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The Official Offseason Thread (Part III) - Is it TC yet?!

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06-04-2012, 06:05 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Sorry but we won't really know what the Rangers will give up for Radulov until they actually trade for him. What we have so far is nothing but speculation.
I'm simply using logic. Sather isn't a dumbass.

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06-04-2012, 06:07 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
Read what he said more closely. He isn't comparing Radulov to Crosby/Giroux/Malkin, he's saying that's the style game Radulov plays. Radulov creates open ice with ease, he's the kind of guy that you rely on to have a successful breakout or make something happen in the offensive zone.

Guys like Parise don't do that as effectively. Neither does Gaborik. They both score lots of goals, but they're a different dynamic of a scorer.
Ugh. Thank you.

Is reading comprehension not taught in schools anymore? I have to oversimplify everything I write to preemptively avoid the wild misconstruction of my words. It's exhausting.

As you said, I was merely showing that Radulov is a guy who has the puck a lot, and creates chances with his puck handling, shiftiness, dukes, speed, and vision. Whereas someone like Parise, or even Gaborik does not hold the puck for very long. They get it and shoot it or move it quickly and then get open.

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06-04-2012, 06:08 PM
  #178
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Did you have someone in mind who will be available a year from now that would justify us biding our time? Otherwise, our window is now open and we should be going for it...as long as it's not gutting the team. If Parise is available you get him. Nash is still a concern for me because of the assets he will cost and his inflated cap hit. But
One of the big UFAs in 2013. Some of them are certain to sign beforehand, but at least 1-2 should be available: Crosby (unlikely), Iginla, Perry, Getzlaf, and Staal being the biggest names.

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06-04-2012, 06:08 PM
  #179
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Do you think Semin in a one year contract could work? Might want to show what he's worth fir a better long term contract by putting up numbers to make up for his lackluster regular season and that he wasn't being protected by playing with Backstrom and AO all these years. I was impressed with his two way play in the playoffs and could be a short term stop gag.

Rangers could afford to pay a large sum for this season coming up and would be off the books when the Rangers big players need to be reupped next summer.

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06-04-2012, 06:09 PM
  #180
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With all due respect to everyone here who I am sure know a lot more hockey then me, but how do people continuously keep putting Hagelin on the top line? I missed one game all year and it was the first game against the Bruins, and Hagelin looks like a very good third line player. I am not comfortable with someone who scored 0 goals in the playoffs on my first line.

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06-04-2012, 06:10 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
Read what he said more closely. He isn't comparing Radulov to Crosby/Giroux/Malkin, he's saying that's the style game Radulov plays. Radulov creates open ice with ease, he's the kind of guy that you rely on to have a successful breakout or make something happen in the offensive zone.

Guys like Parise don't do that as effectively. Neither does Gaborik. They both score lots of goals, but they're a different dynamic of a scorer.
Yeah he is--he said that Radulov belonged with the first group which is a huge reach. Radulov might be more like Kovalev than Zherdev or somewhere in between. What makes guys like Crosby, Giroux and Malkin special is not just consistency but a kind of will to take over any particular game they play in. They are unique. Players don't reach their level unless and until they start controlling outcomes.

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06-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
With all due respect to everyone here who I am sure know a lot more hockey then me, but how do people continuously keep putting Hagelin on the top line? I missed one game all year and it was the first game against the Bruins, and Hagelin looks like a very good third line player. I am not comfortable with someone who scored 0 goals in the playoffs on my first line.
I agree with you completely. Coming into this season, Hagelin projected as a great third liner. He's shown that he has more offensive potential, but it's far from a foregone conclusion that the offense remains going forward.

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06-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
With all due respect to everyone here who I am sure know a lot more hockey then me, but how do people continuously keep putting Hagelin on the top line? I missed one game all year and it was the first game against the Bruins, and Hagelin looks like a very good third line player. I am not comfortable with someone who scored 0 goals in the playoffs on my first line.
Lol read my post on the last page on putting Hagelin on a third line w Anisimov and Callahan.

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06-04-2012, 06:13 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Yeah he is--he said that Radulov belonged with the first group which is a huge reach. Radulov might be more like Kovalev than Zherdev or somewhere in between. What makes guys like Crosby, Giroux and Malkin special is not just consistency but a kind of will to take over any particular game they play in. They are unique. Players don't reach their level unless and until they start controlling outcomes.
Are you serious?

