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06-10-2012, 08:30 PM
  #276
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by Stealth JD View Post
lol...100 posts in this thread alone today. I've been too busy with a new job in the last year to spend any significant time on this board lately...but for one day anyway it's been nice to talk hockey again.

And some of this stuff has actually been a good discussion.

I can't wait for the draft. Most of what we are saying, in particular roster moves, doesn't mean anything until then.

I still say Army makes some move that will shock or wow us. I think that is why Russell and Cole will be here because of how cheap they are. They will allow us to bring in someone with a bigger salary.

Under 2 weeks now...

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06-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I think we have to plan on Pietrangelo's massive pay raise next summer. Shattenkirk will be getting a raise as well. We could have a better financial situation by then, but who knows. Perron and Oshie will get decent raises this summer as well.

Also I'm not so sure what it will take to get Jackman back. I'm sure some team will give him a contract that is more than he is worth. I can definitely see a team giving him 4 million per year over 3 or 4 years, which would hinder us from going after a Staal type player. Even at 3 million it would limit what we can do and that is the lowest I see him returning for.

I believe we can acquire someone that is high priced, I just don't think we can acquire more than 1.
I tend to agree with this line of thinking. However, if it's Bryan Allen or someone like that I think they can do both Allen and Jackman. Most of the higher end #2 dmen will cost enough to make it hard to accommodate Jackman knowing what raises are likely to be due in one year (though McDonald comes off the books too).

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06-10-2012, 08:32 PM
  #278
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you're doing it wrong:

INFRACTION, as it is not construction to the discussion at hand...is what the mod police would say on the trade board.

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06-10-2012, 08:35 PM
  #279
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Just imagine the shocking wildcard of acquiring Justin Schultz as a free agent. He's a righty so suddenly everything we thought we knew would be thrown into chaos. Chaos!!

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06-10-2012, 08:37 PM
  #280
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I tend to agree with this line of thinking. However, if it's Bryan Allen or someone like that I think they can do both Allen and Jackman. Most of the higher end #2 dmen will cost enough to make it hard to accommodate Jackman knowing what raises are likely to be due in one year (though McDonald comes off the books too).
If that's the case, I'd prefer to keep Cole, as Cole is getting better and we don't have another physical defenseman close to cracking the NHL roster. Jackman and Allen are both good, but they are getting closer to being on the decline, as opposed to Cole who will stay cost effective and should only improve in the next few years.

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06-10-2012, 08:38 PM
  #281
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Just imagine the shocking wildcard of acquiring Justin Schultz as a free agent. He's a righty so suddenly everything we thought we knew would be thrown into chaos. Chaos!!
Yeah, that would definitely shock and awe us. If that happens, I give up speculating.

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06-10-2012, 08:42 PM
  #282
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Not enough hostility in here. Pick it back up or I'll feed you your parents in a bowl of chili...With pubic hair.

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06-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #283
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Not enough hostility in here. Pick it back up or I'll feed you your parents in a bowl of chili...With pubic hair.
Screw us guys, you're going home?

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06-10-2012, 08:46 PM
  #284
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Screw us guys, you're going home?
Why would I leave now? This place has man-bear-pig central written all over it.

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06-10-2012, 08:55 PM
  #285
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Although me and P9 have disagreed a lot and maybe what is even considered arguing, I don't get what the hell is with all of the threatening and referring to some bar fight? I know that I'm new here but him and I have been disagreeing steady for the last couple days and not once did either of us threaten violence on one another... I'm disabled from a spinal disease if somebody wants to train to kick my ass all they gotta do is find a sparring partner at the nursing home. The whole internet tough guy thing is a little goofy if you ask me.

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06-10-2012, 09:00 PM
  #286
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Wife works at a nursing home...Yes, priority on training partners!

Joking of course, but I missed out on the ordeal as well. There's always a rogue fan that can't handle a forum and will take it too far though. I just pray I'm there when the meltdown occurs. LOL

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06-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post

I still say Army makes some move that will shock or wow us. I think that is why Russell and Cole will be here because of how cheap they are. They will allow us to bring in someone with a bigger salary.

Under 2 weeks now...
Anything Army does isn't shocking. Trading Brewer even though he was captain wasn't as big of a shock but I was really shocked that he traded Johnson and McClement midseason but it turned out for the better. One thing is for sure the Blues need a teammate to play alongside Petro. I think with the good possibility of Cola and Huskins leaving some space will open up but like others said getting Petro for the long-term is a must.

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06-10-2012, 09:21 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Stealth JD View Post
really? I tend to want to see the team made stronger by improving upon the weakest players. In my estimation, in terms of overall strengths, I'd rate last years d-men in this order

Petro, Shattenkirk, Polak, Jackman, Russell, Colaiacovo, Cole, Huskins

I think most would agree that Colaiacovo & Huskins are gone for sure...and that Cole will be given a top-6 role barring some unforeseen happenings. If Russell and Jackman are both back that rounds out the top-6...unless a trade or free agent is brought in. In that case, I see Russell as the odd man out.

