no material to defend sucn an uneducated comment exists, even though you just claimed it did.

Messenger just keeps getting funnier. He does so much spin doctoring he should work in the White House.

Now he's pretending he never said the personal services contract was somehow the 'cunning' move that was made to keep Wayne Gretzky out of the Entry Draft! LOL! At least I think that's what he's saying. It must be cause he maintains his post is accurate even though it clearly says that.

To clairify where your post and the actual facts deverge, I will clairify for you...

Look at your last paragrpah where you call it a "cunning" move to sign Gretzky to a personal services contract and all the blather about WHA contracts being voided. Even if Gretz were on a standard WHA contract, he still could have (and would have) been protected by Edmonton and still would have (and could have) joined the NHL despite never being drafted by the league. So I don't see why this move was "cunning" nor why it has ANYTHING to do with how Gretz got to the NHL.

So, in short, you've just proved MY POINT that the personal services contract had zero to do with Gretzky avoiding the draft and wasn't a clever "short cut" to the league for Gretzky.

So the point you are arguing... is mine.

Very clever Messenger. Get proven wrong then adopt the opposite of what you said as your new argument.

Give your head a shake.


Last edited by FerrisRox: 12-27-2004 at 02:28 AM.
FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 02:26 AM
  #27
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I am not even going to bother ...I could look up the exact material that supports my case, because I clearly did not just make up the facts .. but I have neither the time nor patience to deal with your constant BS on this board... I will just put you on my ignore list and then will no longer have to refer to your nonsense or read this crap that you spout out ...
Put me on the ignore list?

If I were you I would do the same. If I were you, I wouldn't want to read my half-truths and fabrications constantntly being exposed as such either. Plus it must be exhausting spinning your stories and backpedalling all the time.

I gotta say, I'm glad to be on you're ignore, no more of your personal attacks and ridiculous troll comments. That should save lots of bandwith.

To all others on the board, let's get back to talking hockey.

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 03:20 AM
  #28
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
Too funny! "I could look up the exact material that supports my case, but I'm not going to bother cause I cleary didn't just make up the facts!" Good one Messenger! I really would welcome you to "look up" the points that prove your ridiculous claim that Gretzky's personal services contract somehow has anything to do with him not being drafted, as you claimed.

Go ahead and prove you didn't make up that claim. Good luck with it, because no material to defend sucn an uneducated comment exists, even though you just claimed it did..
OKAY FERRIS .. Here is your proof .. !!!!!

I don't really expect much from you, and you never seem to disappoint me, by your lack of knowledge on any subject. How you do not understand plain English is beyond me.

When the CBA stated all kids needed to be drafted, before entering the NHL .. This exact point is critical to the Crosby Case now..

It was his contract that allowed this to happen ... The NHL allowed teams to protect 2 players but not undrafted ones .. all the other undrafted youngsters that played in the WHA ...Rob Ramage, Rick Vaive, Craig Hartsburg, Mike Gartner, Michel Goulet etc went back into the draft and were selected by NHL teams..

The best example was Mark Messier Born Jan 18, 1961 went back in the draft, and was selected in the round 3 #48 overall .. Wayne Gretzky Born Jan 26, 1961 (8 days later) than Messier

..DID NOT GO BACK IN BECAUSE OF THE PERSONAL SERVICES CONTRACT .. He was tied to the Owner and therefore no other team could own his rights..

WHAT PART DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND NOW GENIUS.

This is so simple and I spelled it out in plain English, I researched it not just made things up like you do..

Here Read it for yourself Mr. Spin Doctor ... Now you look like such a fool

***** http://www.oilersheritage.com/histor...n_gretzky.html *******

From the offical Oilers Heritage page ...

If you still have a problem with it .. take it up with the Edmonton Oilers and their Site .. and stop bothering Leaf Fans with your nonsense and constant gibberish ..

Anything else I can correct you on,or will you be slithering back under your rock again now ????..


