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#2 Finn in the NHL

View Poll Results: #2 Finn in the NHL
Miikka Kiprusoff 31 26.72%
Jere Lehtinen 38 32.76%
Tuomo Ruutu 15 12.93%
Olli Jokinen 17 14.66%
Teemu Selanne 3 2.59%
Kimo Timonen 6 5.17%
Joni Pitkanen 1 0.86%
Sami Kapanen 1 0.86%
I'm a very biased phi,cal,dal,chi,flo,col or nas fan. 4 3.45%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-23-2004, 03:20 PM
  #1
Evil Speaker
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#2 Finn in the NHL

Saku Koivu won last round with 29.68% of the votes (46). perhaps it's because of the abundance of Habs fans on this forum, who knows. This time around it'll look like there will be a close battle between Miikka Kiprusoff and Jere Lehtinen on who is the #2 Finn.
Perhaps you debaters from the last poll should refresh our memory on why you think the player you pick should take the #2 spot.

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Old
12-23-2004, 03:37 PM
  #2
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Lehtinen.

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Old
12-23-2004, 03:38 PM
  #3
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lehtinen

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12-23-2004, 04:04 PM
  #4
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Kippy.

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Old
12-23-2004, 04:17 PM
  #5
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3 Selke's, 6 nominations, lock for 20 goals when healthy>>> 64 games behind a really good defense.

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12-23-2004, 04:23 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
3 Selke's, 6 nominations, lock for 20 goals when healthy>>> 64 games behind a really good defense.
One of the best goaltenders in the world > Any forward not named Peter Forsberg or Markus Naslund.

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12-23-2004, 04:25 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
One of the best goaltenders in the world > Any forward not named Peter Forsberg or Markus Naslund.
Im sorry, I didnt know a potential fluke 64 games made someone one of the best goaltenders in the world.

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12-23-2004, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
3 Selke's, 6 nominations, lock for 20 goals when healthy>>> 64 games behind a really good defense.
You're right, Lehtinen has had a better career. That has little to do with right now though.

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12-23-2004, 04:26 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
You're right, Lehtinen has had a better career. That has little to do with right now though.
Other than the fact that Lehtinen is just as good now as he has been the past 8 years or so. Lets not forget Lehtinen is only 31 years old in the prime of his career.

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12-23-2004, 04:29 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Im sorry, I didnt know a potential fluke 64 games made someone one of the best goaltenders in the world.
Potential fluke?

Have you seen the guy play... I mean, do you own a TV?

Btw, 31 is NOT prime... we don't often see UFA's in their primes.

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12-23-2004, 04:29 PM
  #11
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Kiprusoff

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Old
12-23-2004, 04:31 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Fluke?

Have you seen the guy play... I mean, do you own a TV?
Yeah I've seen the guy play. I also saw how he was basically average in his time in SJ and then basically out of nowhere goes to Calgary, behind a very, very good defense, and puts up a 1/2 season of record-breaking numbers.

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12-23-2004, 04:32 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Btw, 31 is NOT prime... we don't often see UFA's in their primes.
Well I can tell you from watching Jere Lehtinen over the course of his career, he is right smack in the prime of his career, showing no signs of just dropping off from being the best defensive forward in the league.

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12-23-2004, 04:35 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Yeah I've seen the guy play. I also saw how he was basically average in his time in SJ and then basically out of nowhere goes to Calgary, behind a very, very good defense, and puts up a 1/2 season of record-breaking numbers.
This is a guy that tore up Europe and the AHL... and just recently posted a 1.48 GAA in the World Cup.

He's no fluke.

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12-23-2004, 04:39 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
This is a guy that tore up Europe and the AHL... and just recently posted a 1.48 GAA in the World Cup.

He's no fluke.
Tore up Europe? 3.00(only 4 games), 4.14, 2.53, 2.69, 1.86 in Finland.
Tore up the AHL? 2.48, 2.24, 1.73(4 games).