Seeing as how the defense overall was physically run over by the Kings forwards, this team needs to get some more size on the backend...hence my proposal of making a trade for Marc Staal which would leave:

Staal - Petro
Cole - Kirk
Jax - Polak
Russell

That team is much more playoff ready...and Russell and Jackman can rotate depending on the match-ups.

If wanting to make the team bigger and more skilled makes me an idiot, then guilty as charged. If only I could be as wise as you. Please forgive my ignorance.
If you go back about 3 weeks on the stl today forums youll see where i mentioned Staal being the guy i want to play next to Petro but your dreaming thinking we can get both Staal's to STL.

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06-10-2012, 09:36 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Ignore42me View Post
If you go back about 3 weeks on the stl today forums youll see where i mentioned Staal being the guy i want to play next to Petro but your dreaming thinking we can get both Staal's to STL.
The Blues have the pieces to make it happen...whether they have the desire and the intestinal fortitude to do so is an entirely separate issue.

Jordan Staal would solidify the center position, and if wanted, could allow Backes to return to RW. JS would probably cost a top-6 winger and a little something extra...not exactly an unreasonable/impossible price to pay. Armstrong would essentially be rebalancing the forwards...one in, one out...plus perhaps a modest something extra.

Marc Staal would be the wild-card. He'd probably cost 2 roster players, one of whom would definitely be a top-9 forward. But with two top-9 forwards seemingly ready now (or at least by mid-season) to step in...subtracting one forward to bring in another d-man doesn't seem impossible.

For argument's sake...let's say Perron & a 1st go to NYR for Marc, and Stewart/Oshie and McRae go to Pittsburgh for Jordan. That would leave:

McDonald-Backes-Oshie/Stewart
Steen-Staal-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Berglund-D'Agostini (or UFA)
Sobotka-Nichol-Langenbrunner
ex: Reaves, Grachev

Cole-Petro
Staal-Shattenkirk
Russell/Jackman-Polak
Ex: Russell/Jackman, UFA

Fairchild, Rattie, Edmundson, Hakanpaa, Jaskin & Wannstrom all remain in the system.

Seems possible to do without gutting the roster or the system.

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06-10-2012, 09:59 PM
  #290
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ask fred about the bar fight...

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06-10-2012, 10:09 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
Anything Army does isn't shocking. Trading Brewer even though he was captain wasn't as big of a shock but I was really shocked that he traded Johnson and McClement midseason but it turned out for the better. One thing is for sure the Blues need a teammate to play alongside Petro. I think with the good possibility of Cola and Huskins leaving some space will open up but like others said getting Petro for the long-term is a must.
Of course Brewer wasn't a shock, everyone knew he would be gone.

The Johnson trade was a shock and it took balls. People around here were disappointed in Johnson and kind of wanted a trade, but that didn't mean anyone actually thought it would happen. Most of us were shooting down proposals because we all thought Johnson would just take longer to develop.

If Army makes a big trade or signs a big free agent it would be considered a shock IMO. We can speculate all we want on here, but if we wake up tomorrow or whenever and we learn that we traded for Staal (any of them), Krejci, Stastny, or anyone else that could be available we would all be surprised and shocked. If we learned that we signed Suter or Garrison, we would be shocked.

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06-11-2012, 09:38 AM
  #292
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EDIT: Whoops, meant to put on another thread.

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06-11-2012, 12:24 PM
  #293
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1) The Blues specifically targeted Russell in the Nikitin trade to get a guy with the exact skill-set that Hitckcock wants from his D-men pairings. His (3rd) pairing was successful at their job. He performed well in the post-season (on the 3rd pairing). I don't think there is really much to talk about here. Russell is going to continue to be part of that successful pairing with Polak. Just because a couple fans want something different at that position (in contradiction to how Hitchcock/Armstrong are crafting this team) its really not worth so many pages of pointless blather.

2) I don't understand what the problem is with identifying which UFA players are the best fit for what the Blues need. They need a high-end LHD who can pair with Pietro, play a ton of minutes, and prevent the opposition from keying in on Pietro too much. Armstrong showed the patience last year of not signing or trading for a lesser player. Its pretty clear that he knows what he needs there, and isn't going to spend resources on something less.

Garrison and Suter are the UFA guys that would be exactly what the Blues are looking for. They would cost NO assets to acquire, but have a slightly higher salary (Suter moreso). The Blues could afford this if they let Jackman and Colaiacovo walk, and slide Cole up. This is with the assumption that the team cap is going to remain roughly the same as last season (which I think is probably a little pessimistic for a team that knows its a legit Cup contender now).