Last edited by Mess: 12-27-2004 at 04:30 AM.
Mess is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 02:46 PM
  #29
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
OKAY FERRIS .. Here is your proof .. !!!!!

I don't really expect much from you, and you never seem to disappoint me, by your lack of knowledge on any subject. How you do not understand plain English is beyond me.

When the CBA stated all kids needed to be drafted, before entering the NHL .. This exact point is critical to the Crosby Case now..

It was his contract that allowed this to happen ... The NHL allowed teams to protect 2 players but not undrafted ones .. all the other undrafted youngsters that played in the WHA ...Rob Ramage, Rick Vaive, Craig Hartsburg, Mike Gartner, Michel Goulet etc went back into the draft and were selected by NHL teams..

The best example was Mark Messier Born Jan 18, 1961 went back in the draft, and was selected in the round 3 #48 overall .. Wayne Gretzky Born Jan 26, 1961 (8 days later) than Messier

..DID NOT GO BACK IN BECAUSE OF THE PERSONAL SERVICES CONTRACT .. He was tied to the Owner and therefore no other team could own his rights..

WHAT PART DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND NOW GENIUS.

This is so simple and I spelled it out in plain English, I researched it not just made things up like you do..

Here Read it for yourself Mr. Spin Doctor ... Now you look like such a fool

***** http://www.oilersheritage.com/histor...n_gretzky.html *******

From the offical Oilers Heritage page ...

If you still have a problem with it .. take it up with the Edmonton Oilers and their Site .. and stop bothering Leaf Fans with your nonsense and constant gibberish ..

Anything else I can correct you on,or will you be slithering back under your rock again now ????..
Sigh.

So much for being ignored.

Messenger, let me open the school again to give you yet another lesson.

Unfortunately, with you, that always means pointing out the obvious. Your examples of Vaive, Gartner, Ramage etc, illustrate how out to lunch you are on this subject. You state that they went "back into" the draft.

There are myriad of problems wtih this statement. First and formost is the simple fact that in order to go "back into" the NHL draft they would of course have to already have been in the NHL draft. None of the players were previously draft eligible so it's clear you do not know what you are talking about here.

YOU REPEATEDLY STATE THAT PLAYERS WERE NEVER NHL DRAFT ELIGIBLE "WENT BACK INTO THE DRAFT." Plain and simple, this is obvioulsy nonsensical.

Additionally, i think you are weakly trying to suggest because these players were drafted by exisiting NHL clubs (except for Goulet, who happend to be drafted in the NHL by a former WHA club - though not the one he played for in the WHA) that somehow that means Gretzky dodged the draft while they didn't.

If that is indeed your "point" (I used quotes because calling your fabrications and half-truths a point is a bit of stretch) once again you are just exposing your ignorance. There is one glaringly obvious difference beteween Gretzky and all of the aforementioned players. Glaringly obvious yet seemingly over your head. Gretzky was WHA property OF ONE OF THE CLUBS JOINING THE NHL. The OTHER WERE WHA PROPERTY OF TEAMS THAT WOULD CEASE TO EXIST ONCE THE NHL MERGER HAPPENED.

Obviousy Rob Ramage et al would then be drafted by NHL clubs. They had no other option as the contracts they signed were with clubs that no longer existed. Wayne Gretzky's contract with was with the Edmonton Oilers. All the Oilers had to do to retain his rights (or the rights of any player they wanted was to simply "protect" him from the dispersal draft.) The Jets, for example, opted to protecct Morris Lukowich, who's rights belonged to Pittsburgh. He was not signed to a "personal services" contract, he was simply protected by the Jets. He went on to score 30 or more goals 4 times for the Jets in the NHL.

As for your Messier example, which you cite as being "the best" example, again I have to ask, example of what? First of all, as you probably know, the Cincinnati Stingers never joined the NHL. So it should come as know surprise that Messier would be draft eligible in 1979. He was 18 - all 18 year olds who weren't already NHL property (like Gretzky for example) were draft eligible. It's sad I have to point this out to you. By the way, with one goal in his 52 games WHA career, even if Messier had been property of Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton or Harftord they wouldn't have protected him from dispersal anyway.