I think you need to read it for a third time.

I listed the TYPES OF PLAYERS who are CATALYSTS and those who are not. I used the top players in the game as a reference point because everyone knows those players and how they play.

Radulov is a CATALYST. He fits into the top group because he's a CATALYST. It doesn't mean he's in the same tier as Crosby in terms of how good he is.

Stamkos is 10000x better than Radulov, but he's not a catalyst. He's the guy who finishes the play. He's a goal scorer.

Do you see the difference? My goodness.

How would your claim make any sense anyway if Stamkos (arguably the best player in the game) was in the second group?

Come on. Please use some common sense here. I'm writing in the same language that you are.

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06-04-2012, 06:14 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
I'm simply using logic. Sather isn't a dumbass.
I didn't say Sather was a dumbass. That doesn't mean he's incapable of doing dumb things. There's this idea often perpetuated here that he wins all his trades. He's won a lot of them but he's lost a few as well--and his UFA signings have often not worked out well. His record pre-lockout was not good. IMO he's lucky he survived. He's done a good job since--for the most part.

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06-04-2012, 06:21 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
One of the big UFAs in 2013. Some of them are certain to sign beforehand, but at least 1-2 should be available: Crosby (unlikely), Iginla, Perry, Getzlaf, and Staal being the biggest names.
Some big names but a lot of question marks. Can't see Crosby happening (as you stated.) Iginla will be 36 so I'm not really interested in going that route unless it's a 1 or 2 year deal for a reasonable cap hit. But regardless, he wouldn't be a core player. As for Perry and Getzlaf indications are that they will be re-signed. And that leaves Staal who we would probably all love to have. I'm sure Pittsburgh would prefer to re-sign him, but I have no idea what their cap situation is or will be.

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06-04-2012, 06:22 PM
  #187
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I would expect Staal to be traded before he's let walk. I wouldn't even be at all surprised to see him traded before next season.

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06-04-2012, 06:22 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
With all due respect to everyone here who I am sure know a lot more hockey then me, but how do people continuously keep putting Hagelin on the top line? I missed one game all year and it was the first game against the Bruins, and Hagelin looks like a very good third line player. I am not comfortable with someone who scored 0 goals in the playoffs on my first line.
When you lack top 6 players you have to try and fit bottom 6 guys in as best you can. But no, Carl should not be on the top line.

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06-04-2012, 06:22 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Ugh. Thank you.

Is reading comprehension not taught in schools anymore? I have to oversimplify everything I write to preemptively avoid the wild misconstruction of my words. It's exhausting.

As you said, I was merely showing that Radulov is a guy who has the puck a lot, and creates chances with his puck handling, shiftiness, dukes, speed, and vision. Whereas someone like Parise, or even Gaborik does not hold the puck for very long. They get it and shoot it or move it quickly and then get open.
Let's forget the KHL ****. Larger rinks--the quality of competition is not quite the same. So his last full season was 07-08? And what do you take from that? Did you watch the playoffs? That's more like what it's like right now than 3-4 years ago. You got to fight to get open. Smaller ice surfaces and a lot quicker reaction time to make plays. Shiftiness, vision and puck handling go only so far. And Radulov didn't exactly play all that well in the playoffs. You've got to grit it out no matter how much skill you have. NHL is tight especially in the East. What actually do you know about reading comprehension? Like 'read your mind' comprehension? Don't worry about me--maybe you should learn to write with a little more attention to what you're trying to say.

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06-04-2012, 06:27 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Yeah he is--he said that Radulov belonged with the first group which is a huge reach. Radulov might be more like Kovalev than Zherdev or somewhere in between. What makes guys like Crosby, Giroux and Malkin special is not just consistency but a kind of will to take over any particular game they play in. They are unique. Players don't reach their level unless and until they start controlling outcomes.
Dude, that's not what he said. He said Radulov plays a similar style of game as those players. Radulov has incredible offensive creativity. He's a poor man's version of those players. That is not the same thing as saying Radulov = Crosby.

Parise is an excellent player, but he isn't tremendously creative. He's a more offensively gifted version of Callahan. That's always a nice thing to have, but this team is desperately lacking in the offensive creativity department. How often do you see our stints of offensive possession end in cycling in down low for a minute without getting a high quality shot off?

