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It is Boyling this time of year. (Offseason Speculation Thread Part IV)

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #951
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by TheRealAllstar10 View Post
I dont buy this at all. If Joe plays with Nash and Pavs, he will pass to the one who has a better chance to score the goal at that moment.
If other teams put heavier coverage on Nash than Pavs which is very likely, i can see pavs scoring 30 with nash maybe scoring 35-40
Or a defenseman if they have a better chance. This whole thing about JT passing to only one player is bull ****.

It may have looked that way during 3 games during the POs when Marleau was asked to screen Eliot

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06-15-2012, 11:28 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Hypothetically, if you traded Marleau for a package similar to Mike Richards (less, but you get the idea), and then proceeded to sign Parise, the team would technically be better.
At worst, the Marleau to Parise flip is a lateral move (I'd argue Parise is better if not simply because of the age factor). Both are good defensively. Marleau has size and is more physical. Parise is a better forechecker and is more crafty.

Unrealistic yes, but it's not like one of those ridiculous impossible scenarios like trading Marleau for Giroux/Crosby (which also would make the team better).
Marleau can't get that kind of return because of his movement clause and his age. Richards was available to anyone at the time and was young in comparison.

It's not impossible to trade Marleau but it's impossible to trade him in a way that makes your team better for next season with the goal being to win the Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
I guess I can only go by my eyeballs' estimation where I notice Marleau floating a lot.

And it's hard for Thornton to hit and block shots when he has the puck, duh
Marleau is floating a lot in the offensive zone because he is covering Thornton and Pavelski defensively. It is his responsibility to be the third man high as he is the only one with the ability to get back quickly. That leads to a lot fewer offensive opportunities and the look of floating. You're not nearly as physically engaged in that role.

And the Thornton line is a cop-out. He was in just as many defensive situations as Marleau and didn't have the puck all the time. The reality is that the standards people use to criticize the two are different and people are much more willing to give Thornton a pass even though his play had a big part in why they were consistently hemmed in by the Blues.

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Old
06-16-2012, 12:51 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's not impossible to trade Marleau but it's impossible to trade him in a way that makes your team better for next season with the goal being to win the Cup.
Marleau for Parise is a lateral move at worst. So whatever you get for Marleau (one elite third liner or whatever it may be) makes the team better does it not?


Last edited by WTFetus: 06-16-2012 at 12:56 AM.
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06-16-2012, 12:54 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Or a defenseman if they have a better chance. This whole thing about JT passing to only one player is bull ****.

It may have looked that way during 3 games during the POs when Marleau was asked to screen Eliot
I agree. People who said it during the regular season were just trying to find any excuse for Marleau's low point totals. You could blame it on the lack of a transition game, but that's hardly on Thornton. The season before this proved that Thornton could play a fast transition game if asked (most of Marleau's transition goals came from a fast breakout from Thornton).

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06-16-2012, 11:16 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
It might not be entirely his fault (I think a lot of it is based on my own opinion) but sometimes a coach will be fired to shake things up. We need a shake-up. Sure there will be a lot of fans that are sad/mad/up-in-arms.. but they will get over it. They will move on. They will grow. And their house will no longer be a death trap for firefighters.
Thornton has been here for as long as we've been contenders, and he gets off scotch-free. People sure have short memories.

You know what, I want Marleau traded. So when the Sharks still can't win a Cup, everyone here will look stupid. But I'm sure they'll find a different reason for why the Sharks are failing. Can't be that Marleau is an integral part of this team or anything like that.

Anyway, there's obviously nothing I can point out that will make rational the irrational.



I rest my case.[/QUOTE]

Yeah because it was a serious response. No one said that Marleau wasn't an integral piece..I like Marleau but if they moved him to make the Sharks better...I wouldn't be irate or upset. Its a moot point since he has a NMC/NTC anyway.

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06-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Marleau for Parise is a lateral move at worst. So whatever you get for Marleau (one elite third liner or whatever it may be) makes the team better does it not?
The idea of Parise signing here is a dream scenario. Even if you did manage to land it, trading Marleau for an elite third liner is still not making the team better on its own. Signing a Parise doesn't mean you need to move Marleau to make it work. Moving people like Clowe and/or Murray would be better for the team than moving Marleau in such a scenario. Plus, the top six speed going from Marleau to Parise is a net gain of zero at best when this team needs more of it in those skill spots.

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Old
06-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The idea of Parise signing here is a dream scenario. Even if you did manage to land it, trading Marleau for an elite third liner is still not making the team better on its own. Signing a Parise doesn't mean you need to move Marleau to make it work. Moving people like Clowe and/or Murray would be better for the team than moving Marleau in such a scenario. Plus, the top six speed going from Marleau to Parise is a net gain of zero at best when this team needs more of it in those skill spots.
It's too bad that something like the following couldn't happen:

Trade something like Marleau, Clowe, Murray, 2nd for the 1st overall and something back salary wise.