Let me ask you a question, do you really think, if the Oilers didn't protect Gretzky in the dispersal draft of 1979 that no other team would have drafted him because of the personal services contract? Are you really suggeting that?

The reason he didn't get drafted is obvious, he was NHL property of the Oilers. Just like Lukowich was NHL property of the Jets despite not being drafted by them.


Now don't go back on your word - put be on ignore - cause frankly I'm getting bored of correcting your posts. I've read tons of your posts there. You love to weigh in authortatively on all sorts of topics as if you know the answers. You clearly do not. Stop embarassing yourself.


Last edited by FerrisRox: 12-27-2004 at 03:14 PM.
FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 05:07 PM
  #30
It Kills Me
Registered User
 
It Kills Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
Sigh.

So much for being ignored.

Messenger, let me open the school again to give you yet another lesson.

Unfortunately, with you, that always means pointing out the obvious. Your examples of Vaive, Gartner, Ramage etc, illustrate how out to lunch you are on this subject. You state that they went "back into" the draft.

There are myriad of problems wtih this statement. First and formost is the simple fact that in order to go "back into" the NHL draft they would of course have to already have been in the NHL draft. None of the players were previously draft eligible so it's clear you do not know what you are talking about here.

YOU REPEATEDLY STATE THAT PLAYERS WERE NEVER NHL DRAFT ELIGIBLE "WENT BACK INTO THE DRAFT." Plain and simple, this is obvioulsy nonsensical.

Additionally, i think you are weakly trying to suggest because these players were drafted by exisiting NHL clubs (except for Goulet, who happend to be drafted in the NHL by a former WHA club - though not the one he played for in the WHA) that somehow that means Gretzky dodged the draft while they didn't.

If that is indeed your "point" (I used quotes because calling your fabrications and half-truths a point is a bit of stretch) once again you are just exposing your ignorance. There is one glaringly obvious difference beteween Gretzky and all of the aforementioned players. Glaringly obvious yet seemingly over your head. Gretzky was WHA property OF ONE OF THE CLUBS JOINING THE NHL. The OTHER WERE WHA PROPERTY OF TEAMS THAT WOULD CEASE TO EXIST ONCE THE NHL MERGER HAPPENED.

Obviousy Rob Ramage et al would then be drafted by NHL clubs. They had no other option as the contracts they signed were with clubs that no longer existed. Wayne Gretzky's contract with was with the Edmonton Oilers. All the Oilers had to do to retain his rights (or the rights of any player they wanted was to simply "protect" him from the dispersal draft.) The Jets, for example, opted to protecct Morris Lukowich, who's rights belonged to Pittsburgh. He was not signed to a "personal services" contract, he was simply protected by the Jets. He went on to score 30 or more goals 4 times for the Jets in the NHL.

As for your Messier example, which you cite as being "the best" example, again I have to ask, example of what? First of all, as you probably know, the Cincinnati Stingers never joined the NHL. So it should come as know surprise that Messier would be draft eligible in 1979. He was 18 - all 18 year olds who weren't already NHL property (like Gretzky for example) were draft eligible. It's sad I have to point this out to you. By the way, with one goal in his 52 games WHA career, even if Messier had been property of Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton or Harftord they wouldn't have protected him from dispersal anyway.

Let me ask you a question, do you really think, if the Oilers didn't protect Gretzky in the dispersal draft of 1979 that no other team would have drafted him because of the personal services contract? Are you really suggeting that?

The reason he didn't get drafted is obvious, he was NHL property of the Oilers. Just like Lukowich was NHL property of the Jets despite not being drafted by them.


Now don't go back on your word - put be on ignore - cause frankly I'm getting bored of correcting your posts. I've read tons of your posts there. You love to weigh in authortatively on all sorts of topics as if you know the answers. You clearly do not. Stop embarassing yourself.


