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06-09-2012, 09:34 PM
  #126
Harley83
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By those standards why don't we just dream we'll end up with Semin, Parise, Selanne, Jagr, Suter, Stuart, and Brodeur since we are gorgeous oil tycoons. It's just called being realistic P9, as a St. Louis fan the Blues just made the playoffs for the first time in a couple seasons and some women want a stable home ready to provide a 34 pound wedding ring. A lot of gorgeous women are just materialistic and shallow like that..

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06-09-2012, 09:38 PM
  #127
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No I referred to Garrison as a supplement because he doesn't have an established level of play in the NHL not trying to offend you. He has only had two full seasons at the pro-level. One fight at the NHL level compared to Jackman's 54 says a lot about willingness to stand up for teammates and confrontation. We lost to LA because they would pile in front of the goal and the confrontational play wasn't there to protect the goal and make them pay the price for being there. Did Garrison win a Calder or wear an A for a pro-team yet? I'm not saying Garrison is terrible or that he wouldn't work out but he isn't confrontational enough to take over Jackman's role nor does he have the professional experience. Jackman has a proven track record you don't have to guess what you are going to get with him in terms of gritty play.

We all watch the same NHL as you do. Some of us just have a different point of view. That's all.
I've kind of always been a 6 or 7 on a 1-to-10 Blues fan scale running from anti to pro Jackman. It's why I keep saying if we're just getting a one-dimensional d-man (defense only) then we might as well keep Jackman. I do recognize what Jackman brings.

I respectfully disagree that it was front of net scrums that best explain the loss to LA. What LA's pressure forecheck exposed on our defense is that in the playoffs with the pace being even faster the D needs to make an immediate, accurate decision to get the puck out. If there's the slightest hesitation or poor decision making or poor execution in making that first pass to get the puck back out, then whichever team is playing well enough to win the Cup that the Blues will eventually have to confront and overcome (whether it's LA one year or a different team the next) is going to kill you and hem you in your own zone and wear you down. It takes more energy to clear your own zone than it does to hem the other team in.

To me, this was the problem in the LA series. I understand you see it differently, you see it as a crease-clearing issue but how is the crease even being repeatedly crashed unless the D is consistently unable to smoothly and immediately get the puck out? To continue the medical analogies, by the time you're worrying about crease-clearing you're treating the disease after it's developed. I'm emphasizing preventive medicine that allows you to spend more time creating problems for the other team's defensemen because the ice is tilted the other way.

I also think that athletes playing for the Cup are tremendously competitive. To decide that Garrison will be passive in that situation is making an argument to fit a conclusion you want to make. It's so speculative as to deserve being completely thrown out. And saying that Garrison not having worn an A in his brief NHL career as a knock on him in the context of a Blues team with plenty of leadership, again, if these are the best arguments against Garrison then I know I'm on solid ground.

Also, as you well know, citing 54 fighting majors as an argument about the current Jackman (because the current Jackman is the only thing that's relevant here) is pretty disingenuous. Jackman barely fights, but it's a side point because it's pretty irrelevant to winning.

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06-09-2012, 09:38 PM
  #128
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We just finished 2nd in the NHL, have a great young core, and have a better financial situation than some of you think.

We are a more attractive destination than some of you think we are.

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06-09-2012, 09:40 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
By those standards why don't we just dream we'll end up with Semin, Parise, Selanne, Jagr, Suter, Stuart, and Brodeur since we are gorgeous oil tycoons. It's just called being realistic P9, as a St. Louis fan the Blues just made the playoffs for the first time in a couple seasons and some women want a stable home ready to provide a 34 pound wedding ring. A lot of gorgeous women are just materialistic and shallow like that..
Really? Is this extreme absurdism really something I'm supposed to take seriously as an rebuttal of some kind?

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06-09-2012, 09:43 PM
  #130
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Are newbies required to be this pessimistic?

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06-09-2012, 09:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
By those standards why don't we just dream we'll end up with Semin, Parise, Selanne, Jagr, Suter, Stuart, and Brodeur since we are gorgeous oil tycoons. It's just called being realistic P9, as a St. Louis fan the Blues just made the playoffs for the first time in a couple seasons and some women want a stable home ready to provide a 34 pound wedding ring. A lot of gorgeous women are just materialistic and shallow like that..
Thank you!

Of course we should go after Suter and Garrison! That is Army's job, but people need to quit acting like everyone else aside from those 2 are unacceptable because chances are, we are not getting either of those two. The Blues are still finding their financial footing. The Wings and the Panthers are in great shape financially. That's why they were able to do so much last summer.