Draft Nail Yakupov

Sign Parise

Sign UFA defensemen for bottom pairing to replace Murray

Couture-Thornton-Yakupov
Parise-Pavelski-Havlat

Get faster, younger and some additional cap space to use at the deadline.

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Old
06-16-2012, 07:46 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
It's too bad that something like the following couldn't happen:

Trade something like Marleau, Clowe, Murray, 2nd for the 1st overall and something back salary wise.

Draft Nail Yakupov

Sign Parise

Sign UFA defensemen for bottom pairing to replace Murray

Couture-Thornton-Yakupov
Parise-Pavelski-Havlat

Get faster, younger and some additional cap space to use at the deadline.
I'm bored so I put more thought into this to create a dream scenario.

Trade Marleau, Clowe, Murray, 2nd for 1st overall and Ryan Jones
Trade Boyle for picks/prospects

(If the value isn't there or the Oilers need a RD, Murray can be swapped out for Demers/Braun and remove the 2nd)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Ryan Jones ($1.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Nail Yakupov ($3.750m)
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Arron Asham ($0.775m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.633m) / James Sheppard ($0.761m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Brad Stuart ($3.500m) / Justin Braun ($2.000m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,113,583; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,186,417

The window is kept open much longer and set-up a future top line/pairing of:

Parise-Couture-Yakupov
Suter-Burns


Last edited by Splitbtw: 06-16-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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Old
06-16-2012, 09:47 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
I'm bored so I put more thought into this to create a dream scenario.

Trade Marleau, Clowe, Murray, 2nd for 1st overall and Ryan Jones
Trade Boyle for picks/prospects

(If the value isn't there or the Oilers need a RD, Murray can be swapped out for Demers/Braun and remove the 2nd)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Ryan Jones ($1.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Nail Yakupov ($3.750m)
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m)
T.J. Galiardi ($0.735m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Arron Asham ($0.775m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.633m) / James Sheppard ($0.761m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.500m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Brad Stuart ($3.500m) / Justin Braun ($2.000m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m)
Thomas Greiss ($0.588m)
BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,113,583; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,186,417

The window is kept open much longer and set-up a future top line/pairing of:

Parise-Couture-Yakupov
Suter-Burns
That line-up looks incredible and makes me want to get season tickets w/o having enough money, but completely unrealistic. xD

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Old
06-16-2012, 10:01 PM
  #960
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by Splitbtw View Post
It's too bad that something like the following couldn't happen:

Trade something like Marleau, Clowe, Murray, 2nd for the 1st overall and something back salary wise.

Draft Nail Yakupov

Sign Parise

Sign UFA defensemen for bottom pairing to replace Murray

Couture-Thornton-Yakupov
Parise-Pavelski-Havlat

Get faster, younger and some additional cap space to use at the deadline.
That would be an insane overpayment that the oilers would gladly take.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
That would be an insane overpayment that the oilers would gladly take.
Yeah, three 30+ players fits exactly into their plan.

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Old
06-17-2012, 02:23 AM
  #962
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Yeah, three 30+ players fits exactly into their plan.
I hear veteran leadership is very important.

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Old
06-17-2012, 02:25 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
That would be an insane overpayment that the oilers would gladly take.
I would do that for Eberle.

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Old
06-17-2012, 02:34 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The idea of Parise signing here is a dream scenario. Even if you did manage to land it, trading Marleau for an elite third liner is still not making the team better on its own. Signing a Parise doesn't mean you need to move Marleau to make it work. Moving people like Clowe and/or Murray would be better for the team than moving Marleau in such a scenario. Plus, the top six speed going from Marleau to Parise is a net gain of zero at best when this team needs more of it in those skill spots.
You said there is simply no way the team can get better by trading Marleau.

Marleau - Thornton - Galiardi
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Winnik - Pavelski - Moore

vs

Parise - Thornton - Galiardi
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Winnik - Pavelski - elite third liner (Simmonds, Clutterbuck).

Is the latter not better? Sure you can get even better by not trading Marleau, but that wasn't my point. You made it seem like if you trade Marleau, the team will be worse no matter what.

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06-17-2012, 04:34 AM
  #965
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Leafs board is seriously discussing a rumor that Burke is going to trade for Marleau and/or Clowe.

One poster suggests 35th overall + MacArthur for Vlasic.