You should have made it colourful, then we probably given you some respect. I mean look at Messengers rainbow posts.

It Kills Me is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 05:40 PM
  #31
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
You should have made it colourful, then we probably given you some respect. I mean look at Messengers rainbow posts.
Hey Skittles

Maybe you can teach Ferrist something I must be using too big words for him ..

You take a crack at it ..

Perhaps post that BIG Bird image again and work from there ..

but go slow you may lose him quickly..


Last edited by Mess: 12-29-2004 at 02:30 PM.
Mess is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 05:56 PM
  #32
It Kills Me
Registered User
 
It Kills Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Hey Skittles

Maybe you can teach that troll something I must be using too big words for him ..

You take a crack at it ..

Perhaps post that BIG Bird image again and work from there ..

but go slow he isn't very sharp and you will lose him quickly..
Oooo, it's big bird... I thought that guy was called mocking bird.


I don't understand anything about Wayne and a personal service contract, so I'll just embrass myself.

It Kills Me is offline  
Old
12-27-2004, 11:21 PM
  #33
TrueBlue
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton, home of Pa
Posts: 1,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Good Question .. but not possible ..


I think you are thinking of the Opt In rule :

When a young player is 17 going on 18 he has to OPT IN to the draft or he will not be able to be selected however once he has turned 18 he is automatically in the draft .. The current CBA states that all players between ages 18 and 19 are eligble for the draft and only if they go UNSELECTED in 2 consecutive drafts do they become UFA at age 20 ....

So you can't avoid being drafted but .....

A slight twist on your idea is that a player must be signed within 2 years of being drafted or he either

A) re-enters the draft again, available to all teams to draft him
or
b) If he turns 20 years old before Sept 15th of that callender year then he becomes a UFA ..

So depending on the players birthdate .. He could actually get drafted in this upcoming draft (whenever that may be, refuse to sign with the team that drafted him and stay in Junior for the next 2 seasons) and then he would fall into on of the above categories,

As in Crosby case (birthdate Aug 7, 1987) .. he would turn 20 on August 7, 2007 and become an UFA as he would be too old to re-enter the 2007 draft so as of June 1st 2007..he would be eligible to sign with anyone ..

Thanx for the clarification.
It answers some of the things that I've wondered about Lindros actually.

I mean if he absolutely did not want to play for Quebec, I started wondering what his other option was which is to not enter the draft.
By him choosing not to enter the draft, he would be missing out on millions for 2 or 3 years until he turned 20, so there's that catch.

So in Crosby's situation, lets say he wanted to go to a team of his choice, he couldn't be a UFA until he turned 20?

For Lindros to not report to Quebec, the process he kicked off costed a lot of money for everybody. The arbritration or something; the flyers top picks; wad of cash; lawyers; the list goes on.
All this so that Lindros can start getting paid early on his terms.
But in hindsight, as you're accustomed to doing, looks like Quebec/Colorodo are the ones who really got paid.

TrueBlue is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 10:39 AM
  #34
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
You should have made it colourful, then we probably given you some respect. I mean look at Messengers rainbow posts.


When there is no substance at all to the posts, at least he dazzles with a little flash.

Funny who he ignored the questions I asked in the post and didn't seem to address his strange comments about players going "back into the draft" that they were never in in the first place.

But I guess if I were being exposed as a total fraud I would be reluctant to respond too!


Last edited by FerrisRox: 12-28-2004 at 10:44 AM.
FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 11:45 AM
  #35
The King of Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
In fact Crosby to Toronto might be the best thing for the game as it will get a lot of anti-Leaf bias and hatred removed if everyone is tuning in to see Crosby in blue and white ..
I fail to see how making the Leafs popular in markets where they aren't already is "the best thing for the game". That's a pretty ludicrous statement to make, especially if it's at the expense of other teams which could use a marquee player much more than the Leafs to put fans in the seats.

The King of Town is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 12:11 PM
  #36
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox


When there is no substance at all to the posts, at least he dazzles with a little flash.