Just for bleedblue.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...ut-season.html

“First and foremost, I want to be part of this team. I love the guys in here and everything this team stands for.’’ …

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06-09-2012, 09:46 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Are newbies required to be this pessimistic?
I don't get the bizarre extreme dichotomies. Either the Blues are so poor they can't even consider paying one bigger contract for a guy to play a premium role or if you argue they can you're arguing they're the richest team in the league and can throw unlimited contracts at eight or nine top-end talents. It's such an insultingly simple either-or, it makes it so you can't even discuss things.

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06-09-2012, 09:47 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We just finished 2nd in the NHL, have a great young core, and have a better financial situation than some of you think.

We are a more attractive destination than some of you think we are.
Really? Have you taken a look at their financial statements such as their balance sheet, income statement, cost flow statements, notes to financial users? You probably haven't and probably don't have a clue what things to look for.

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06-09-2012, 09:49 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
Thank you!

Of course we should go after Suter and Garrison! That is Army's job, but people need to quit acting like everyone else aside from those 2 are unacceptable because chances are, we are not getting either of those two. The Blues are still finding their financial footing. The Wings and the Panthers are in great shape financially. That's why they were able to do so much last summer.

Just for bleedblue.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...ut-season.html

“First and foremost, I want to be part of this team. I love the guys in here and everything this team stands for.’’ …
That is nothing definitive. He was still apart of the team and they were still playing, so of course he is going to say that. If he said anything different, people would have hated him.

Florida wouldn't be considering trading his rights at the draft if they thought they could sign him.

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06-09-2012, 09:55 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
Really? Have you taken a look at their financial statements such as their balance sheet, income statement, cost flow statements, notes to financial users? You probably haven't and probably don't have a clue what things to look for.
Look at the players leaving. A rise in the salary cap, means a rise in the cap floor. With the players leaving, we will have a similar payroll even if we sign Garrison.

If you paid attention, Checketts said that if we made a deep run in the playoffs, we would've been in the black. Now that obviously didn't happen, but it means that we are closer to being in the black than some would think.

New ownership is cutting costs, which is why Davidson will be moving on. Combine that with the raise in ticket prices, real sellouts instead of manufactured ones, and expected playoff revenue next season, next years budget will look a lot better.

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06-09-2012, 09:55 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
That is nothing definitive. He was still apart of the team and they were still playing, so of course he is going to say that. If he said anything different, people would have hated him.

Florida wouldn't be considering trading his rights at the draft if they thought they could sign him.
Then why did you even bother asking me for a source that said he wanted to sign if you were just going to claim that the player would have just lied about it anyways and shouldn't be trusted. Do you honestly think people here are low enough to purely lie about hearing about something like that? I think given the amount of information suggesting that panthers going to resign him far outweighs any information suggesting that the Blues are even close. Sure the Blues are probably looking at him, but can you find me a source that says the Blues are significantly interested like the panthers are?

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06-09-2012, 09:57 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Look at the players leaving. A rise in the salary cap, means a rise in the cap floor. With the players leaving, we will have a similar payroll even if we sign Garrison.

If you paid attention, Checketts said that if we made a deep run in the playoffs, we would've been in the black. Now that obviously didn't happen, but it means that we are closer to being in the black than some would think.

New ownership is cutting costs, which is why Davidson will be moving on. Combine that with the raise in ticket prices, real sellouts instead of manufactured ones, and expected playoff revenue next season, next years budget will look a lot better.
Oh so you're saying the Blues should sign Semin, Parise, Selanne, Suter, Stuart, Jagr and Brodeur then?

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06-09-2012, 09:59 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post

New ownership is cutting costs, which is why Davidson will be moving on. Combine that with the raise in ticket prices, real sellouts instead of manufactured ones, and expected playoff revenue next season, next years budget will look a lot better.
Give me some concrete numbers here if you want to claim that we are in a better financial situations than you think we are in. Go to their financial statements and pull out some numbers here.

Sorry, can't help but ask you to back up what you say regarding their financial information. I have a major in Finance and would love to see you put down some financial ratios. Go ahead. It should only take you a few minutes to find their balance sheet, latest cash flow statement, and latest income statement.

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06-09-2012, 10:03 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
Then why did you even bother asking me for a source that said he wanted to sign if you were just going to claim that the player would have just lied about it anyways and shouldn't be trusted. Do you honestly think people here are low enough to purely lie about hearing about something like that? I think given the amount of information suggesting that panthers going to resign him far outweighs any information suggesting that the Blues are even close. Sure the Blues are probably looking at him, but can you find me a source that says the Blues are significantly interested like the panthers are?
Answer why would the Panthers consider trading his rights at the draft, if they think they can sign him?

I follow European football, Chelsea in particular, so I know not to put much stock into rumors. There are only a few people that I trust on rumors, and I haven't heard anything from them on Garrison. I believe he will test the market, and I believe his rights will be traded at the draft.

Players always say they want to stay with their current team. He was probably asked a question, and it is completely unprofessional to say I want to sign somewhere else while he is still playing for that team.

