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It is Boyling this time of year. (Offseason Speculation Thread Part IV)

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #751
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The most comparable player to Suter is Chara. Both are #1 dmen with emphasis on the defensive side of the puck. Suter is much more of a puckmover than sniper while Chara is renowned for his booming shot. Chara was paid more than $7.5 and the Bruins won the cup, end of discussion. Additionally, there is a slight tilt for teams on overall offense when adding premier puckmoving over sniping. It isn't about the individual player scoring more, it is about the team scoring more and creating a greater goal diff. Both Suter and Chara are wins in terms of creating a greater goal differential.
Well except their shots are not comparable at all

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06-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
Winnik - Pavelski - Wingels
This line needs to happen.

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06-13-2012, 02:29 PM
  #753
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This line needs to happen.
Agreed. I have wet dreams about this being our third line going into next season.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:59 PM
  #754
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I'm still sad we never saw a Winnik-Wingels-Winchester line or something.

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06-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #755
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I'm still sad we never saw a Winnik-Wingels-Winchester line or something.
Because Tmac didn't want to "Win".

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:03 PM
  #756
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m)
Zach Parise ($7.400m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($0.950m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Brandon Mashinter ($0.578m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($0.688m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,715,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,584,333

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06-13-2012, 04:07 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
Because Tmac didn't want to "Win".

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:07 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m)
Zach Parise ($7.400m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($0.950m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Brandon Mashinter ($0.578m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($0.688m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,715,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,584,333
What happens when you need to re-sign Couture, Braun, Demers, and Greiss?

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:08 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m)
Zach Parise ($7.400m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($0.950m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Brandon Mashinter ($0.578m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($0.688m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,715,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,584,333
Winnik wont sign for that little. Otherwise, nicely done.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:09 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
What happens when you need to re-sign Couture, Braun, Demers, and Greiss?
You rob a bank? Or you go the Chicago route - set yourself up for cap hell just to win it all. Our window is closing (if not already) anyway.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:09 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
What happens when you need to re-sign Couture, Braun, Demers, and Greiss?
You expect the CAP to go up and/or trade Boyle and/or trade one or more for cheaper assets and picks etc...

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:10 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by thrillermiller89 View Post
Winnik wont sign for that little. Otherwise, nicely done.
Ooops, I forgot to give him a raise. Well there's enough left over to give him 1.8 or so.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:12 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
What happens when you need to re-sign Couture, Braun, Demers, and Greiss?
Marleau and Boyle will be FA's by then, plenty of cap room for everybody

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
You rob a bank? Or you go the Chicago route - set yourself up for cap hell just to win it all. Our window is closing (if not already) anyway.
My lineup was based on the fact that I see Nash as the most realistic 'star forward' addition we can make and Suter as the most likely UFA signing we have a chance at. Parise is a pipe dream imo (as is suter, but at least with Suter there is SOME connection).

The issue you run into with Suter though is that you have three options, none ideal:

1) Wait till July 1st to see if you can sign Suter, if so trade Boyle at that point. Problem being teams are going to know you are in cap trouble at this point, especially if you've already signed Nash or Parise or something and Boyle's value will be diminished.

2) Trade for Suter's rights early, then sign him and shop Boyle's rights, same situation as above, but more options and time. Still cannot trade Boyle at draft because of his clause.

3) Keep both Boyle AND Suter thereby limiting your options to improve at forward.

In the end I think 2 is the smartest move. It will cost us something to get Suter's rights (Clowe is my guess, we know Trotz likes him). Maybe we do a little package deal like Clowe and our 2nd for Suter's rights and Nashville's 1st. Either way, it gives us exclusive time to get him signed and that is likely our best chance. He's a good enough player that it is worth the risk imo.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Ultimately, you are exacerbating the problem from last year. We basically traded a forward for a defenseman, and you do the same thing this year. Remember how this team played with only five top-six forwards when Havlat was out; now this team will always be like that.

I also think that Edler + Higgins is an underpayment for Boyle + Clowe.

