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Trade Rumors and Proposals Part XXVI

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:16 PM
  #901
kolider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
What about Silfverberg, is he not considered to be a top prospect? He was the MVP of the SEL regular season & playoffs & helped that team win the championship? The other point regarding Silfverberg is that most have him plugged in as the 1st line LW which is exactly where Nash would play so why not include him in the trade? If they want Zibanejad, Stone or Lehner than there is no deal & we can look elsewhere.

Personally, I would trade Foligno (47 NHL pts), Silfverberg (SEL MVP), Bishop (AHL All-Star) & 2013 1st rd pick & add Bulter, if they wanted a little more. That to me is a reasonable package, Foligno has already proven he can play & score in the NHL. Most think Silfverberg will be a better player, at least more offensive than Foligno which could mean a 50 pt potential. Bishop would certainly help Columbus problems in net & all three are pencilled in to play in Ottawa next season. A 1st rd pick next yr would give them two drafts in a row with two first round picks or more, it's a reasonable package for a top end player.
Admittedly, I forgot about Silfverberg. So sure, he could technically be considered a high end prospect. Especially given his SEL track record but he was still a 2nd rounder and could be viewed as a mid-grade prospect by other teams...

That being said, we are going down the road of over-valuing our prospects again...

Bishop? We got him for a 2nd rounder 5 months ago...
Butler as an add-in is pretty bad since he is subtracting from the roster, not adding to it.

Players like Nash don't grow on trees, he is an all-star caliber player who is still young, on top of this, CLB isn't forced to move him aka Heatley with OTT.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:17 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
For Nash, I think Columbus is looking at something as follows:

- One of Zibanejad or Silfverberg
- One of Puempel, Stone, Noesen, or Lehner
- One of Foligno or Bishop
- 1st-round pick (#15 overall)
Yep. This is pretty much what the deal would be to land Nash. We might get a 2nd rounder back from CLB though to help ease the pain.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Nash is a top player, you gotta give to get.

Not to mention with other teams in the running, the price will be high to outbid the others.

It cost us a 2nd on top of Rundblad to score Turris.
A top player on a bad team. Kinda like Kovalchuk when he was in Atlanta. Still not worth that package because he's not a slam dunk to be better with better offensive support.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:28 PM
  #904
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Stone gets an assist....immediately leapfrogs Silfverberg who didn't get an assist.

Lehner puts up a bad season in the AHL...remains untouchable.
Bishop puts up a stellar season in the AHL...trade him.
Anderson stands on his head in the playoffs...gets pencilled in as Lehner's future backup.

Puempel plays bad...will trade for bag of pucks.
Foligno plays good...will trade with a bag of pucks for Rick Nash.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Nash is their best player, and has a general reputation as being an elite player (not saying it's necessarily warranted). What makes you think they won't ask for one of our best players in return? I imagine many CBJ fans would be up in arms if the jackets accepted Spezza for Nash straight up.

(Karlsson is a different story)
i know id be outraged if we offered Spezza for Nash straight up.

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06-18-2012, 12:31 PM
  #906
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With Stuart signing a 3 year deal in San Jose, wonder what it would take to get Murray?

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:36 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
i know id be outraged if we offered Spezza for Nash straight up.
Yep, because the idea of Nash being in Spezza's level is comical.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I'm not sure I would even want Nash, but if a deal gets made I assume it would be something like Michalek, Foligno, 1st rounder and a pretty high up prospect, maybe Lehner maybe.
2 roster players who can play now
1st rd pick
high end prospect

And to be honest, looking at that deal, it makes us a better team probably immediately, and opens up an extra roster spot that's probably needed. I could be way off base I dont know, but that would be my expectations if a deal actually happened.
I think that would make us worse immediately. Replace our best winger by trading our 2nd and 3rd best wingers? ... We don't have the depth to handle a deal like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
For Nash, I think Columbus is looking at something as follows:

- One of Zibanejad or Silfverberg
- One of Puempel, Stone, Noesen, or Lehner
- One of Foligno or Bishop
- 1st-round pick (#15 overall)
Columbus can't accept that deal. Remove Foligno from that list and the entire thing is 'futures'. Columbus will be packed up and moved to Quebec City long before those futures turn out.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Nash is their best player, and has a general reputation as being an elite player (not saying it's necessarily warranted). What makes you think they won't ask for one of our best players in return? I imagine many CBJ fans would be up in arms if the jackets accepted Spezza for Nash straight up.

(Karlsson is a different story)
They won't get an "elite" player in return. I don't see any other team with elite players that are cash strapped to force them to make such trade, considering Nash has a hefty 7.8 cap hit with his name.

So unless a team like Minnesota wants to do a Heatley for Nash straight up, which doesn't exactly improve Columbus, then they have to be expecting a bit less now with the future to have higher potential. (prospects, picks)

They will probably want 2 younger top 6 forwards who still have room to improve, since they are rebuilding and not retooling. The cap hit Nash has will work against Columbus in terms of getting full value right now.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:59 PM
  #910
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Jagr

All this talk about the Sens and Nash is scaring the crap out of me. I know Nash and Spezza is a sexy thought but do we really want to end up like the Sens of 07 where one line could be shut down or like the Kings of this year with a rock solid, deep top 9.

