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Penguins trade 2012 7th Rd. pick for Tomas Vokoun (re-signed for 2 yrs/$2M per)

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06-04-2012, 12:11 PM
  #101
Riptide
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Originally Posted by Jahodac View Post
3. How is Harding any better than Fleury?

4. With Vokoun getting older, we would be stuck with Harding as our starter and who knows what will come of him in the future.

5. Fleury/Vokoun is a great duo if they both pull their weight.
Harding isn't. However Detroit/Chicago both proved that you don't need elite goaltenders to win the cup. It helps, however if there's a strong team in front of them and they're decent, you should be fine. Spending less on your goaltending also gives you more money to spend up front.

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06-04-2012, 12:11 PM
  #102
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I could see a package deal for a winger and a pick or something to be honest if we DID sign Harding we wouldn't have to worry. Maybe I just hate fleury I'm not sure Haha.
I thought you meant a goalie. Still, Vokoun is kinda old and Harding has proven nothing except that he's an excellent backup and tends to get hurt (though I do like him in general). I'll stick with Fleury given that he's better than all but 10-12 goalies in the world at most.

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06-04-2012, 12:12 PM
  #103
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This is dumb. Fleury was great last season...but extremely overworked and it showed in the playoffs. Goldfish brains around here forget that he was a workhorse for big chunks of the year and only remember the first round of the playoffs where he was admittedly brutal.
Exactly. He was outstanding all season...was him and geno that carried us and as soon as the d system and pk sucks balls, its all fleurys fault.

Being a member of this fanbase blows sometimes

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06-04-2012, 12:13 PM
  #104
UnderratedBrooks44
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Harding isn't. However Detroit/Chicago both proved that you don't need elite goaltenders to win the cup. It helps, however if there's a strong team in front of them and they're decent, you should be fine. Spending less on your goaltending also gives you more money to spend up front.
Dude, no just no. The Wings won ONE Cup in spite of Osgood, the first one. The rest you just weren't paying attention if you couldn't see that he brings it in the playoffs. That's such a fallacy around here. The Hawks were the only team that legitimately won with so-so goaltending, and they only did it against another team with so-so goaltending. History completely contradicts that you can go on the cheap in goal.

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06-04-2012, 12:14 PM
  #105
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What were Conklin and Garon making when they were with the Penguins? 1m?

With a cap of nearly 70m going off the assumption that the cba doesn't change that, since anything can happen, it seems like a recipe for success.

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06-04-2012, 12:14 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
This is dumb. Fleury was great last season...but extremely overworked and it showed in the playoffs. Goldfish brains around here forget that he was a workhorse for big chunks of the year and only remember the first round of the playoffs where he was admittedly brutal.
I agree with you that people shouldn't say Fleury is done,but this is also the reason why I like the move. Vokoun can give Fleury the time he needs during the season to fully be rested. Then we can get that regular season #29 in the postseason. That would be lights out.

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06-04-2012, 12:15 PM
  #107
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Love the signing. As far as MAF goes......there's no way he gets traded. Keep one thing in mind, Alan Walsh is an agent for both MAF and Vokoun. There's a slim chance he negotiated a starting job for a Vokoun over his more expensive and more profitable client, MAF.

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06-04-2012, 12:15 PM
  #108
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the penguins had the 4th fewest shots against per game last season. So if anything it was more the team that carried Fleury.

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06-04-2012, 12:16 PM
  #109
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Ugene: I don't think it's overpayment really. Two years ago he was making $6M. He basically go low-balled by the Crapitals. I think $2M at his age with his pedigree, is reasonable. Vokoun is still a very good goaltender.

I believe if you get him in the 35 GP range, you're going to get #1 quality goaltending out of the guy from your backup, and you'll probably get better results from Fleury as well. We all have to think of it in terms of totals. $7M for 2G. Whether it's 3.5 apiece or 5 and 2 is really not relevant. All that's relevant is, do we have the depth to handle a bad goalie injury and to get through the spring and playoffs with the G talent you have, without over-playing your starter. The answer is now yes.

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06-04-2012, 12:16 PM
  #110
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this is something nice to wake up to.


Last edited by Crafton: 06-04-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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06-04-2012, 12:16 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
Exactly. He was outstanding all season...was him and geno that carried us and as soon as the d system and pk sucks balls, its all fleurys fault.

Being a member of this fanbase blows sometimes
I agree on these points whilst saying Fleury needed to steal some games, and he has, but not to a degree that other top goaltenders have.

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06-04-2012, 12:18 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Control Denied View Post
the penguins had the 4th fewest shots against per game last season. So if anything it was more the team that carried Fleury.
I'll take 10 quality chances over 30 shots any day. Shots =/= quality chances. Defensive zone breakdowns were the issue.

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06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #113
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To those worried about the cap hit, remember that the cap is looking like it's going up A LOT. So it really isn't too bad.

I like the move. Takes some games off of Flower so he's good to go in the playoffs.

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06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I don't think it's overpayment really. Two years ago he was making $6M. He basically go low-balled by the Crapitals. I think $2M at his age with his pedigree, is reasonable. Vokoun is still a very good goaltender.

I believe if you get him in the 35 GP range, you're going to get #1 quality goaltending out of the guy from your backup, and you'll probably get better results from Fleury as well. You have to think of it in terms of totals. $7M for 2G. Whether it's 3.5 apiece or 5 and 2 is really not relevant. All that's relevant is, do you have the depth to handle a bad goalie injury and to get through the spring and playoffs with the G talent you have. The answer is now yes.
I don't think many are arguing his value as to arguing the value of signing a BACKUP GOALTENDER to that kind of contract. He's well worth the term and cap hit if we had a guy making a bit less in front of him.