Funny who he ignored the questions I asked in the post and didn't seem to address his strange comments about players going "back into the draft" that they were never in in the first place.

But I guess if I were being exposed as a total fraud I would be reluctant to respond too!
Okay Genius

Back into the Draft is a figure of speech... (Hanging on every word I type so you don't look like an idiot from your previous outburst and display is pretty pathetic I must say)

Okay just for you .. but I am sure others might enjoy the knowledge as well

The WHA was considered a Professional League ... and that included the players even the young ones that were too young to play in the NHL at that time because they were not yet of Draft Eligible Age.

So when I said back in I meant INTO an amateur draft as opposed to INTO a dispersal draft (which all the folding WHA teams players went into, that remained unclaimed by NHL teams that owned their rights). The young kids even challenged the Ruling claiming they should be UFA (Unrestricted Free Agents). They were no longer Amateurs but Professionals as a result of playing in the WHA the previous year.. Thus the reference to BACK INTO an amateur draft when they believed they were now Professionals. GET IT ???

The NHL in order to accommodate this rare situation had to change and rename and alter the rules of its previous 1978 AMATEUR draft (& prior) to the 1979 ENTRY draft.. To signify as they said "The ENTRY INTO THE NHL" ... avoiding the term amateur so that the kids would be forced INTO that Draft and be selected by the NHL teams in a normal fashion, in reverse order to prior year points standing with the 4 WHA teams picking last in each round.

The league said all the UNDRAFTED players of draft eligible age had to go into the entry draft (That rule is still in existance to this day in the NHL entry draft rules)... The only EXCEPTION was GRETZKY because of his personal services contract to Peter Pocklington, that was legal and binding and prevented the NHL from forcing Gretzky into the entry draft, or allowing any other team to own his rights., and was signed prior to the NHL rules changes to close that loophole in the future ..

So We Will Not See A Similar CROSBY SIGNING CONTRACT ATTEMPT to circumvent the entry draft rules in the future.

Its explained clearly right here ...but you are too ignorant to understand it ..

http://www.oilersheritage.com/histor...n_gretzky.html

If it was so simple to get the good young kids into the NHL through the merger then the 4 WHA teams that entered the NHL could also have made trades for the good young talents of the WHA like Ramage and Harstburg and Gartner and Vaive instead of entering the league with old players as its protected ones .. They would have made trades or even bought the rights from Birmingham and Cincinnati who were folding to obtain these young kids and protect them.

BUT PART OF THE MERGER AGREEMENT was that this was not possible .. Even if any of these young kids had been on one of the Merging teams they were not able to be protected as the article says the WHAPA contracts were torn up and the players needed to be signed to NHLPA ones .. However clearly the personal services contract took precedence over any other contract including player contracts ..

and your silly question ......" Let me ask you a question, do you really think, if the Oilers didn't protect Gretzky in the dispersal draft of 1979 that no other team would have drafted him because of the personal services contract? Are you really suggesting that?" .....

That is the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted

Gretzky had a legal binding contract with the Oilers owner (Why you can't grasp that is beyond me) ..No other team would draft him even if he did enter the entry draft, because his rights belonged to Edmonton's owner. and the drafting team could not force Gretzky to play for them, or trade him once drafted to another team for the same reason, because Pocklington would prevent that, by his contract which again took precedence over any player contract.

Further to your silly question Gretzky if left unprotected would not have been part of the dispersal draft in the first place, because of his age. Just like Ramage and Vaive, Messier and others also were not part of it because of theirs, but the ENTRY draft instead to determine who would eventually own their new rights. REGARDLESS of which draft Gretzky entered the NHL through in your STUPID question above, he could play for no other team but the Oilers, because of his personal services contract.

To further show you the strength,, I have provided the attached link below to show you how valid that contract was that it needed to be legally nullified officially first, even through the courts before Pocklington himself could trade the great one, because it permanently bound the player to the owner. The Personal Services contract was signed while the WHA still existed and even the Merger and folding of the WHA did not break that contract, and required the Oilers owner to do that, and he would not have done that if another team had drafted Gretzky ..