3) If neither of the above 2 players are options, I don't see a 3rd UFA guy that fills the role as well. I think Armstrong has been negotiating potential deals for more than a year now for the guy(s) he knows could fill that role. Chances are that it will be more painful for the Blues because they'll have to trade value to get value. But the Blues have the pieces necessary to make just such a trade!

The timing of such a move could happen a few different ways. If its not going to be in the off-season, then re-signing Jackman makes a lot of sense. But if one of the above targets can be had (or a trade consummated) then I think Jackman will wear a different colored sweater next season.

This thread is kind of painful to read. There are some out-of-left-field comments. Frankly, I really don't understand what a couple of you guys are arguing about. This is the time of year when we just enjoy the Stanley Cup Finals, get hyped for the draft, and then watch as all the different dominoes start falling around the league in the free agency signings. I don't see what there is to get huffy about with fellow-fans.

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06-11-2012, 01:27 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
1) The Blues specifically targeted Russell in the Nikitin trade to get a guy with the exact skill-set that Hitckcock wants from his D-men pairings. His (3rd) pairing was successful at their job. He performed well in the post-season (on the 3rd pairing). I don't think there is really much to talk about here. Russell is going to continue to be part of that successful pairing with Polak. Just because a couple fans want something different at that position (in contradiction to how Hitchcock/Armstrong are crafting this team) its really not worth so many pages of pointless blather.


Garrison and Suter are the UFA guys that would be exactly what the Blues are looking for. They would cost NO assets to acquire, but have a slightly higher salary (Suter moreso). The Blues could afford this if they let Jackman and Colaiacovo walk, and slide Cole up. This is with the assumption that the team cap is going to remain roughly the same as last season (which I think is probably a little pessimistic for a team that knows its a legit Cup contender now).

3) If neither of the above 2 players are options, I don't see a 3rd UFA guy that fills the role as well. I think Armstrong has been negotiating potential deals for more than a year now for the guy(s) he knows could fill that role. Chances are that it will be more painful for the Blues because they'll have to trade value to get value. But the Blues have the pieces necessary to make just such a trade!

The timing of such a move could happen a few different ways. If its not going to be in the off-season, then re-signing Jackman makes a lot of sense. But if one of the above targets can be had (or a trade consummated) then I think Jackman will wear a different colored sweater next season.

This thread is kind of painful to read. There are some out-of-left-field comments. Frankly, I really don't understand what a couple of you guys are arguing about. This is the time of year when we just enjoy the Stanley Cup Finals, get hyped for the draft, and then watch as all the different dominoes start falling around the league in the free agency signings. I don't see what there is to get huffy about with fellow-fans.
We all agree that Petro needs a linemate. I realize that Suter would fit the role perfectly but I see him getting nabbed up by Detroit for his long-term appeal and leadership with Lidstrom and Stuart leaving. Personally I don't know if Garrison is the answer, after all he has had one 30 point season and doesn't play a confrontational game. If Jackman is let go, a crease-clearing, confrontational defenseman is gone unless they can get Allen. With the lack of in-your-face play it will be like watching the Montreal Canadiens. Jackman has appeal to a lot of teams for his established play and reliability and letting him hit the free market as a UFA to obtain a guy that could or could not perform could be a huge mistake in my opinion.

I understand the appeal to many of Russell with transitional play but I think he needs to offer more than just that and the Blues need a third liner that can play 82 games not average two to three unrelated injuries per season and show up before the playoffs. I personally wouldn't be surprised if two months into the season if he ends up with an injury.

Some of us don't follow the same ideas as others. That happens, I don't see why the popular opinion of what the Blues need is considered set in stone. If our opinions were valued that much we'd be working for the Blues instead of posting on HFBoards about them.

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06-11-2012, 03:22 PM
  #295
bleedblue1223
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It's not like Russell gets multiple injuries in every season...

Also Garrison is bigger and hits more than Jackman, so I don't understand why you don't like him.

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06-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #296
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I may be alone with this thought, but I'd like to see Souray.

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06-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #297
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I may be alone with this thought, but I'd like to see Souray.
Gotta be cheap and short-term. I'd probably only offer him a 1 year deal.

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06-11-2012, 04:22 PM
  #298
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Gotta be cheap and short-term. I'd probably only offer him a 1 year deal.
Agreed.

He earned $1.65 last year, so $2-2.2 would be a decent cap hit. He's still got one heck of a slapshot.

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06-11-2012, 04:30 PM
  #299
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Agreed.

He earned $1.65 last year, so $2-2.2 would be a decent cap hit. He's still got one heck of a slapshot.
I'm still a big fan of Cole, so if we do go after Souray, I'd hope that means we are making a trade for an upgrade at forward and not striking out on the available defensemen.

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06-11-2012, 04:37 PM
  #300
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I'm still a big fan of Cole, so if we do go after Souray, I'd hope that means we are making a trade for an upgrade at forward and not striking out on the available defensemen.
If we signed Souray, I'd expect Jackman to be testing free agency and Cole hopefully being able to fill those shoes.

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