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[PIT/WSH] Vokoun's rights for a '12 seventh rounder

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Old
06-05-2012, 12:48 PM
  #101
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If Vokoun had not said anything in regards to his future plans, perhaps GMGM could of gotten a better return, but TV coming out and saying that he had no intention in returning to the Caps, I'm surprised that GMGM was able to even get a 7th rounder.

I'm puzzled at some being upset that he was traded to the Pens. In a little less than 4 weeks he would have been free to sign with anyone including the Pens, so what's the problem?

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06-05-2012, 12:55 PM
  #102
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The problem?

One should only make concessions with the enemy when they realize victory is not possible

Or, if the concession is actually an old school trojan horse.

So we will wait for the glare, and then the tear.

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06-05-2012, 01:05 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
If Vokoun had not said anything in regards to his future plans, perhaps GMGM could of gotten a better return, but TV coming out and saying that he had no intention in returning to the Caps, I'm surprised that GMGM was able to even get a 7th rounder.
I mean...the fact that he's available by trade pretty much indicates just as well that he's not coming back to the Capitals. Totally irrelevant IMO.

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06-05-2012, 01:11 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
The problem?

One should only make concessions with the enemy when they realize victory is not possible

Or, if the concession is actually an old school trojan horse.

So we will wait for the glare, and then the tear.
From the sound of it, there were not other teams seriously knocking. Toronto was only interested in him for a one year contract and Philadelphia doesn't have the cap space for him, all per 30 thoughts.

Perhaps this is where TV can mentor MAF, if Pen fans get concerned about MAF roaming away from his net, just wait for them to see TV and his inclination to get out and about.

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06-05-2012, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
From the sound of it, there were not other teams seriously knocking. Toronto was only interested in him for a one year contract and Philadelphia doesn't have the cap space for him, all per 30 thoughts.

Perhaps this is where TV can mentor MAF, if Pen fans get concerned about MAF roaming away from his net, just wait for them to see TV and his inclination to get out and about.
Whats odd, why in the world would Pitt bother then? Perhaps because a 7th is a throw away pick and they didn't want to risk it. That 7 is basically nothing when the pool of the undrafted has countless players very similarly graded.

I dunno, I just sure hope we trade a roster player this year, and not see just these minor deals. I am growing tired of largely just adds, and then letting free agents walk for nothing. That our core doesn't have problems that need addressing.

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06-05-2012, 01:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I mean...the fact that he's available by trade pretty much indicates just as well that he's not coming back to the Capitals. Totally irrelevant IMO.
Not true. Move away from Vokoun for a minute and look at Wideman. Wideman has indicated that he would be interested in coming back to the Caps (please God no). GMGM by all appearances right now has some options available to him in regards to Wideman, even if he has no intention of resigning him. Vokoun took any option away from GMGM, it was either trade him or let him walk. Vokoun's comments right after the playoffs that he had no intentions of returning, somewhat hamstrung GMGM. But in reality it would of probably been no better for the Caps than acquiring maybe one or two rounds higher for him if that.

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06-05-2012, 01:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Not true. Move away from Vokoun for a minute and look at Wideman. Wideman has indicated that he would be interested in coming back to the Caps (please God no). GMGM by all appearances right now has some options available to him in regards to Wideman, even if he has no intention of resigning him. Vokoun took any option away from GMGM, it was either trade him or let him walk. Vokoun's comments right after the playoffs that he had no intentions of returning, somewhat hamstrung GMGM. But in reality it would of probably been no better for the Caps than acquiring maybe one or two rounds higher for him if that.
Seriously, this "helping the Penguins" stuff is some of the dumberest posts in HFBoards history and that's saying something.

The guy is a UFA.

He could have signed with anyone. But he wasn't signing here.

The Penguins are part of "anyone".

We got an asset out of a player who was not playing here next season.

For absolutely nothing.

Honestly, it's simple.

Hold your hand out. An empty hand. If someone places a coin in your hand, you got something. For nothing.

That's exactly what this is.

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06-05-2012, 01:27 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Whats odd, why in the world would Pitt bother then? Perhaps because a 7th is a throw away pick and they didn't want to risk it. That 7 is basically nothing when the pool of the undrafted has countless players very similarly graded.

I dunno, I just sure hope we trade a roster player this year, and not see just these minor deals. I am growing tired of largely just adds, and then letting free agents walk for nothing. That our core doesn't have problems that need addressing.
Both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have demonstrated this approach in the past, i.e Dan Hamhuis. The thing I'm more surprised at is at how quickly TV signed with the Pens rather than take a wait and see approach. You have goalie issues with the Florida teams and that's where his family is located. Boston now needs another goalie, though Thomas's salary is still impacting their cap. I suppose he just wanted to avoid a repeat of the "sour" experience he had last July and get it over quickly, plus he got two years.

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06-05-2012, 01:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
Seriously, this "helping the Penguins" stuff is some of the dumberest posts in HFBoards history and that's saying something.

The guy is a UFA.

He could have signed with anyone. But he wasn't signing here.

The Penguins are part of "anyone".

We got an asset out of a player who was not playing here next season.

For absolutely nothing.

Honestly, it's simple.

Hold your hand out. An empty hand. If someone places a coin in your hand, you got something. For nothing.

That's exactly what this is.
My sentiments as well, hence why I raised it in post 101.

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06-05-2012, 01:30 PM
  #110
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Would we have been happy if we traded him at the deadline for a 7th?

Was this a smarter move by Pitt or by George?

If Pitt (in the same conference which we clearly struggle to get out of), then perhaps George is aiding and abetting the enemy!!

It just sends the wrong message to Pens haters, perhaps. Dont get into a bunch.