Here is that link :

http://www.oilersheritage.com/legacy...cklington.html

"On August 10, 1988, the Edmonton Sun’s front-page headline read "99 TEARS!" The Sun devoted over 20 pages to Pocklington’s decision to sell/trade Gretzky to Los Angeles Kings owner Bruce McNall for $15 million USD ($18 million CDN). The newspaper’s front page featured a teary-eyed picture of Gretzky at the press conference where the deal was announced.

The 21-year contract Gretzky signed on his 18th birthday in 1979 was wiped out. Less than a month before that historic day in 1988."

I hope this finally puts and end to your posts .. Or are you going to suggest I work for the Oilers organization and designed all those official web sites and pages, in some elaborate hoax to prove you have no idea what you are talking about, like usual ??


Last edited by Mess: 12-28-2004 at 04:13 PM.
Mess is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 02:22 PM
  #37
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
" Let me ask you a question, do you really think, if the Oilers didn't protect Gretzky in the dispersal draft of 1979 that no other team would have drafted him because of the personal services contract? Are you really suggesting that?" .....

That is the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted, and you have posted a lot of nonsense ....

Gretzky had a legal binding contract with the Oilers owner (Why you can't grasp that is beyond me) ..No other team would draft him even if he did enter the entry draft, because his rights belonged to Edmonton's owner. and the drafting team could not force Gretzky to play for them, or trade him once drafted to another team for the same reason, because Pocklington would prevent that, by his contract which again took precedence over any player contract.

Further to your silly question Gretzky if left unprotected would not have been part of the dispersal draft in the first place, because of his age. Just like Ramage and Vaive, Messier and others also were not part of it because of theirs, but the ENTRY draft instead to determine who would eventually own their new rights. REGARDLESS of which draft Gretzky entered the NHL through in your STUPID question above, he could play for no other team but the Oilers, because of his personal services contract.
This is hilarious. So you really think no other team would have drafted Wayne Gretzky because he signed a personal services contract with Peter Pocklington?!?!?!?

In the sea of moronic claims you made here this is the funniest of them all!! All of the teams would have merely passed on Wayne Gretzky in the draft because of a personal services contract!! I literally have tears in my eyes! When I set the trap of that question, I didn't think you would actually answer it! Oh my! Shame on me for over-estimating you!

Lets see if you are dumb enough to walking into another... Answer this one... if Gretzky was "bound" to Pocklington by this contract as you allege, why did the Oilers bother to protect him when they joined the NHL? Why did the Oilers protect him in every single Waiver Draft? You seem to think this magical contract would mean the Oilers wouldn't waste a protection pick on him.

Messenger, your stubborness matches your dimwittedness. That combo makest this hilarious!!

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 02:39 PM
  #38
think-blue-
Registered User
 
think-blue-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,159
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to think-blue-
Both of you knock it off with the personal attacks.

think-blue- is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 02:40 PM
  #39
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.blue
Both of you knock it off with the personal attacks.
My apologies, Think.Blue

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 04:21 PM
  #40
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 5,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
My apologies, Think.Blue
You two are starting to sound like me and sluggo going at it!

IWD is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 04:44 PM
  #41
leaflover
New hope
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,954
vCash: 1513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icewind Dale
You two are starting to sound like me and sluggo going at it!
I expect to see them on Judge Judy.But its only a half hour show.

leaflover is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 07:24 PM
  #42
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
This is hilarious. So you really think no other team would have drafted Wayne Gretzky because he signed a personal services contract with Peter Pocklington?!?!?!?

In the sea of moronic claims you made here this is the funniest of them all!! All of the teams would have merely passed on Wayne Gretzky in the draft because of a personal services contract!! I literally have tears in my eyes! When I set the trap of that question, I didn't think you would actually answer it! Oh my! Shame on me for over-estimating you!