Our prospect pool from the last 2 years is still so raw, I'd like to wait and see what we have before moving them. That said, we do need to address scoring for the top 6 (winger) but also don't want to give up any big assets our scouts worked their butts off to find. With news of him testing out free agency, would you guys give Jagr a 1 year 3-3.5 mill looksie? He put up 50-some points last year and was constantly applauded for having a terrific locker-room attitude. He also shook off the rust of being outside the nhl for 3 years, and has mentioned that this offseason he is changing his training to get some extra speed and quickness. I'm not too the moon over this idea, but it could give us a good temporary solution in the top 6 while we can evaluate our coming prospect depth at forward. He also would probably be a big help on what can only be described as our joke of a powerplay.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:02 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
I'm not sure why people think we can acquire a team's best player without offering up any of our top players or prospects.

Nash won't come here, but if he did, the asking price would almost certainly include names like Karlsson, Spezza, Turris, Cowen, Michalek or Zibanejad.
I can see your point when people are talking about guys like Daugavins and Butler that its unrealistic, but there's no way they are getting someone like Spezza or Karlsson for Nash. Deals like that just never happen.

CBJ wouldn't even want that - its putting all their eggs in one basket. They would rather have 1st rounders, blue chip prospects and young emerging players

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06-18-2012, 01:05 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by DonthaveaCOWEN View Post
All this talk about the Sens and Nash is scaring the crap out of me. I know Nash and Spezza is a sexy thought but do we really want to end up like the Sens of 07 where one line could be shut down or like the Kings of this year with a rock solid, deep top 9.

Our prospect pool from the last 2 years is still so raw, I'd like to wait and see what we have before moving them. That said, we do need to address scoring for the top 6 (winger) but also don't want to give up any big assets our scouts worked their butts off to find. With news of him testing out free agency, would you guys give Jagr a 1 year 3-3.5 mill looksie? He put up 50-some points last year and was constantly applauded for having a terrific locker-room attitude. He also shook off the rust of being outside the nhl for 3 years, and has mentioned that this offseason he is changing his training to get some extra speed and quickness. I'm not too the moon over this idea, but it could give us a good temporary solution in the top 6 while we can evaluate our coming prospect depth at forward. He also would probably be a big help on what can only be described as our joke of a powerplay.
I don't think Jagr is a fit. I don't think Ottawa is looking for a 1 year stopgap and Jagr isn't looking to join a rebuilding/retooling team (unless it's Montreal but that's because of the city).

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06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
Yep, because the idea of Nash being in Spezza's level is comical.
yes, yes it is.
not only that its even more comical to think that we would trade from the more important position (C) where we have far less depth of high end talent on the roster and in prospects to get a winger even if he were an "equivalent" player.

so yes, i would be outraged if we offered up Spezza for Nash not too mention my response was in the context of a post that suggested CLB fans "would be up in arms" if they got Spezza for Nash straight up.

now i know im making it seem as though your post was inane and demonstrated marked ignorance but that's simply due to the fact that it was, although im sure you thought you were being clever.
Gold star for you.

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06-18-2012, 01:16 PM
  #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonthaveaCOWEN View Post
All this talk about the Sens and Nash is scaring the crap out of me. I know Nash and Spezza is a sexy thought but do we really want to end up like the Sens of 07 where one line could be shut down or like the Kings of this year with a rock solid, deep top 9.

Our prospect pool from the last 2 years is still so raw, I'd like to wait and see what we have before moving them. That said, we do need to address scoring for the top 6 (winger) but also don't want to give up any big assets our scouts worked their butts off to find. With news of him testing out free agency, would you guys give Jagr a 1 year 3-3.5 mill looksie? He put up 50-some points last year and was constantly applauded for having a terrific locker-room attitude. He also shook off the rust of being outside the nhl for 3 years, and has mentioned that this offseason he is changing his training to get some extra speed and quickness. I'm not too the moon over this idea, but it could give us a good temporary solution in the top 6 while we can evaluate our coming prospect depth at forward. He also would probably be a big help on what can only be described as our joke of a powerplay.
I say get the both .....Thats a pretty dirty Top 9

Rick Nash / Jason Spezza / Mark Stone
Jakob Silfverberg / Kyle Turris / Daniel Alfredsson
Milan Michalek / Peter Regin / Jaromir Jagr

pp unit 1
Nash Spezza Alfredsson
Karlsson Gonchar
pp unit 2
Michalek Turris Jagr
Karlsson Alfreddson

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:17 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
yes, yes it is.
not only that its even more comical to think that we would trade from the more important position (C) where we have far less depth of high end talent on the roster and in prospects to get a winger even if he were an "equivalent" player.

so yes, i would be outraged if we offered up Spezza for Nash not too mention my response was in the context of a post that suggested CLB fans "would be up in arms" if they got Spezza for Nash straight up.

now i know im making it seem as though your post was inane and demonstrated marked ignorance but that's simply due to the fact that it was, although im sure you thought you were being clever.
Gold star for you.
Actually, my post was in reference to the post that suggested CLB fans "would be up in arms" if they got Spezza for Nash straight up as well. I was piling on. I realize now it wasn't crystal clear.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:19 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
Actually, my post was in reference to the post that suggested CLB fans "would be up in arms" if they got Spezza for Nash straight up as well. I was piling on. I realize now it wasn't crystal clear.
lol, i think im a little trigger happy. i havent popped off for awhile....