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06-05-2012, 01:34 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Would we have been happy if we traded him at the deadline for a 7th?

Was this a smarter move by Pitt or by George? It was smart for George to get him less than a yea ago.

If Pitt (in the same conference which we clearly struggle to get out of), then perhaps George is aiding and abetting the enemy!!

It sends the wrong message to Pens haters, perhaps.
It's smart for both.

Pens get a backup goalie who has a track record.

Caps get a pick for absolutely nothing. The Pens are also paying at least 2 million dollars for a backup goalie, possibly 5 million if Fleury is benched. Essentially 7 million dollars of their cap in net, without an "elite" goalie to show for it.

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06-05-2012, 01:39 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Would we have been happy if we traded him at the deadline for a 7th?

Was this a smarter move by Pitt or by George?

If Pitt (in the same conference which we clearly struggle to get out of), then perhaps George is aiding and abetting the enemy!!

It just sends the wrong message to Pens haters, perhaps. Dont get into a bunch.
Randy, if it was some young stud who has all the potential in the world i.e. Varlamov that we were talking about, then I would agree with you. TV played well for us but I was always waiting for something bad to occur when he would start to drift out of the goal area, which he has a tendency to do. Besides, I've said it before, perhaps after the groin tear his five hole is now a ten hole.

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06-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Randy, if it was some young stud who has all the potential in the world i.e. Varlamov that we were talking about, then I would agree with you. TV played well for us but I was always waiting for something bad to occur when he would start to drift out of the goal area, which he has a tendency to do. Besides, I've said it before, perhaps after the groin tear his five hole is now a ten hole.
I wasn't referring to you getting bunched. I know its a minor move, and if his tenure here was any indication or if luck is on our side, it may be a trojan horse move. Seeing how goals were not his fault; glaring. Not handling being second fiddle to start the year well.

I may be the only one but I don't think he played well for us. I will remember him more inconsistent, angry, and 5 hole susceptible, than effective. He had a nice 10 game run. Whoopie pie.

I was one of the few that was upset that Holtby got shafted by this pickup. A move that didn't work out, in the end. The kids both struggled most of the year; I theorize because of them losing confidence since its apparent George didn't show confidence.

Does anyone else besides me think that we may have gone into the boring ass shell game because our goalies couldn't stop a beach ball? > 3GAA when Dale came on board, and Tivo was part of the problem.

I am not going to pat George on the back for getting TV nor for getting a 7th after seeing what happened this year.

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06-05-2012, 02:01 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ref9 View Post
Both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have demonstrated this approach in the past, i.e Dan Hamhuis. The thing I'm more surprised at is at how quickly TV signed with the Pens rather than take a wait and see approach. You have goalie issues with the Florida teams and that's where his family is located. Boston now needs another goalie, though Thomas's salary is still impacting their cap. I suppose he just wanted to avoid a repeat of the "sour" experience he had last July and get it over quickly, plus he got two years.
July 1st came early for him this year. He was shopping himself around, and the Pens had the best deal for him. There's no reason to expect the market to get better for him going forward, I'd think, only worse (someone acquiring Luongo etc.) so while there was always the chance that a team would crack and offer him a sweeter deal I have to imagine he wanted to get something good enough as quickly as possible.

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06-05-2012, 03:03 PM
  #115
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That's some wishful thinking. It's not like a team has never benefitted from having a good goaltending tandem.

Fleury is a team first guy. This is only going to be good for him to have a mentor.
If you were looking for a mentor who will complain to the press about not getting playing time, he's your guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
Caps get a 7th for a player they will make no effort to resign, and a hated rival gets a aged goalie with an ample 5 hole. Seems like win/win to me.
And I find it interesting to read some comments on the main board that say The Flower can learn from Vokoun, or Vokoun can teach The Flower. Vokoun and Neuvy are from the same friggin country and I was never left with the impression that Vokoun took Neuvy under his wing during last season. Just that Vokoun wanted to play everday and bristled when that wasn't the case.
Well said Wet Hog.

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06-06-2012, 06:16 AM
  #116
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Big bad 7th. Way to go GM. If he goes FA then maybe the cost goes up and hurts the pens to get him.

Pointless. Can't wait to see the UFA acq. of Wide man.

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06-06-2012, 08:55 AM
  #117
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Agreed Bonzai, i think its a coin flip at best to decide if he more did himself a favor, or Pitt.

Maybe its a more a PR stunt to compensate for getting nothing for yet another free agent set to walk after yet another failed playoff run. If true, it worked and folks took the bait, as it sure seems many here are going to bat vehemently defending George.

I refuse to overlook how collectively bad our 3 top Gs were for much of the year, and how it probably dictated the defensive shell we saw.

Can anyone offer up a reason why Holtby and Neuvy seemed to struggle for much of the year?

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06-06-2012, 09:06 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Can anyone offer up a reason why Holtby and Neuvy seemed to struggle for much of the year?
They were 22 and 23 years old, respectively?

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06-06-2012, 09:24 AM
  #119
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Nothing to see here, folks. Please move along.

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06-06-2012, 09:52 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DynamoAO View Post
They were 22 and 23 years old, respectively?
Not a bad guess. I will presume you believe its common for 22 and 23 year old goalie prospects to regress when a #1 G is brought in, much to their surprise, I am sure.

We agree on something! It was indeed probably not easy for them to go from being close to number 1 most of their careers, to being thrown into the backseat.

TVo is no kid, and even he had his struggles. Maybe age isn't always a convenient excuse after all.

Do you think Dale may have seen our porous goalie play and gone defensive because of that? Or was it unrelated, and he was just an idiot. That the key to the cup is firewagon playoff hockey.

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