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Old
06-17-2012, 04:42 AM
  #966
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Trades:
Niemi, Clowe, 2nd 2012 to CBJ for Nash, 3rd 2012
Marleau (waive NMC), Greiss to STL for Halak, 1st 2012, 2nd 2013
Murray, Petrecki, 3rd 2012 to WPG for E. Kane (sign & trade)

FA signings:
R. Suter: 5 years, 7.2M Cap hit
Stuart: 3 years, 2.8M
R. Whitney: 2 yrs, 2M
Winnik: 3 years, 2M
Sturm: 1 year, 1.1M
Prust: 2 years, 600k

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Ray Whitney ($2.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m)
Marco Sturm ($1.100m) / Evander Kane ($2.500m) / Daniel Winnik ($2.000m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.594m) / Tommy Wingels ($0.660m) / Brandon Prust ($0.600m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.666m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Ryan Suter ($7.200m) / Brad Stuart ($2.800m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Justin Braun ($0.688m)
GOALTENDERS
Jaroslav Halak ($3.750m)
Alex Stalock ($0.688m)
BUYOUTS
Michal Handzus ($0.833m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,460,500; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $770,500

its a lot of trade work sure, but that team wins us a cup my friends.


Last edited by Bizz06: 06-17-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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Old
06-17-2012, 05:29 AM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizz06 View Post
Trades:

Murray, Petrecki, 3rd 2012 to WPG for E. Kane (sign & trade)

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06-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #968
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Leafs board is seriously discussing a rumor that Burke is going to trade for Marleau and/or Clowe.

One poster suggests 35th overall + MacArthur for Vlasic.

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06-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
You said there is simply no way the team can get better by trading Marleau.

Marleau - Thornton - Galiardi
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Winnik - Pavelski - Moore

vs

Parise - Thornton - Galiardi
Clowe - Couture - Havlat
Winnik - Pavelski - elite third liner (Simmonds, Clutterbuck).

Is the latter not better? Sure you can get even better by not trading Marleau, but that wasn't my point. You made it seem like if you trade Marleau, the team will be worse no matter what.
The comparison isn't addressing the issue. Whether the latter is better or not is irrelevant because trading Marleau for the third liner doesn't make the team and has no impact on whether they can sign Parise or not. You're making it a package deal when it isn't. The point that they can't trade Marleau and be better for it still stands, imo.

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06-17-2012, 11:26 AM
  #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Leafs board is seriously discussing a rumor that Burke is going to trade for Marleau and/or Clowe.

One poster suggests 35th overall + MacArthur for Vlasic.
Just read it and some dude is claiming they'll get something like

Marleau + 1rst for Schenn + 2nd


Can't stop laughing.

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06-17-2012, 11:34 AM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Just read it and some dude is claiming they'll get something like

Marleau + 1rst for Schenn + 2nd


Can't stop laughing.
Sorry to jump in on your board here lol, but I have nothing better to do lol.


Anyways, I saw that as well, and how dare you make fun of him...he claims he has insider info so therefore it must be legit


Edit: Another piece from him. Most amusing part is that some Leaf fans actually think he is legit
Quote:
Looks like Luongo to SJ is very real... Niemi will be moved, apparently in a package for Nash...


Last edited by Avs44: 06-17-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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06-17-2012, 11:35 AM
  #972
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No problem. That made my day though. All of the trades he's claiming are gonna go down make the Sharks slower and older.

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06-17-2012, 12:12 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Sorry to jump in on your board here lol, but I have nothing better to do lol.


Anyways, I saw that as well, and how dare you make fun of him...he claims he has insider info so therefore it must be legit


Edit: Another piece from him. Most amusing part is that some Leaf fans actually think he is legit
We laugh now but...if any of these happen, I'll probably end up crying

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06-17-2012, 12:58 PM
  #974
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Curious about something.

If we were to trade Jumbo would Patty be able to center the top line? This assuming we get atleast one top-line winger (outside of the other acquisitions) in return.

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06-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Curious about something.

If we were to trade Jumbo would Patty be able to center the top line? This assuming we get atleast one top-line winger (outside of the other acquisitions) in return.
If you give him Couture, I think a Patty-Couture combo would be fine. Neither of those two is good enough to be a true #1C at this point in their respective careers, but together I think they could suffice. Also, remember that in the unlikely event that the Sharks traded JT, it would signal a rebuild.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Leafs board is seriously discussing a rumor that Burke is going to trade for Marleau and/or Clowe.

One poster suggests 35th overall + MacArthur for Vlasic.
That whole thread was really sad. As if we're going to trade Marleau AND our first to get Luke freaking Schenn.


Last edited by TheJuxtaposer: 06-17-2012 at 01:40 PM.
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