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06-18-2012, 01:20 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
yes, yes it is.
not only that its even more comical to think that we would trade from the more important position (C) where we have far less depth of high end talent on the roster and in prospects to get a winger even if he were an "equivalent" player.

so yes, i would be outraged if we offered up Spezza for Nash not too mention my response was in the context of a post that suggested CLB fans "would be up in arms" if they got Spezza for Nash straight up.

now i know im making it seem as though your post was inane and demonstrated marked ignorance but that's simply due to the fact that it was, although im sure you thought you were being clever.
Gold star for you.
You're one of those posters, huh?

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06-18-2012, 01:21 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
A top player on a bad team. Kinda like Kovalchuk when he was in Atlanta. Still not worth that package because he's not a slam dunk to be better with better offensive support.
Its not a slam dunk that any of our top-6 prospects turn out to be anywhere near as good as Nash either.

Don't get me wrong I do think he is somewhat overrated and definitely overpaid.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:24 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Tape2Tape View Post
I'd assume Eugene already gave his blessing to Murray if we are indeed kicking tires on Nash.

Murray wouldn't waste his time if he didn't know he has the owner's approval to bring in that contract.
I doubt Murray needs any approval to kick the tires on any trade, however in the case of Nash if Howson made a proposal Murray liked, you can bet your last dollar Melnyk would be involved.

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06-18-2012, 01:25 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
You're one of those posters, huh?
and you're one of those eh?

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:26 PM
  #921
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To me, dealing Michalek in the Nash trade is somewhat of a lateral move. They are going to have similar production imo. We need to add to the top 6, not subtract from it.

Michalek - Spezza - Alfredsson
? - Turris - ?

That's out top 6 right now with the remaining spots to likely filled by Regin, Stone, Zbad, Silf etc...

Add in Nash and it looks a whole lot nicer.

Nash - Spezza - Michalek
Silfverberg - Turris - Alfie

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06-18-2012, 01:28 PM
  #922
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I don't think Jagr is a fit. I don't think Ottawa is looking for a 1 year stopgap and Jagr isn't looking to join a rebuilding/retooling team (unless it's Montreal but that's because of the city).
What if Alfie says I will come back if we sign Jags? Then you gotta think they do it, why wouldnt they? The sens young forward prospects are still very young and raw, develop them properly.

I hope they stay the hell away from Nash this team is in a great rebuilding position keep the rebuild going build through the draft, you only trade for a player like Nash when you are one piece away. The majority of this teams core forwards arent even close to peaking right now (Turris, Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Stone, Noessen) plus this team is going to get another stud d man at 15. Spezza has 4 to 5 really good years left in 3 years from now if they want to make a push thats the time to do it.

I think the biggest concern outside of signing Karlsson long term is they get him a D partner this teams going to be in desperate need of a top 3 D man or its going to be a real struggle. Kuba played huge minutes.

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06-18-2012, 01:29 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Collins View Post
With Stuart signing a 3 year deal in San Jose, wonder what it would take to get Murray?
Probably not much.

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06-18-2012, 01:30 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by Dblad the Impaler View Post
Nash is their best player, and has a general reputation as being an elite player (not saying it's necessarily warranted). What makes you think they won't ask for one of our best players in return? I imagine many CBJ fans would be up in arms if the jackets accepted Spezza for Nash straight up.

(Karlsson is a different story)

Well an educated fan-base would take a proven point producer with a PPG average in the regular season and playoffs over an overrated winger.

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06-18-2012, 01:31 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
What if Alfie says I will come back if we sign Jags? Then you gotta think they do it, why wouldnt they? The sens young forward prospects are still very young and raw, develop them properly.

I hope they stay the hell away from Nash this team is in a great rebuilding position keep the rebuild going build through the draft, you only trade for a player like Nash when you are one piece away. The majority of this teams core forwards arent even close to peaking right now (Turris, Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Stone, Noessen) plus this team is going to get another stud d man at 15. Spezza has 4 to 5 really good years left in 3 years from now if they want to make a push thats the time to do it.

I think the biggest concern outside of signing Karlsson long term is they get him a D partner this teams going to be in desperate need of a top 3 D man or its going to be a real struggle. Kuba played huge minutes.
I agree all of your points here. With Jagr, if we can sign him, for sure do it. I just don't believe Jagr would pick us unless we make him an offer he can't refuse ($$$).

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