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06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Control Denied View Post
the penguins had the 4th fewest shots against per game last season. So if anything it was more the team that carried Fleury.
Not all shots are created equal.

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06-04-2012, 12:21 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Control Denied View Post
the penguins had the 4th fewest shots against per game last season. So if anything it was more the team that carried Fleury.
When the other team's players can waltz into the slot, they are going to score more often.

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06-04-2012, 12:21 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Control Denied View Post
the penguins had the 4th fewest shots against per game last season. So if anything it was more the team that carried Fleury.
and the 42 wins are also because of the players. Nothing to do with Fleury

Fleury was the 12th most busy in terms of shots on

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06-04-2012, 12:21 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I don't think many are arguing his value as to arguing the value of signing a BACKUP GOALTENDER to that kind of contract. He's well worth the term and cap hit if we had a guy making a bit less in front of him.
I understand the sentiment but you're never going to get perfect cap-balance up and down your roster. I think of all the half-assed backups we might've ended up with, look at this and say "I Trust in Ray." This makes our team better without a doubt, and if we cut Martin loose for a tougher D or replace him with Despres or Morrow, we're better still IMO. Naturally everyone will freak if we have another playoff implosion, saying this cost us the ability to sign [this year's Ray Whitney]... but on balance it's a great move.

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06-04-2012, 12:26 PM
  #119
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It seems this is a warning to MAF. Vokoun is too old to replace Fleury, but reliable enough to relieve him if neccesary. I like Fleury, he's a great guy, humble and it seems he doesn't suffer from a lack of motivation. Problem is he has been a big factor in the failures of the past three years. I won't fault him for the tampa series, because of all the injuries and the fact that he didn't **** the bed completely. However, the Montreal and Flyers series ended in disappointment partly because of his play.

The Montreal series was largely on Fleury's head. Yes, Halak was good, but it doesn't help when your goalie lets in one ubersoft goal in almost every game. In the Flyers series our entire team seemed lost at times, but Fleury did absolutely nothing to right the ship. Giroux, Briere & co are skilled players for sure, yet why do they always seem to score so easily on MAF?

Shero has been a very good GM over the past few years. He's not one to shy away from hard decisions. The signing of Vokoun is probably the final warning to MAF. He will get enough rest (his play was stellar during most of last season), but this time he has to be worth his paycheck in the playoffs (if we make it). Our window of opportunity is closing (albeit slowly), but MAF needs to let his talent speak when it matters most. I sincerely hope he succeeds and I'm positive that this signing will affect his play in a good way.

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06-04-2012, 12:27 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I understand the sentiment but you're never going to get perfect cap-balance up and down your roster. I think of all the half-assed backups we might've ended up with, look at this and say "I Trust in Ray." This makes our team better without a doubt, and if we cut Martin loose for a tougher D or replace him with Despres or Morrow, we're better still IMO. Naturally everyone will freak if we have another playoff implosion, saying this cost us the ability to sign [this year's Ray Whitney]... but on balance it's a great move.
I agree to a point, and I'm not worried on the forward front, they need a defensive unit that's balanced more. The forwards will do their damage well enough.

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06-04-2012, 12:27 PM
  #121
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Ugene: I don't think it's overpayment really. Two years ago he was making $6M. He basically go low-balled by the Crapitals. I think $2M at his age with his pedigree, is reasonable. Vokoun is still a very good goaltender.
In a vacuum, no, it's not an overpayment. $2M per year is a fair price for Tomas Vokoun. Contextually, I'm just not thrilled with spending $7M total on goaltending, especially with critical contract negotiations with Crosby, Malkin and Staal needing to be completed during these two years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
To those worried about the cap hit, remember that the cap is looking like it's going up A LOT. So it really isn't too bad.
Unless the new CBA changes how the upper limit is calculated, which is a distinct possibility. Plus, the owners are going to try to decrease the percentage of hockey-related revenues allocated to the players. Under the current CBA, that would decrease the cap ceiling at the same time.

Of course, Shero and the front office have a much better idea of how things might play out with all of that. So that's something to consider on the positive side.

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06-04-2012, 12:28 PM
  #122
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Someone on Facebook said we traded Martin and a 7th for Vokoun Honestly though, the more I think about this move, the more I love it. Seems a little bit expensive for a backup goalie, but this gives us one of the better backups in the league and should give Flower some rest.

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06-04-2012, 12:29 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I'll take 10 quality chances over 30 shots any day. Shots =/= quality chances. Defensive zone breakdowns were the issue.
Yes the penguins give up the 4th fewest shots, but yet somehow they give up more quality scoring chances than other teams. Seems like a strange strategy.

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06-04-2012, 12:32 PM
  #124
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I wouldn't be worried about Crosby, Malkin, and Staal. Shero will find a way to make that work out. We have some contracts we can rid ourselves of to make room. Hell just trade TK and replace him with Tangradi, or Jeffrey and you almost have your cap space for Vokoun (the difference in $$$ between TK and those two). That's not even taking into account trading any of the defensemen (considering we have a lot of very promising prospects).

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06-04-2012, 12:37 PM
  #125
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Hey guys just a few things I picked up on Vokoun...

1. Has a tendency to play very well, but then let in a soft, deflating goal.
2. Stares down his teammates after every single goal.
3. Can look shaky in net, which spikes the nerves, but he is usually very good.
4. He plays much better when he is the starter. He was lights out when he was the starter (which he was for most of the year) but for some portions of the season, it was probably close to 50/50 between he and Neuvirth, and he really struggled during those times, so I honestly don't know how he'd do in a backup role.

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