Agreed. First thing I thought of when I saw that lineup was how the forward depth issue was not addressed in the slightest. Remember that in '09 the Sharks iced arguably their best defensive group in the history of the franchise, and they still got bounced in the first round because they couldn't put the puck in the net. Puck movement and speed on the back-end are issues that need to be addressed, but if it's at the expense of the forward group then it's not worth it.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:20 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
Agreed. First thing I thought of when I saw that lineup was how the forward depth issue was not addressed in the slightest. Remember that in '09 the Sharks iced arguably their best defensive group in the history of the franchise, and they still got bounced in the first round because they couldn't put the puck in the net. Puck movement and speed on the back-end are issues that need to be addressed, and but if it's at the expense of the forward group then it's not worth it.
I don't get what you guys are talking about. Our bottom-6 is the same as this season, and I'm totally fine with that. I feel our bottom-6 was excellent to end the season, though they were stifled by our crap system like everyone else.

Top-6 wise we get a LOT faster (Clowe/Pavelski for Nash/Higgins) and we have all of our players playing at the natural positions basically (except Marleau, who can play any position).

As for prospect depth, I didn't address that at all as I was just doing a cap chart but I would assume some of those players I moved out would return picks and prospects.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:27 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
What would you guys think of a trade along the lines of:

Ryane Clowe
Doug Murray

for

Drew Stafford
Jordan Leopold

Stafford may not solve our speed problems, but he's much faster than Clowe and is a natural right handed RW with a good shot and good hands. You could separate Thornton and Pavs and let Pavs go back to Center. Leopold is a LD with puck moving ability, and is very consistent and good defensively.

Buffalo gets comparable pieces and size/toughness.

The other thing that is good about it is Stafford/Leopolds contracts are structured in a way that will gives us flexibility on what we want to do come the dreaded 2014-2015 offseason. Where as Clowe is going to ask for a lot more money next year putting strain on what we do with Couture/Pavs/Boyle/Thornton/Marleau.

(Could buyout Handzus, but kept him just for depth/possible bounce back ability)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.500m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / T.J. Galiardi ($1.000m)
Tommy Wingels ($0.875m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.750m) / James Sheppard ($0.761m)
Michal Handzus ($2.500m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.666m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Brad Stuart ($3.200m) / Dan Boyle ($6.667m)
Jordan Leopold ($3.000m) / Justin Braun ($1.300m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) /

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,990,917; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,309,083
I proposed this trade to Buffalo fans and they seem to like it.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:40 PM
  #768
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Am I the only one who would want Stalock as our backup should we keep Niemi?

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:41 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau View Post
I proposed this trade to Buffalo fans and they seem to like it.
Sweetness! Lets do it.

To me this is a reasonable "could happen" trade that doesn't hurt our future and makes us a bit younger and helps address our needs with still trying to give our core another shot at it.

I'm starting to think Nash is going to go to New York.

And I'm 99% feeling we aren't landing Parise, Semin or Suter.

So I don't really consider those options anymore.

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06-13-2012, 04:42 PM
  #770
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I like it.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:45 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
Sweetness! Lets do it.

To me this is a reasonable "could happen" trade that doesn't hurt our future and makes us a bit younger and helps address our needs with still trying to give our core another shot at it.

I'm starting to think Nash is going to go to New York.

And I'm 99% feeling we aren't landing Parise, Semin or Suter.

So I don't really consider those options anymore.
I agree. A rare win-win deal on HF.

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06-13-2012, 04:50 PM
  #772
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^Promote this guy to "sophomore user" because rookies can't make trades that well.

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06-13-2012, 04:53 PM
  #773
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^Promote this guy to "sophomore user" because rookies can't make trades that well.
You are giving me too much credit. Murdock came up with it, I was just the messenger.

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06-13-2012, 04:56 PM
  #774
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^Promote this guy to "sophomore user" because rookies can't make trades that well.
I used to post on David Pollack's WTC but I stopped since it was constant bickering among the fans. This is where the real hockey talk is at.

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06-13-2012, 05:03 PM
  #775
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In the end I think 2 is the smartest move. It will cost us something to get Suter's rights (Clowe is my guess, we know Trotz likes him). Maybe we do a little package deal like Clowe and our 2nd for Suter's rights and Nashville's 1st. Either way, it gives us exclusive time to get him signed and that is likely our best chance. He's a good enough player that it is worth the risk imo.
And then Suter signs with Detroit so we gave up Clowe and a 2nd for nothing since Buffalo own's Nashville's 1st this year.

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