Things change, remember when Pujols wanted to retire a Cardinal. The list can go on and on. Athletes play the PR game, they are not brutally honest individuals.

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06-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #140
Harley83
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
I don't get the bizarre extreme dichotomies. Either the Blues are so poor they can't even consider paying one bigger contract for a guy to play a premium role or if you argue they can you're arguing they're the richest team in the league and can throw unlimited contracts at eight or nine top-end talents. It's such an insultingly simple either-or, it makes it so you can't even discuss things.
No us newbies aren't required to be pessimistic.. Both of you have no problem shooting sarcasm at others, do you have a problem taking it? P9 said sarcastically nobody wants to come here because we are so unattractive and made fun of Fred so I was stating that we might as well dream big and lasso all of the leagues top talent with our unlimited money and gigantic appeal.. Basically we just made the playoffs for the first time in a couple season and have just switched ownership. It's a rebuilding process and as a fan I'm just being realistic. I doubt the Blues could match the kind of offers that Detroit is going to offer Suter.

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06-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
Give me some concrete numbers here if you want to claim that we are in a better financial situations than you think we are in. Go to their financial statements and pull out some numbers here.

Sorry, can't help but ask you to back up what you say regarding their financial information. I have a major in Finance and would love to see you put down some financial ratios. Go ahead. It should only take you a few minutes to find their balance sheet, latest cash flow statement, and latest income statement.
Well I'm an Accountant, and know they don't have to release their financial statements.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 06-10-2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Deleted jab
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06-09-2012, 10:09 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Well I'm an Accountant, and know they don't have to release their financial statements. A Finance person would know that.
Are the Blues not publicly traded? I thought a couple reporters said they were. SEC requires those types of companies to release financial statements under GAAP.

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06-09-2012, 10:12 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by FredBrathwaite View Post
Are the Blues not publicly traded? I thought a couple reporters said they were. SEC requires those types of companies to release financial statements under GAAP.
Not sure if this is a real question?

If it is, no they are not publicly traded. Only professional sports team that is publicly owned is the Green Bay Packers, not sure if they have to release financial statements though.

If it isn't, insert sarcastic comment here.

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06-09-2012, 10:12 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
No us newbies aren't required to be pessimistic.. Both of you have no problem shooting sarcasm at others, do you have a problem taking it? P9 said sarcastically nobody wants to come here because we are so unattractive and made fun of Fred so I was stating that we might as well dream big and lasso all of the leagues top talent with our unlimited money and gigantic appeal.. Basically we just made the playoffs for the first time in a couple season and have just switched ownership. It's a rebuilding process and as a fan I'm just being realistic. I doubt the Blues could match the kind of offers that Detroit is going to offer Suter.
Oh please. My comment about the girls accurately captures his actual argument. Literally, it is in direct parallel to what he's explicitly bullet-pointed. Other teams are more attractive suitors and therefore it is guaranteed our interest will fail therefore we should utterly and irritatedly dismiss all discussion about pursuing what we want. Instead we should go after Paul Martin (who is terrible and who Pens fans have been begging to give away if they could).

By total contrast, your totally ridiculous reply in no way captures mine. See the difference?

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06-09-2012, 10:15 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Not sure if this is a real question?

If it is, no they are not publicly traded. Only professional sports team that is publicly owned is the Green Bay Packers, not sure if they have to release financial statements though.

If it isn't, insert sarcastic comment here.
You do realize that this was my entire point, right? The Blues don't have their financial statements available so is one able to look at their financial information and conclude that the "blues are better financially than you think we are?"

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06-09-2012, 10:17 PM
  #146
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Right, because that's all nurses do. For the record, I plan on finishing up by becoming a nurse anesthetist...Don't insult my intelligence.
And when your patient wakes in the OR…you come running to me! Yay!

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06-09-2012, 10:23 PM
  #147
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Anyways, I'm out to finish the Devil's game. Later.

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06-09-2012, 10:24 PM
  #148
bleedblue1223
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You do realize that this was my entire point, right? The Blues don't have their financial statements available so is one able to look at their financial information and conclude that the "blues are better financially than you think we are?"
Then why respond when I already answered why...

It doesn't take a financial genius to read in between the lines of what has been reported, the price increases, the past few season's false sellouts compared the the end of the season's real sellouts, and the deduction in costs through the letting go of executives and other areas.

Our financial situation is improving and with some of the investors that we have, including the Taylor family and their billions, they can afford more than you think.

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06-09-2012, 10:40 PM
  #149
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I would miss something like that. Back to the topic at hand...I fear it's trade or bust in this search. Too many idiots willing to blow money in a few weeks.

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06-09-2012, 10:47 PM
  #150
Randall Ritchey
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I still say we target Tallinder. However, I wouldn't argue with bringing Salvy back either.

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