Then put up 2.48 and 3.25 in 2 seasons as a backup in SJ(one of which he had the opportunity to take the starting job when Nabokov was holding out, and failed miserably). And don't get me started on the World Cup, when that Finnish team played so ridiculously good defensively that he had to make almost no really difficult saves.

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12-23-2004, 04:41 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Well I can tell you from watching Jere Lehtinen over the course of his career, he is right smack in the prime of his career, showing no signs of just dropping off from being the best defensive forward in the league.
He's slowly having injury problems and posted an impressive +/- of -4 in the playoffs, along with his +/- of 0 during the regular season... around 15th best on his team.

He's not in his prime.

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12-23-2004, 04:44 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
He's slowly having injury problems and posted an impressive +/- of -4 in the playoffs, along with his +/- of 0 during the regular season... around 15th best on his team.

He's not in his prime.
Slowly having injury problems? Please. Sure he misses a few games every year, but thats it. And you want to judge him on the playoffs, when NO ONE on the team outside of Turco bothered to show up, or the regular season, when he played hurt most of the time on a team that couldn't score to save their life(2nd fewest goals amongst playoff teams, just a few more than St. Louis). Yeah, you catching one or 2 games of him a year really gives you the ability to state he's not in his prime

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12-23-2004, 04:46 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Tore up Europe? 3.00(only 4 games), 4.14, 2.53, 2.69, 1.86 in Finland.
Tore up the AHL? 2.48, 2.24, 1.73(4 games).

Then put up 2.48 and 3.25 in 2 seasons as a backup in SJ(one of which he had the opportunity to take the starting job when Nabokov was holding out, and failed miserably). And don't get me started on the World Cup, when that Finnish team played so ridiculously good defensively that he had to make almost no really difficult saves.
3.00 GAA as a 18 year old.
4.14 GAA as a 19 year old.
Back-to-back seasons in the Elite League as the #1 goaltender at the ages of 20 and 21.
26-6 record in the Finnish League at 22 years old.
A .926 career Save% in the AHL.
.915 Save% in his first full season in the NHL as a backup.

A GAA of 1.6 with the Finnish national team over the last 6 years, 11 games.

You can manipulate his numbers all you want by posting his GAA as a 19 year old kid, but aside from the 2002/03 season, he hasn't had a bad campaign in professional hockey since his rookie season with TPS Turku in 1995-96.

GAA means squat, it's all about Save%.

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12-23-2004, 04:49 PM
  #19
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+/- is the most over-rated and overused statistic in the history of sports. There are alot of different things that can effect a players +/- stat. There's an abundance of exceptional defensive players in the league that had a poor +/- stat last season, so please, don't use it in a debate.

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12-23-2004, 04:49 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
26-6 record in the Finnish League at 22 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
GAA means squat, it's all about Save%.
So you post his win/losses, which entirely depends on the team in front of him, then turn around and say GAA means squat. Why is that? Because the wins/losses helps your point and the GAA hurts it. Come on now. And "GAA means squat, it's all about Save%"...according to who? You?

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12-23-2004, 04:49 PM
  #21
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Lehtinen easily

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12-23-2004, 04:50 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan
Lehtinen easily
Finally someone else who sees past the "what have you done for me lately" mentality that rules this board.

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12-23-2004, 04:53 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
So you post his win/losses, which entirely depends on the team in front of him, then turn around and say GAA means squat. Why is that? Because the wins/losses helps your point and the GAA hurts it. Come on now. And "GAA means squat, it's all about Save%"...according to who? You?
Only reason I listed his W/L was because his Save% wasn't listed.

But I have found it... .936.

Better?

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12-23-2004, 04:54 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Only reason I listed his W/L was because his Save% wasn't listed.

But I have found it... .936.

Better?
And then followed that up with relatively average AHL numers(in terms of GAA, which believe it or not, does matter).

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12-23-2004, 04:57 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
And then followed that up with relatively average AHL numers(in terms of GAA, which believe it or not, does matter).
GAA is not as important as Save%.

Example... Roberto Luongo.

2.64 career GAA, doesn't do him justice.

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