Lets see if you are dumb enough to walking into another... Answer this one... if Gretzky was "bound" to Pocklington by this contract as you allege, why did the Oilers bother to protect him when they joined the NHL? Why did the Oilers protect him in every single Waiver Draft? You seem to think this magical contract would mean the Oilers wouldn't waste a protection pick on him.

Messenger, your stubborness matches your dimwittedness. That combo makest this hilarious!!
So let me get this straight ..

You want me to answer your hypothetical question that never happened, that you just made up, and has logic flaws in it to boot....By not answering it because I feel its irrelevant to the topic, and to what could have happened, since that situation never existed, you feel you proved your point ..

So instead of you talking about what really happened you want to talk about make believe things and its the same make believe situation that never happened that to you is what makes me look bad and you look good!! ..

Alright but that is some reach there ..

Once Edmonton got permission to keep Gretzky, which was the whole point in the first place of this discussion due in part to his special contract...The decision to use 1 of their 4 protection picks and keep him turned into a NO BRAINER for the Oilers....Therefore making the decision to never having to expose him to any draft as blatantly obvious. Concluding that it makes your question even more strange and totally irrelevant no matter what you think might or would have happened.. Besides Gretzky, the Oilers chose to in addition protect Bengt Gustafsson, Ed Mio and Dave Dryden as they entered the NHL, therefore not exposing or risking the loss of them either..

So rather that researching Gretzky's personal services contract and its effects on the WHA merger, which I clearly have explained to you above, and provided actual web links to sources that also support and back up what I am saying..

You still would just rather make up things and talk about them...

Even funnier is the fact that this somehow makes you right because you want to answer your own made up question, and you feel that supports your position on the personal services contract????

You have no way to support anything you say or think because it never happened, and worse would never happen due to the way the situation unfolded. However that's okay with you, you see no problem with that logic..

Anything else that never happened that you want to talk about ????


Last edited by Mess: 12-29-2004 at 01:12 AM.
Mess is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 09:03 PM
  #43
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
So let me get this straight .. You want me to answer a hypothetical question that never happened that you made up, and by not answering it because its irrelevant what could have happened, because the situation never existed, you feel you proved your point ..

So instead of you talking about what really happened you want to talk about make believe things and its the same make believe situation that never happened is what makes me look bad and you look good ..

Alright but that is some reach there ..

When once Edmonton got permission to keep Gretzky that they would use 1 of their 4 protection picks and keep him was a NO BRAINER, never having to expose him is blatantly obvious .. which then even makes your question even more strange.. Besides Gretzky, the Oilers protected Bengt Gustafsson, Ed Mio and Dave Dryden as well..

So rather that researching Gretzky's personal services contract and its effects on the WHA merger .. You would just rather make up things to talk about them ..

Even funnier is the fact that this somehow makes you right because you want to answer your made up question, and you feel that supports your position on the personal services contract????

No way to support anything you say or think because it never happened but that's okay with you, you see no problem with that logic ..

Anything else that never happened that you want to talk about ????
Does anybody have a clue what he's talking about? What is this thing "that never happened?" that he's talking about?

Anybody at all understand what he's talking about here?

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 09:31 PM
  #44
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 5,109
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
Does anybody have a clue what he's talking about? What is this thing "that never happened?" that he's talking about?

Anybody at all understand what he's talking about here?
Perfectly.

IWD is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 09:57 PM
  #45
TrueBlue
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton, home of Pa
Posts: 1,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
Does anybody have a clue what he's talking about? What is this thing "that never happened?" that he's talking about?

Anybody at all understand what he's talking about here?

Totally.
That's why we ask him to explain some hockey related material that were unsure of.

TrueBlue is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 11:15 PM
  #46
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icewind Dale
Perfectly.
OK Dale, so what is the "thing that never happened" that he's talking about?

FerrisRox is offline  
Old
12-28-2004, 11:45 PM
  #47
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
Totally.
That's why we ask him to explain some hockey related material that were unsure of.