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06-04-2012, 06:37 PM
  #191
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The problem with the Rangers is they have people who can score goals (callahan had almost 30, richards can score, hagelin can score at times, etc), but they only have one goal scorer (gaborik). They have guys like Hagelin, Callahan (who don't get me wrong I love) on their top and 2nd lines, and I actually think both are more suited for the 3rd line. Hagelin for sure, you can make a case on Callahan.

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06-04-2012, 06:38 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
Dude, that's not what he said. He said Radulov plays a similar style of game as those players. Radulov has incredible offensive creativity. He's a poor man's version of those players. That is not the same thing as saying Radulov = Crosby.
Radulov's style isn't even close to Crosby, Malkin, or Giroux.

All of those players are equally adept passers as they are finishers. They can work behind the net, the half boards, and even the point. That is not Radulov's game.

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06-04-2012, 06:42 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Radulov's style isn't even close to Crosby, Malkin, or Giroux.

All of those players are equally adept passers as they are finishers. They can work behind the net, the half boards, and even the point. That is not Radulov's game.
Explain what you think Radulov's game is then. Because I have a feeling we've watched different players.

Oh, and by the way... I don't think Radulov's better than Parise. But with this team, at this stage in it's development, I'd rather have Radulov.

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06-04-2012, 06:42 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Find me the post where anyone said Radulov was better than Parise. It didn't happen.

What was said was that Radulov is a better FIT than Parise for the NY Rangers, because we have guys who play Parise's hard nosed game. What we don't have is a guy who can create chances every time he has the puck. Radulov had outstanding hands and feet. Radulov would help make our attack much more complete / well-rounded. Parise makes us a better team overall, but our offense is still as one-dimensional as it was this year. Lacking creativity. Lots of hard workers who will cycle endlessly and hope to get a bad angle shot on goal.
Your "logic" makes me laugh again - if the salary cap hit and trade cost were not an issue all thirty NHL GMs would have taken Parise over Radulov in a heartbeat but apparently not you. Parise redundant - haha.

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06-04-2012, 06:44 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Radulov's style isn't even close to Crosby, Malkin, or Giroux.

All of those players are equally adept passers as they are finishers. They can work behind the net, the half boards, and even the point. That is not Radulov's game.
You clearly know nothing about Radulov's game.

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06-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #196
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Explain what you think Radulov's game is then. Because I have a feeling we've watched different players.
Lethal finish and hands. Can work the puck through the neutral zone with ease with quick feet and great stickhandling. Can create space for himself in the offensive zone effortlessly when his motor is going. He can work the puck in the offensive zone, but is not an elite passer/playmaker the way those aforementioned players are.

And I am talking about Radulov in the NHL. All I've seen of his work in the KHL is youtube clips and that doesn't hold a ton of weight for me.

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06-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #197
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There is a lot of talk out of Pitt about Staal being moved this off-season for defensive help.

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06-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #198
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You clearly know nothing about Radulov's game.
Ah the old, "but...you're wrong!" counter argument.

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06-04-2012, 06:51 PM
  #199
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This team needs a third line RW badly. At least for the beginning of the year, getting Nash, Radulov, Ryan or anyone else isn't going to address the gap between Callahan and Prust. Potentially, Chris Thomas or anyother prospect could. However, it's still a pretty big hole at the moment.
What about someone like PA Paranteau? I'd be curious to see him on a line with Hagelin and maybe Anisiomov centering.

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06-04-2012, 06:51 PM
  #200
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Lethal finish and hands. Can work the puck through the neutral zone with ease. Can create space for himself in the offensive zone effortlessly when his motor is going. Can work the puck in the offensive zone, but is not an elite passer/playmaker the way those aforementioned players are.

And I am talking about Radulov in the NHL. All I've seen of his work in the KHL is youtube clips and that doesn't hold a ton of weight for me.
Yeah, I think he creates space for both himself and for others. He's actually a very similar player to Rangers-era Jagr. I said this earlier. Obviously, Jagr was better at protecting the puck, but the same type of puck controlling forecheck, as opposed to a grinding forecheck. Jagr was obviously the more talented player too. I'm just saying, stylistically in the offensive zone they're very similar players. I think he's got better vision and passing than you are giving him credit for. There's a reason why he had triple the number of assists as goals a couple of years back. He's not a goalscorer primarily. He's not a playmaker primarily either. He's a lot of both.

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