Mess is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 09:45 AM
  #48
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox
OK Dale, so what is the "thing that never happened" that he's talking about?
One thing was that the Leafs didn't buy Gretz from Pocklington before the WHA joined the NHL. Too bad, would have been nice to buy that personal services contract from Pocklington so the Leafs could have owned any services that Gretz had to offer.

Of course we are talking Ballard and he would not offer Keon a contract let alone offer to buy a personal services contract from Pocklington so that he could own the services of ole Wayner.

I wonder if Pocklington would have sold that personal services contract that tied Gretz to him for any amount of money. Would have been interesting to see if that personal services contract could legally be sold to free up 99 so that another team could legally have him play for them.

I suppose Pocklington could have rented out The Great One to another team if the personal services contract allowed him to do so. Would have been interesting to see the boy pimped out under that personal services contract to Pocklington play for another team. Peter could then increase his rental fee under that personal services contract every season. Imagine how much Pocklington could have got for him under that personal services contract after his 200 point seasons?

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 09:51 AM
  #49
TrueBlue
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton, home of Pa
Posts: 1,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
One thing was that the Leafs didn't buy Gretz from Pocklington before the WHA joined the NHL. Too bad, would have been nice to buy that personal services contract from Pocklington so the Leafs could have owned any services that Gretz had to offer.

Of course we are talking Ballard and he would offer Keon a contract let alone offer to buy a personal services contract from Pocklington so that he could own the services of ole Wayner.

I wonder if Pocklington would have sold that personal services contract that tied Gretz to him for any amount of money. Would have been interesting to see if that personal services contract could legally be sold to free up 99 so that another team could legally have him play for them.

I suppose Pocklington could have rented out The Great One to another team if the personal services contract allowed him to do so. Would have been interesting to see the boy pimped out under that personal services contract to Pocklington play for another team. Peter could then increase his rental fee under that personal services contract every season. Imagine how much Pocklington could have got for him under that personal services contract after his 200 point seasons?
:lol
That's hilarious. Pocklington pimping out Gretzky. Pocklington referred to as 'John".

TrueBlue is offline  
Old
12-29-2004, 11:30 AM
  #50
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
One thing was that the Leafs didn't buy Gretz from Pocklington before the WHA joined the NHL. Too bad, would have been nice to buy that personal services contract from Pocklington so the Leafs could have owned any services that Gretz had to offer.

Of course we are talking Ballard and he would not offer Keon a contract let alone offer to buy a personal services contract from Pocklington so that he could own the services of ole Wayner.

I wonder if Pocklington would have sold that personal services contract that tied Gretz to him for any amount of money. Would have been interesting to see if that personal services contract could legally be sold to free up 99 so that another team could legally have him play for them.

I suppose Pocklington could have rented out The Great One to another team if the personal services contract allowed him to do so. Would have been interesting to see the boy pimped out under that personal services contract to Pocklington play for another team. Peter could then increase his rental fee under that personal services contract every season. Imagine how much Pocklington could have got for him under that personal services contract after his 200 point seasons?
Hey Ulfie

Pockington actually did sell the contract in a way .. He got $15 million in the deal when he sent him to LA in trade. .. Mind you he did actually have to have the official personal contract nullified first, so one would believe it was not transferable to anyone else.... And then the amount was in Canadian funds to boot so what would that have been in 1988 ??? .......45 cents on the dollar ??

However this renting idea has some merit .. but Pocklington would not do that because then who would wash is car, which Greztky did each weekend as part of the Personal Services Contract ..

All Kidding aside .. Here is a direct quote from Pocklington himself ..

"There is no price on greatness. They'd have my head if I sold him." - Peter Pocklington. - March 31, 1980

"Traded from Edmonton to Los Angeles Kings along with defenseman Marty McSorley and centre Mike Krushelnyski in exchange for centre Jimmy Carson, left winger Martin Gelinas, the Kings' first-round draft picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993, as well as $15 million Canadian. " - August 9, 1988


Last edited by Mess: 12-29-2004 at 12:20 PM.
Mess is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.